Pre-calf. What do you recommend?

[Queserasera]

For s student that is so-so with math? He has hated Saxon, life of Fred, and teaching textbooks if that helps. Lol

Derek Owens looks good but it is pricy each month!! Are the videos only available with the monthly fee?

[maize]

Ah, pre-calc.

 

I was wondering what a pre-calf was :)

 

(I do most of my posting from a phone so I am well aware that typos and autocorrect errors are frequent; not pointing a finger, just laughing cause it is funny)

 

Hopefully others will chime in with actual useful information :)

Edited March 17, 2017 by maize

[Queserasera]

Ugh. Lol!

[JoJosMom]

*snort*  I was going to say "lots of hay and moo-moo prenatals," but I guess that's not much help...

[JoJosMom]

I haven't used DO for math, but we've loved him for science.

 

There is a half-price option if you're able/willing to do the grading yourself.  Maybe that could be an option?

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Is dual enrollment an option? This worked well for my kids. They had solid math instruction, eased into college expectations and had people to use for college app recommendation letters.

[dereksurfs]

Our son is really enjoying Pre-Calculus at Wilson Hill Academy. We'll continue with them through AP Calc next year.

 

Our middle dd is taking Pre-A with Derek Owens and finds his teaching style very clear and understandable. I have heard about the half off if you do the grading yourself though its nice to have someone basically take of everything for you too.  Keep in mind that with DO the max you will pay is 9 months per course even if it takes longer. Plus if your student works faster it is less. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by dereksurfs

[...................]

happy cow and steer??

[...................]

We use DO for Pre Alg and we really, really love his teaching.  It's extremely careful, and thorough.

 

My son will continue with Saxon because he's doing well with that. 

 

But you could try DO for one month and then cancel if it's not for you.

[Liza Q]

I want to second Lial. My son had used TT, the Math Mammoth, then ALEKS in middle school and was not happy with any of them.He disliked math. Before 9th grade I ordered a few different texts and I had him compare Jacob's, Foerster's, Lial's, and Teaching Textbooks. He looked them over and told me that he liked how Lial's was set up, the explanations, etc.

 

He used the Algebra 1 with a little help from my husband and I.  He is taking the Alg 2 this year with Jann in TX's class (myhomeschoolmathclass) and will continue with Pre-Calculus with them. I believe that Lial's is not as rigorous as some of the other options, but it has worked well for my slow-and-steady son. He thinks it is very clear. And he no longer dislikes math!!!! He likes it enough to apply to a math camp for this August.

[MorningGlory]

This thread title is the absolute best! Thank you, Queserasera!!  :hurray:

 

**My older son took precalc with DO (perfect fit), and younger son will take it with Wilson Hill (needs more accountability and schedule). Younger son used Lial's for prealgebra, and it was excellent. I did not continue with Lial's because I already owned other texts for algebra and geometry. Lial's has humongous problem sets, so be aware that a student does not need to do every one of them! If I remember correctly, ds worked every third or sometimes even fourth problem. 

[OnMyOwn]

I want to second Lial. My son had used TT, the Math Mammoth, then ALEKS in middle school and was not happy with any of them.He disliked math. Before 9th grade I ordered a few different texts and I had him compare Jacob's, Foerster's, Lial's, and Teaching Textbooks. He looked them over and told me that he liked how Lial's was set up, the explanations, etc.

 

He used the Algebra 1 with a little help from my husband and I. He is taking the Alg 2 this year with Jann in TX's class (myhomeschoolmathclass) and will continue with Pre-Calculus with them. I believe that Lial's is not as rigorous as some of the other options, but it has worked well for my slow-and-steady son. He thinks it is very clear. And he no longer dislikes math!!!! He likes it enough to apply to a math camp for this August.

We love Lial's as well. My ds has used the alg 1, algebra 2 and is now using the pre-calc book. We've always utilized the dvd lectures but they were harder to find for the pre-calc level. I actually had to go with a dvd-rom, which will only work on the computer and I could only get them to work on my mac. I wonder if the e-text has embedded video? It's an expensive book, but still cheaper than many classes. I like doing math at our own pace. We can do more problems, add in review, or speed up/slow down as needed.

 

I'm using DO precalculus with my dd and I use the self-grading half price option, which I actually prefer. I like to be able to check her work as she is doing it or immediately after she has completed it. My dd switched from Saxon to DO and this has led to a much higher conceptual understanding. I know many do well with Saxon, but I found that by the end of algebra II, my dd was able to crank out the calculations, but hadn't really grasped why she was doing them. Some of that may be because that is the one year I let her do math completely independently and she was skipping the dvds and "skimming" the lesson. Even so, she went from taking 2-3 hours a day by the end of the Saxon 2 book, to an hour, hour and a half with DO. The switch was worth it for that alone.

 

The one thing that I really like better about DO than Lial's is that DO makes a point of focusing on the graphical representations of equations which leads to a better understanding of what the equations mean. Lial's does mention this and even has a chart of how the different types of equations are represented, but there isn't much focus on it. I try to bring that in whenever possible.

[dereksurfs]

I'm using DO precalculus with my dd and I use the self-grading half price option, which I actually prefer. I like to be able to check her work as she is doing it or immediately after she has completed it. My dd switched from Saxon to DO and this has led to a much higher conceptual understanding. I know many do well with Saxon, but I found that by the end of algebra II, my dd was able to crank out the calculations, but hadn't really grasped why she was doing them. Some of that may be because that is the one year I let her do math completely independently and she was skipping the dvds and "skimming" the lesson. Even so, she went from taking 2-3 hours a day by the end of the Saxon 2 book, to an hour, hour and a half with DO. The switch was worth it for that alone.

 

 

OnMyOwn,

 

Can you share a bit more about the self grading option? Would someone who is rusty in the subject matter have difficulty with it in your opinion? Are there fully worked out solutions provided or just the final answers? Would Derek Owens still be available for follow-up questions if the student needed clarification or elaboration?

 

Thanks,

[...................]

The whole beauty of DO is that he grades it! I would say it is not worth the money you'd save to grade pre-calculus, which is not easy math to grade.  I am grading Algebra 2 right now and there are so many ways in which a student is almost correct, and knowing where they went wrong is not easy.  Also, there is more than one or two ways to get the correct answers, and often more than one way to show a correct answer.  I honestly do not recommend grading it yourself if you have the option of grading :)

[JoJosMom]

The whole beauty of DO is that he grades it! I would say it is not worth the money you'd save to grade pre-calculus, which is not easy math to grade.  I am grading Algebra 2 right now and there are so many ways in which a student is almost correct, and knowing where they went wrong is not easy.  Also, there is more than one or two ways to get the correct answers, and often more than one way to show a correct answer.  I honestly do not recommend grading it yourself if you have the option of grading :)

 

This would be me!  We're using AoPS for math, but DO is my next go-to should we want/need a change.  I would be entirely incapable of handling the grading well, but there are quite a few moms (and a few dads!) who could.

[TracyP]

happy cow and steer??

That happy cow will want a bull. ;)

[HollyDay]

Oldest used and like Lial's.  She hated most math (and still does) so the fact she liked Lials says a lot.  I did get the dvds and that was a significant help.  I think the fact that Lials has so many real world word problems made the difference.  The word problems allowed her to see why and how the math was used in daily, routine situations.  It opened her eyes to the usefullness and practicality of math, not the theoretical.

 

Youngest liked Math U See.  She was not a big MUS person until Pre-Calc.  She didn't like the mastery approach, wanted different topics.  By the way, she didn't like Saxon either.  But, she really liked MUS Pre-Calc.  She had many "aha" moments and said all the pieces were finally starting to come together.  I think the MUS approach was good for her at that stage.  She could fill in any gaps she had as well as put concepts together. 

Edited March 18, 2017 by HollyDay

[OnMyOwn]

OnMyOwn,

 

Can you share a bit more about the self grading option? Would someone who is rusty in the subject matter have difficulty with it in your opinion? Are there fully worked out solutions provided or just the final answers? Would Derek Owens still be available for follow-up questions if the student needed clarification or elaboration?

 

Thanks,

I didn't have any trouble grading anything in DO's for the levels we've used (algebra 2 & precalc) for my dd and I'm sure I could have easily graded anything in his algebra 1 level and I'm no math expert. I've have sat next to my kids and watched the instruction with them over the years, so I have do have a decent understanding of math, but I'm not sure that would matter at all. He gives full solutions and it has all been very straightforward. Derek has told me to contact him with any questions and I have once or twice. I would feel a little uncomfortable if I was asking lots of questions at half price, but that may just be me.:). We may use him for calculus and, if we do, I was thinking of doing the full price option just so I would feel 100% comfortable with my dd asking as many questions as she wants. And so she could ask him for a recommendation. If we go that route, I will still ask for the solutions, though, so we can check her work right away.

 

ETA: Calming Tea reminded me that grading hasn't been as straightforward 100% of the time with the precalculus, but it still hasn't been an issue for us. See my reply to her below.

Edited March 18, 2017 by OnMyOwn

[OnMyOwn]

The whole beauty of DO is that he grades it! I would say it is not worth the money you'd save to grade pre-calculus, which is not easy math to grade. I am grading Algebra 2 right now and there are so many ways in which a student is almost correct, and knowing where they went wrong is not easy. Also, there is more than one or two ways to get the correct answers, and often more than one way to show a correct answer. I honestly do not recommend grading it yourself if you have the option of grading :)

Now that you say this, I guess we have had a couple of times where my dd did something differently than DO has in precalculus and I wasn't sure if she did it right. But it has only happened a couple of times and she felt she completely understood why he did what he did when I showed her his solution and she felt confident enough in her solution, that I felt fine about it. This was not an issue for us at all in algebra 2 and I can't imagine it would have been for algebra 1.

 

Having DO doing the grading is nice, I'm sure, but my kids and I are so used to checking each answer right after it's done, I'd have a hard time giving that up. I feel like there are huge benefits in giving them that instant feedback.

[dereksurfs]

Now that you say this, I guess we have had a couple of times where my dd did something differently than DO has in precalculus and I wasn't sure if she did it right. But it has only happened a couple of times and she felt she completely understood why he did what he did when I showed her his solution and she felt confident enough in her solution, that I felt fine about it. This was not an issue for us at all in algebra 2 and I can't imagine it would have been for algebra 1.

 

Having DO doing the grading is nice, I'm sure, but my kids and I are so used to checking each answer right after it's done, I'd have a hard time giving that up. I feel like there are huge benefits in giving them that instant feedback.

 

Thanks to both of you for sharing both sides of the coin. There is obviously value added as well as work to perform in doing the grading. When our son took AoPS Algebra 1 we had him essentially grade his own work using the solutions manual. And I know many parents will get the solutions manual and do the grading for a variety of other math texts (Forester, Dolciani, Lials, et al). So I am considering both options still. Obviously having everything taken care is nice. So its a definite trade off. But if you can do it and don't mind the extra work that's also a significant savings.

 

One last DO self grading question. What about the tests? Do you also grade those as well? I've notice he sometimes will give partial credit for certain test answers with explanations as to why. That has been very beneficial.

 

Thanks again,

Edited March 19, 2017 by dereksurfs

[OnMyOwn]

 

One last DO self grading question. What about the tests? Do you also grade those as well? I've notice he sometimes will give partial credit for certain test answers with explanations as to why. That has been very beneficial.

 

Thanks again,

Yes, I grade the tests as well. I give partial credit if the entire problem was set up correctly and the student clearly knows what they were doing, but made a minor calculation error. The other time I give partial credit is if, for example, three answers were supposed to be given for a problem and only one or two were actually given or correct. I don't know how that compares with what Derek does.