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#1 caedmyn

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 01:33 PM

I just need to vent for a minute.  I'm really, really frustrated by my 11 YO's complete and utter lack of attention to details and non-stop talking.  I don't know if it's the ADHD or dyslexia or some combination, but it is driving me batty.  She apparently didn't see one page of her math test yesterday, along with skipping an entire set of problems (1/3 of the page) on the 2nd page.  She regularly leaves some section of her schoolwork undone or only does some of her corrections after I check her work.  She is constantly tattling on her brothers or trying to convince me of the rightness of however she thinks things she be done and she will.not.shut.up.  She's not sassy but she just will not stop talking.  I have gotten extremely short with her lately because I just cannot take it anymore.  I've been trying to teach her how to carry on a polite conversation since she was about 6 to no avail...I can't even imagine how much worse this is going to get when she hits puberty and has attitude on top of no filter for her mouth.



#2 Plink

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 01:50 PM

Ugh.  It is the brain differences, and yes, it is extremely frustrating.  

 

I'm right there with you.


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#3 nature girl

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 02:02 PM

Yup, lack of attention to detail and non-stop talking is probably the ADHD. Leaving sections of her page undone could be boredom, she didn't do the problems because she couldn't get herself to focus on them, and then pretended not to have seen them.DD used to stop midway through math problems and fill her page with drawings of bugs, or turn all her zeros into cats. :) When someone with ADHD is bored, it's almost impossible for them to direct their attention.

 

For us, the "motor mouth" and inability to complete work, improved greatly with meds (although DD still loves to talk, and will tell anyone she meets her life story.) But she gets involved in whatever she's doing much more easily, and doesn't have as many disparate thoughts flooding her head and needing to get out, so the chatter/singing/babbling is greatly reduced. She also doesn't have to struggle to complete school work anymore, even if she finds it boring.

 

I think I remember you saying you're not ready to consider meds at this point, though. What worked for us--at least to some extent--before meds, was interrupting the work every few minutes with active play, or finding ways to make it into a game, like timing the work like a race, or turning it into a story. It added enough excitement that she was able to keep her mind on it. We only did math and writing, her least favorite subjects, for 15 minutes or less at a time. Setting a time-timer for 15 minutes helped, because she could look up periodically and see how much more time she'd have to suffer before she was done. I used to think of it like it might be to have a toothache...It feels unbearable, if we don't know how long it will last, but if we could see it would only last another 5 minutes it would be much easier to bear...


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#4 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 02:20 PM

Agreed.   This is the brain differences at play.  Her brain isn't processing one thought at a time, it is processing many times many thoughts at any one time.  To get through those math pages she has to constantly filter out all the zillions of other thoughts vying for her attention.  That is an exhausting processes.  At some point her brain loses track of which of those zillions of thoughts she was supposed to prioritize and it zooms off in another direction.  The talking is also because of those zillions of thoughts but also probably because she has not yet developed an inner voice.   Most of us have an inner voice for our thoughts.  Kids with ADHD often have no inner voice.  Their thoughts are automatically processed externally.  DS is like that.  It drives his father and sister bananas.  At 13 he is less constantly chatterboxy but he still talks a lot.  Since I like conversation it isn't like nails on a chalkboard to me but it is to DH and DD.  Unfortunately, because of that their relationship has been negatively affected.  Please, please, I know you are on overload but please don't blame your child.  This is not a character flaw.  She is not being deliberately disobedient.  She processes differently.  Just getting through her math pages, staying focused long enough to do so, is probably harder for her than it would be for you to run the Boston marathon.  It is EFFORT every single second to stay focused.  

 

:grouphug:

 

 


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#5 nature girl

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 02:36 PM

Agreed.   This is the brain differences at play.  Her brain isn't processing one thought at a time, it is processing many times many thoughts at any one time.  To get through those math pages she has to constantly filter out all the zillions of other thoughts vying for her attention.  That is an exhausting processes.  At some point her brain loses track of which of those zillions of thoughts she was supposed to prioritize and it zooms off in another direction.  The talking is also because of those zillions of thoughts but also probably because she has not yet developed an inner voice.   Most of us have an inner voice for our thoughts.  Kids with ADHD often have no inner voice.  Their thoughts are automatically processed externally.  DS is like that.  It drives his father and sister bananas.  At 13 he is less constantly chatterboxy but he still talks a lot.  Since I like conversation it isn't like nails on a chalkboard to me but it is to DH and DD.  Unfortunately, because of that their relationship has been negatively affected.  Please, please, I know you are on overload but please don't blame your child.  This is not a character flaw.  She is not being deliberately disobedient.  She processes differently.  Just getting through her math pages, staying focused long enough to do so, is probably harder for her than it would be for you to run the Boston marathon.  It is EFFORT every single second to stay focused.  

 

:grouphug:

 

 

Yes, exactly...I know how hard it is, I get exasperated internally more times than I can say. But it's helped so much being able to tell myself it's not HER, it's the ADHD acting this way, blaming the disorder so I don't look at behavior as a character flaw, laziness or stubbornness. It made me realize the effort it took to do the limited work she was able to do, probably fifty times harder for her than it would be for a neurotypical child, and appreciate how strong she was to be able to make herself focus for even a few minutes at a time.


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#6 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 03:00 PM

FWIW, while difficulty staying focused so as to complete tasks is obviously an issue, in my honest opinion the thing that can cause the most long term damage to a child dealing with ADHD is the emotional damage from how others react.  Self-esteem and ability to maintain healthy relationships with those around an ADHD kid can take a serious hit, especially as they get older and people's expectations shift.  An ADHD brain has strengths.  Unfortunately, the way our current academic culture is structured hits all their deficits and none of their strengths.  That includes their social skills. 

 

I have a very bright step-nephew with severe ADHD that has joined our family recently.  He is the youngest of his siblings.  His brain is always racing.  He has so many great ideas and plans and thoughts and talks all the time.  DS and I find him fascinating and we can talk with him for hours.  Unfortunately, constantly switching thoughts, constantly talking and talking and talking, struggling to stay on tasks that his brain has a hard time finding even remotely interesting, means he struggles daily to not only function in a world that does not support that type of brain processing and interaction but he struggles daily to keep healthy relationships with those around him.  

 

In other words, he is surrounded by a sea of rules his brain doesn't function well within and finds nearly impossible to follow from moment to moment.  Two of his siblings, some cousins, certain grandparents, kids at school, teachers at school, and one of his parents see him as exceedingly annoying and a brat and he gets yelled at a lot.  Even pinched for bad behavior.  He is an incredibly sweet kid, and all he wants is to fit in and get along.  He cares deeply about doing the right thing, is incredibly compassionate, wants so badly to be thought of as a good kid.  He tries SO HARD.  But he gets rejected often.  Not just daily.  While at school sometimes it is hourly.  Think about what that would do to your self esteem, especially as a child, if nearly every waking hour you were being yelled at, criticized, told to shut up, told to focus, told to stop goofing off, and you weren't trying to upset people at all.  You were putting in massive effort to behave the way everyone thinks you should behave.  Only you are fighting your own brain every second to try and achieve that goal.  

 

Recently some of the kids in our family were making wishes.  His wish?  To be less annoying so people would like him and he wouldn't make everyone mad all the time.  It was heartbreaking.  

 

I share this to say, I sympathize.  You have so much on your plate.  I send you hugs and hope.  And I ask you please, please to preserve your relationship with your daughter.  Whatever she may skip or miss or babble on about, try hard to remember she is a child and needs you.  She needs your love and support.  She needs you to help her to know that she is not a bad person and she is loved.

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:


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#7 kbutton

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:36 PM

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  It is very draining. 



#8 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:48 PM

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  It is very draining. 

Very.



#9 caedmyn

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 07:02 PM

Yes, I know.  I wish there was a patience pill for parents...I seriously have the patience of a gnat, which is not really a good thing when dealing with challenging children.


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#10 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 07:08 PM

Yes, I know.  I wish there was a patience pill for parents...I seriously have the patience of a gnat, which is not really a good thing when dealing with challenging children.

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:



#11 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 07:12 PM

One thing that helped here was keeping lessons very short and interspersing them with physical activity.  Also, me sitting nearby working on my things so when they finish things like math I am right there to quickly check.  If they are missing parts, then a quick chore and a glass of water or swinging outside for a bit usually helps with refocusing and finishing whatever was missed.  With CLE sometimes we would break math up into 3 20 minute lessons instead of sitting through something longer.



#12 caedmyn

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 08:07 PM

Is there some way to help an ADHD kid develop that inner voice or self talk or whatever it is called?

 



#13 Crimson Wife

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 08:27 PM

You have my sympathies about the non-stop chatter. If my DD is awake, she is talking. Sometimes makes me wonder why we spent so much time and effort helping her learn to talk :lol:

 

ADHD meds help with a lot of things but the chatter is not one of them. But in her case, it could be a "sensory seeking" thing associated with her autism.



#14 Plae2009

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 09:54 PM

Yes, I know. I wish there was a patience pill for parents...I seriously have the patience of a gnat, which is not really a good thing when dealing with challenging children.

Ya know, I used to have patience. I had so much patience. I taught special ed and had kids with pretty severe disabilities and behavior issues. Why is it so much harder when it is your own kids? I suppose being with my kids 24/7 has something to do with it.
Anyway, hugs to the OP and all those that need it. I feel your pain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by Plae2009, 16 May 2017 - 09:58 PM.


#15 Moved On

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 05:21 PM

Is there some way to help an ADHD kid develop that inner voice or self talk or whatever it is called?

What has helped here is mindfulness and I first had to start with me. Being more mindful myself, has helped my kids see in action how they could be responding and coping with situations that arise. Kids will model more what they see from us than what we tell them to do. This book was a tremendous help:

Mindful Parenting for ADHD: A Guide to Cultivating Calm, Reducing Stress, and Helping Children Thrive by Mark Bertin

https://www.amazon.c...enting for adhd

Hope you find the best solution for your family. It's hard, I know :grouphug: Even harder when you have several to look after, all very young!

Edited by Canadian Mom of 2, 17 May 2017 - 05:22 PM.

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#16 kbutton

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 09:08 PM

Is there some way to help an ADHD kid develop that inner voice or self talk or whatever it is called?

 

I think there are some strategies for that.

 

Peg Dawson has some highly recommended books, and I recently heard about a book called FLIPP the Switch or something like that. I didn't "get" that book as well as I did the other one; however, I did figure out that it would probably have strategies that are great for my younger son. Fortunately, I have a friend that seems to get the methods in that book, and I think she will explain them to me, lol!

 

But the Peg Dawson books really help you see the individual skills that need to develop. 



#17 Moved On

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:19 PM

deleted


Edited by Moved On, 13 August 2017 - 08:13 PM.

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#18 Jennifer-72

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:25 PM

I think there are some strategies for that.

Peg Dawson has some highly recommended books, and I recently heard about a book called FLIPP the Switch or something like that. I didn't "get" that book as well as I did the other one; however, I did figure out that it would probably have strategies that are great for my younger son. Fortunately, I have a friend that seems to get the methods in that book, and I think she will explain them to me, lol!

But the Peg Dawson books really help you see the individual skills that need to develop.


I will second these suggestions. I really like FLIPP and have been using the ideas for a while with my son with some success.

#19 Moved On

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:25 PM

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Edited by Moved On, 13 August 2017 - 08:12 PM.


#20 Moved On

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 10:30 PM

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Edited by Moved On, 13 August 2017 - 08:12 PM.


#21 Moved On

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 11:23 PM

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Edited by Moved On, 13 August 2017 - 08:12 PM.


#22 caedmyn

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 08:30 AM

Smart but Scattered has been quite helpful for her but I don't remember it covering conversational skills or self-talk.  Not sure the other suggestions do either from reading the descriptions but I'll see if I can get them through ILL.  I can't remember if I've read that Mindful Parenting book before.



#23 Moved On

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:13 AM

Smart but Scattered has been quite helpful for her but I don't remember it covering conversational skills or self-talk. Not sure the other suggestions do either from reading the descriptions but I'll see if I can get them through ILL. I can't remember if I've read that Mindful Parenting book before.

A quote from Mindful Parenting:
"Helping Your Child with Information Management The mental ability to sort through, organize, and manage information depends on executive function, as does the ability to take what we’ve learned and efficiently use it in problem solving, conversation, or writing. Even holding on to short-term requests relies on strong information management, so for children with ADHD, follow-through on both requests and classroom learning may be challenging. Here are a few tips to help your child with information management:"

Note, I have my own opinions about certain things when it concerns the psyche and I use resources as tools, which is why I rarely use guides with step-by-step instructions. I read resources from psychologists whose opinions agree with my own and I adapt resources to my values and philosophy.

You can pull what you are looking for out of the Mindful Parenting book but you have to apply the strategies to yourself first, before guiding your child.

Hope you find what works best for you!

Edited by Canadian Mom of 2, 18 May 2017 - 09:13 AM.


#24 Jennifer-72

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:46 PM

Smart but Scattered has been quite helpful for her but I don't remember it covering conversational skills or self-talk. Not sure the other suggestions do either from reading the descriptions but I'll see if I can get them through ILL. I can't remember if I've read that Mindful Parenting book before.


Well since I come at this from having a child with ASD, my thought when reading about the problem you are encountering is that I would use the narrative process called SOARR that is outlined in the FLIPP book. Not sure for your purposes it would be worth buying, but maybe you can get it from the library?

#25 Jennifer-72

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:56 PM

Meant to add, do you think part of the trouble could lie not so much with her conversations skills but with her problem solving and overall flexible thinking? Not that I am expecting you to answer, Just thinking it may help to look for tools that support those areas and see if you make any headway.

#26 Moved On

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:36 PM

Caedmyn, from your original post:

She apparently didn't see one page of her math test yesterday, along with skipping an entire set of problems (1/3 of the page) on the 2nd page. She regularly leaves some section of her schoolwork undone or only does some of her corrections after I check her work.


I believe some of the further recommendations you got were based on this. From what I can recall, you do not have any official diagnoses for dyslexia or ADHD, am I right? I believe people are trying to help you based on your descriptions. At least I know I was!

#27 Jennifer-72

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:48 PM

Caedmyn, from your original post:


I believe some of the further recommendations you got were based on this. From what I can recall, you do not have any official diagnoses for dyslexia or ADHD, am I right? I believe people are trying to help you based on your descriptions. At least I know I was!


Just to be clear, my posts were not based on the above.

#28 Moved On

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 07:06 PM

Just to be clear, my posts were not based on the above.


It was a general comment, not specific to anyone. My first recommendation (Mindful Parenting) was not based on that either.

#29 caedmyn

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:47 PM

Meant to add, do you think part of the trouble could lie not so much with her conversations skills but with her problem solving and overall flexible thinking? Not that I am expecting you to answer, Just thinking it may help to look for tools that support those areas and see if you make any headway.

 

Hmmm...lack of flexible thinking could be it.  I'll have to think about that.



#30 caedmyn

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 09:49 PM

No official diagnosis.  I was just thinking about the conversation part, not the forgetfulness part when I answered.  Sorry.  



#31 Moved On

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 10:05 PM

No official diagnosis. I was just thinking about the conversation part, not the forgetfulness part when I answered. Sorry.


No worries :) Just trying to determine what might be most helpful to you based on what you are looking to accomplish. All kids' needs are different, as is what we as parents feel is best for them and our family ;)

Edited by Canadian Mom of 2, 18 May 2017 - 10:06 PM.


#32 kbutton

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 12:58 PM

I am glad to hear the book is working for someone. It's on my To Order list. Yay!

 

 


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