I know people have differing opinions on spiral vs mastery approach but I will say this about mus. The students I know who have used mus can do math problems given to them from other books. When I was using other stuff (Horizon, Singapore, etc) I found that my daughter could only do the problems in the book and when presented with anything else had no clue what to do. When we switched to MUS she not only learned her facts but started to really comprehend the concepts behind the problems which translated to any problem she encountered. She does the Singapore workbook for fun a few days but she wasn't learning the concepts from singapore.

:iagree:HWOT pre-k book is a great start. It probably won't take you the whole year to go through it but I thought it was great. I tried all kinds of stuff before discovering it and the name was very appropriate because we went from tears to loving handwriting. Although the multi-sensory stuff they sell is cool if budget is an issue I wouldn't worry about buying anything other than the workbook...and possibly the Get Set for School CD with the handwriting songs on it. It really lightened things up for my daughter and she enjoyed it.

mathusee is the best program i've found that is designed to make sure children know the facts. I tried flash cards, songs, games, singapore, etc but my daughter didn't really learn her facts until we started MUS. I started after we finished 2 other programs where she didn't learn facts so I didn't want to re-buy a whole additional years curriculum so I just bought an old mus vcr tape of ebay to go with the blocks I ordered off ebay. She learned all the facts in a few weeks. MUS teaches children to do the problem on paper, in their head and to understand when to use a particular operation (i.e. word problems where they decide whether to add, subtract or multiply) I also introduces algebra from the very first level in a non-threatening manner.

:iagree:with the fact that you shouldn't have to change books just because of the first few chapters. I would add that being on the young earth side I find I often have issues with material in textbooks or non-fiction books at the library and I use those as opportunities to discuss our beliefs with my daughter. It's rare to find a curriculum that lines up with anyone's beliefs across the board and there's a lot of value in having a dialog with your child about the different theories that exist and why you believe a particular one.

Is it possible the issues are more with behavior than ability or the right curriculum? You might try focusing for a big on the character/behavior training instead of the content of the lessons. For example, give him clear instructions for what he needs to do and explain in the front end that you expect him to do it without grumbling or complaint which would certainly include whining (if you're a Bible teaching family Philippians 2:14). It's okay to ask for help if you need it but it's not okay to whine or have a bad attitude about work. I read a book once that referenced immediate first time obedience without delay, excuse or complaint and I think that's a good motto to try to get the kids to memorize. Once you've set the expectations then attach consistent punishment/consequences for not doing it. I saw someone posted the other day about running laps & I've read that physical activity is good for boys. I have a friend who assigns difficult household chores (like cleaning baseboards) that the kids really dislike. Also, loss of screen time, toys, etc. Is sounds like you believe the work isn't too difficult and you've already changed curriculum at his request once so I would just encourage you to stay strong and consistent in setting reasonable expectations and enforcing pre-defined punishment when he doesn't meet them. This is also a good time to remind yourself that if he was in school no one would be loving him enough to expend the time and energy required to figure out how to meet his educational, emotional and character development issues.

I can't answer your specific question because I didn't discover OPGTR until after my daughter was almost finished with ETC and could read but my daughter was getting frustrated and wanting to hurry up and read more "real books" so I found two things that helped. First, we got to a level in ETC that had silly sentences which she was motivated to read because they made her laugh (I don't have the books so I'm not sure what book # it was). You might try adding ETC books as a supplement. They only cost $6 or $7 and you don't need the teacher book. The second thing was I found a few phonetically controlled readers that had new words listed on the left side of the page and a short story on the right. It's been a while and I donated them so I can't remember the publisher but they really encouraged my daughter because she felt like she was reading a "real book". I found them at a local homeschool store. Unfortunately most librarians had no idea what I was talking about when I said I wanted phonetically controlled readers because of the whole system of saying a child reads on x level because they know/memorized x # of words. I never understood that concept. I don't want my daugher to be able to read 100 specific words, I just want her to be able to read!:001_smile:

After re-reading my post...just to be clear, I'm not implying you should do all that with a 5 year old! We started with just MUS, ETC & Bible then started slowly adding subjects (starting with history) as we developed our preferences on curriculum and my daughter's attention span. My point was just that you can pick what you like best in each area.

I consider myself to be classical in my homeschooling style...mostly. I've found that in some areas I more closely follow the WTM suggestions than others. I personally don't like the idea of a boxed curriculum. I looked at a lot of different things including MFW but eventually decided I wanted flexibility to move at different paces with different subjects as needed. In order to follow the model in the book we read a lot of real books and follow the 4 year cycle. I would say keep what you're happy with and make adjustments for the other areas. Maybe just buy the SOTW & activity guide to get started. Here's what I use for my classical but a little bit scattered approach:001_smile: Bible - she reads a daily proverb and works in a Kay Arthur Bible study book for kids Handwriting - HWOT for printing & cursive. Math - we use MUS and are currently on GAMMA (I didn't like Saxon or many of the other suggestions in the book. I understand there is a huge debate about spiral vs. mastery. I just figure we'll go through the MUS material quickly because she does seem to "master" the concepts she is learning and then we'll supplement with more challenging stuff later) Geography - we use Kathy Troxel geography songs & a globe and map SOTW - we get lots of library books to go with it and spent a lot of extra time the first year studying Egypt, Rome & Greece. Latin - Latin for Children from Classical Academic Press (we've completed Song School Latin & Prima Latina). We also do the Greek Alphabet Code Cracker from the same company. Language Arts - FLL 3 & WWE3 (I skipped FLL2 because I felt it was too much repetition), Spelling Workout, ETC book 8, MCT Sentence Island & Practice Island (we already finished Grammar Island and will cover Building Language & MOTH later) Science - Apologia Human Anatomy. We love the book and chose it to work with the 4 year cycle suggested in WTM. The content is great and I love the Creation Confirmation section in each chapter and the notebooks that go with it (Jr. & Regular). This is the subject that gets skipped a lot on busy weeks so we're not moving through this slower than the history cycle. I would say my approach is classical because I initially focused on making sure my daugher was a strong reader, learned how to learn, loved to read, etc. We read classic literature, follow a 4 year cycle for history & plan to cover it more in-depth the 2nd & 3rd go-round, we are studying Latin, & we spent extra time studying the Greek & Roman cultures.

My daughter is 6. I think 9 is probably a good age. It wasn't really that it was to difficult to understand or that she couldn't do it but with everything else we are doing I felt it took a little more of my time that we could devote to it this year. I chose the Kay Arthur books because she could go through them on her own and then we could just review it together. The Apologia book seemed to lend itself more to reading & discussing the material together. I didn't go through the whole book but for what it's worth I liked the examples I read.

My daughter was also an early reader. At 2 we watched the Leap Frog letter factory. By the time she was 3 we were already doing ETC for 5 to 15 minutes a day. Originally I bought Before the Code but quickly realized she was already past that. She also loved the Leap Frog Word Factory, Complex Word Factory & Storybook Factory. We didn't allow much TV for her but she did watch those DVD's. Because she was such a fast learner we finished at least 3 ETC books in about 1 year. Book 4 was a bit of a challenge because she was not interested in the concept of syllables but by that time she was already reading well. I didn't discover OPGTR until after we were past the point of needing it but looking at that material I could have started with her right when she turned 2. She already knew most of her letters and sounds but would have struggled with ETC at that time because of a lack of writing ability. Even at 3 that slowed us down a bit until we discovered HWOT for handwriting.

I'm not familiar with that science program but I use Apologia science and it has a lot of information in each chapter that relates scient to creations. Maybe you could check in to it as a supplement.

I bought it and really like it but decided my daughter wasn't ready for it so I didn't spend much time reviewing it yet. My initial impression was that it is very content rich and would stimulate a lot of discussion. I think with the age of your children it's probably a good fit. I went with Kay Arthur inductive Bible Studies for kids instead and will probably go back to the Apologia book in a few years.

I would say at least the school year. I think the actual lesson plans provided in either the book or notebook suggest 2 weeks per chapter & each book has 14 or 15 chapters. (My books are at my office so I'm going from memory). With an older child or a more organized parent that schedule probably works. As I confessed in another thread recently we often don't get to science because our schedule is pretty full and it's what gets skipped the most often. With that in mind, we've been working on it for a while and are only on chapter 5. I often split the notebook pages like crossword puzzles up in to 3 or 4 different days worth of stuff for dd because it's a lot of writing and really big words. We don't keep a typical schedule and I can't remember exactly when we started but I'm sure it's been the equivalent of a school year on the one book already.

It may just be a matter of letting their vocabulary and reading ability increase to a level that allows them to read a classic book with the same fluidity that they are able to read Magic Tree House which is easier to read. I was in the same situation with my dd but she eventually moved in to wanting to read things like Chronicles of Narnia & The Secret Garden. I discussed the idea of "unabridged" with her and started with things like Alice in Wonderland. She was resistant at first (especially when I suggested something that wasn't her idea) but has now started reading better quality books. My s-in-law pulled her kids out of school after attending public for k-3rd. Both her daughters hated reading & there idea of a good chapter book was an iCarly book that was basically a poor transcript of the show. Gradually over the last year they have shifted from hating reading to loving it and even enjoying Shakespeare. She started with fairy tales with fewer words and beautiful illustrations and is working up from there. Basically, the more you expose them to good literature I think the more they will begin to choose better books. Kind of like when you hear about people starting to go natural with their cooking and meal plans suddenly disliking junk food. Unfortunately personally I'm there with books but not junk food. Maybe one day....:)

I use Apologia for Astronomy & Human Anatomy & Physiology and like both. My daughter really enjoys it also.It is very content rich & decidedly Christian in the approach to Science. Every chapter has a "Creation Confirmation" section. My child is only 6 so we move through it a lot slower than the recommended schedule and I think there are sufficient experiments. Most of them just use items around the house or things that are easy to get which is good for me. If you use it I would suggest getting the notebook to go along with it. It includes crossword puzzles, questions that are similar to the WTM narration type questions in SOTW, mini-book activities, scripture copywork, etc.

We started SOTW a little before K age and went slow & did it over a 2 year period (basically from age 4 to 6. We spent a lot of time at the library, museums and studying Egypt & Greece. I think young children are naturally interested in both cultures and it's fun to learn so there's no reason to hold off. As a result of this my dd6 has become somewhat of an expert on Egyptian & Greek mythology. An unfortunate consequence of this for me is that she likes to be on daddy's team when we play wii Jeopardy and I lose a lot.:001_smile:

This is a little off topic but I was reading a book the other day and there was a section on work ethic. The author quoted a study comparing American math students and Korean math students. I can't remember what book it was or find the reference for the specific study details right now but the study of course indicated that the Korean students significantly out-performed the american students that were the same age. (middle school I think...) What was interesting to me was that they asked the same students whether or not they were good in math and the Americans said yes while the Koreans said no. The author theorized that we are better teachers of self-esteem than we are math and work ethic.

Thank you for the responses. I've sent an email to the group to get some additional information. I can't tell from the website whether it's a musical or not. This is a group mostly for kids I think and I've set expectations low for my daughter so I'm hoping she'll be okay. I don't think she would be upset about not being picked but she gets frustrated unless she has clear instructions for things so we might just go and watch the first time.

mathusee might have a video on their website about teaching place value. It's covered on almost all of their videos and it's the best method I've seen.

My s-in-law is taking the same approach outlined by M&M with her 4th & 5th graders she took out of public school last year. They did Alpha & Beta the first year and are planning to do at least Gamma & Delta this year possibly more. It totally eliminated the frustration for both her daughters and they are loving math now. There were several other threads the last few days about math that I commented on stating all the reasons why MUS is great whether the teacher is math inclined or not. I'm not sure how to quote another thread so I'll repeat my suggestion here. If you don't want to spend a lot of money some of the old mathusee vcr tapes can be found on ebay. I paid $10 bucks for one and used it to review addition facts right before starting Beta because I had already purchased multiple curriculums and didn't want to buy another one for review. You might look at the other threads for additional info.

Laughing at myself right now because I have no idea if it's a musical or not. I guess that would be good to know! On my way to do more research now!

After getting some advice earlier this month about letting dd6 participate in community theater I've done some research and found that our local group is auditioning for a Christmas play in a few weeks. Having never participated in drama as a child I would like some insight in to the process and how to prepare her for the audition. She hates being unprepared so I'm hesitant to just show up and wing it. I would like to be able to discuss the process with her before we arrive. Will she be expected to have something prepared or will they instruct her on what to do? How do I gently let someone know that even though she's six she can follow instructions, memorize things and read like an adult without coming across as overly-agressive? I don't really care if she gets a part but I just want this to be a positive first experience for her. I have no desire for her to be a star; but I'm pretty sure this is something she will be good at. If these questions seem silly it's because I have no idea what to expect. I was gifted but liked math & science more than language arts and played sports so I never explored drama or theater.

Last year I felt like we were very disorganized and I didn't have a good handle on what we were getting done each week. I'm trying something new this year and so far it seems to be working pretty good with dd6. At the beginning of the week I make a list of everything I want to get through for the week. This is language arts list: Spelling Workout - one lesson ETC book 8 (she probably doesn't need this but I figured we might as well finish series) MCT Practice Island - 1 - 3 sentences MCT Sentence Island - 1/2 a chapter Daily Grams Grammar 2 pages FLL - 2 to 3 lessons WWE - one lesson or "week" I don't really schedule any reading other than non-fiction for history because she reads a lot without being told. Our goal is to finish that list during the week but what is covered each day varies from week to week. We might get all ETC out of the way one day, do spelling & practice island the next and then do FLL & WWE together the third day, etc. I try to make sure we do something for language arts each day but we never get to everything in one day. What we get to most days: Bible, Math, at least one LA subject, Latin (at least practicing the chant for the week), Geography songs What we get to most weeks Greek alphabet, History, handwriting (also doing HWOT print & cursive at dd's request), Latin worksheets What we run out of time and hardly get to.... Science & Mindbenders. I'm trying to do better but these are the things that get skipped a lot!

I second the MUS idea. With the DVDs it can be done independantly by a good math student easily. Plus, as a person who is good in math I appreciate the insight provided on how to "think" about the problems correctly and at times in a unique way. For example, in the lastest lesson DD6 & I watched together multiplying 3 digit #'s by 2 digit #'s was covered in theory and then they provided 3 different options for how to work the problems. As a good math student I always hated it when I was forced to work a problem one way when my brain wanted to do it either in my head or another way. I would imagine your son will feel similar as he moves in to more advanced concepts.

It sounds like you have a great outline for starting and are probably overwhelmed with responses so I'll keep my suggestions short. I agree with the others who said start slow. Focus on making sure you cover essentials (reading, grammar, math, etc) at first and build up to incorporating other subjects as you move forward. I also think SOTW is great and you can supplement with lots of kindle books or library books. I find science is the most difficult for me to get to with dd6 but it's not because we don't love our books. We have Apologia for Human Anatomy & Physiology and Astronomy and they're both great. They are distinctly Christian and content rich. They can be used with any elementary age students and offer notebooks to accompany the book in two versions. Jr. Notebook with lots of coloring pages and easier crafts, etc and then a regular version which would be good for the older kids. Just like history, if you can combine the study for all ages instead of using 3 different curriculums it's a lot easier and more fun.