Writing programs....with dyslexic, dysgraphic boys

[MisH]

If anyone has any experience with either of these, I'd love some input!

 

DS1 (nearly 10) is in the middle of Barton level 5 and DS2 (age 8) is in Barton level 4 (during which we repeat/stick with each lesson until he "gets it"....this level is just so stinkin' difficult!)

 

I have had them do copywork, but have not addressed "writing" (as in, composition) thus far (or at least, not "formally"!)

 

Now, though, I am debating between IEW (institute for excellence in writing http://iew.com/ ) and Here to Help Learning (http://heretohelplearning.com/). I have researched IEW alot and know it is a great program with many people who love it. I saw Here to Help Learning at our recent local Homeschool Convention/Conference and it looks promising - and entertaining (a big bonus for my boys). For what it's worth, I went to the convention expecting that I would leave there with the IEW products I had planned to purchase there....but, then saw the Here to Help Learning booth. Talked to the person there (the husband/owner) and watched some of the video stuff. Then, I wasn't sure which one might be a better fit for us!?! (grrrrr.....sometimes too many choices just makes homeschooling life more difficult ;) )

 

 

[Julie of KY]

My oldest is dyslexic and severely dysgraphic. He started with IEW in elementary and it was good in that it gave him structure and he was totally lost without the structure, but his writing remained very weak and continues to be very difficult.

 

We started using Bravewriter when he was a 9th grader and it was tremendous for his writing. They taught him to write with his voice and every class moved him tremendously along in writing ability. They took him wherever he was and moved him along. It was amazing. He still has great difficulty writing, but is able to write a college level paper. His dysgraphia is severe enough to warrant college board accommodations which will continue into college.

 

My younger kids who are still doing Barton have started using Bravewriter techniques at home and have done a few online classes as well. Bravewriter is certainly not for everyone, but it has helped tremendously at my home with my smart kids with learning disabilities.

[MisH]

I've not heard of Bravewriter! Will certainly be looking into it!!!

[Julie of KY]

Brave Writer and IEW are complete opposites by the way.

[MisH]

Julie of KY - can you expand on that comment a bit???? Opposites how?

[FairProspects]

I'm going to say that the Diana Hanbury King books and Verticy grammar and writing materials worked the best for us. The Singapore Sentences to Paragraphs books were very helpful as well. We started out with IEW in elementary also, and my older ds got the KWO down very well, but he just could not progress into longer paragraphs using the IEW system. After he had done a ton of one paragraph compositions, he begged to try a different approach. Using Verticy and Kidspiration, he finally was able to achieve a break through to multi-paragraph compositions. Now at 11, writing is still challenging, but he is actually a very competent writer as long as he is given enough time.

Edited May 17, 2016 by FairProspects

[PeterPan]

Well I haven't seen H2HL, but it looks cute.  It says there's a $6.99 monthly subscription option, so what you might do is try it, see what you think, see if your kids click with it.  If they get *frustrated* and can't do the tasks, then it's not working.  If the tasks are within reach, then you're golden.  IEW is a known quantity and something you can always go to later if you decide this isn't enough.

 

My ds has those labels, but he has more things making his writing challenging.  For him, we are working through an autism-specific program.  I think you can never have TOO MUCH of being comfortable getting out your thoughts.  And whether that's Bravewriter or writing prompts or word/language based games (Dixit, etc. etc.), retelling stories (IEW Fables, Writing Tales, narrations and book reports), etc., you just can't do too much of it. This prompt book is good  Unjournaling $14.95 ADD TO CART  Also the daily writing prompts in the Jump In tm are really, really good.  Listography would be cute for that age.  Are you doing summer reading?  Are they going to do any book projects?  We're getting my ds started on the How to Report on Books series, but the Mrs. Renz book projects are WONDERFUL and perfect for the ages of your kids.  Google to find them.  She was Disney teacher of the year and all her stuff is amazing!  

 

Your kids might have writing they are passionate about.  My dd did recipe writing at that age.  If they have something they're into that has an online writing possibility (a forum, posting articles, a blog, whatever), that can be good.  

 

If you do H2HL, let us know what it's like!  :)

Edited May 17, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Heathermomster]

My oldest is dyslexic and severely dysgraphic. He started with IEW in elementary and it was good in that it gave him structure and he was totally lost without the structure, but his writing remained very weak and continues to be very difficult.

 

We started using Bravewriter when he was a 9th grader and it was tremendous for his writing. They taught him to write with his voice and every class moved him tremendously along in writing ability. They took him wherever he was and moved him along. It was amazing. He still has great difficulty writing, but is able to write a college level paper. His dysgraphia is severe enough to warrant college board accommodations which will continue into college.

 

My younger kids who are still doing Barton have started using Bravewriter techniques at home and have done a few online classes as well. Bravewriter is certainly not for everyone, but it has helped tremendously at my home with my smart kids with learning disabilities.

So which program of Bravewriter did he start with as a 9th grader?

 

I look at the website and can never determine placement.

[PeterPan]

:)

Edited May 18, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[Julie of KY]

So which program of Bravewriter did he start with as a 9th grader?

 

I look at the website and can never determine placement.

 

My severely dysgraphic 9th grader (very gifted, but writing at mid-elementary level) started Brave Writer in 9th grade with Kidswriter Basic and also did Just So Stories. He did LOTS of freewrites as a family with everyone writing about a prompt for 5 minutes and then the option of sharing. (lots of fun)

 

In 10th grade, he did Kidswrite Intermediate and Expository Essay. Every week of class, his writing improved. He also did one personal essay with a BW private tutor that year and one month of Boomerang.

 

This year he did MLA research essay through BW. This spring the research paper that he turned in for an outside class to a college professor got a 100%! and this teacher is not known as an easy grader. I wanted to do a literary class this year, but chose not to.

 

Every dysgraphic student is different. This boy has severe problems both with the physical act of handwriting as well as formulating ideas into words. It doesn't help much for him to dictate to me now since it is still such a struggle to come up with words. Testing a few years ago put all his writing skills at a 1st grade level (the same year he won a 4 year college scholarship for math). Recent testing places his writing on a college level, but at a 5th grade speed.

 

Brave Writer has helped so much with funneling his ideas into words and asking the questions to bring more substance into his writing. BW in no way is formulaic or "tells" you what to write. His writing is unmistakably HIS. The online teachers have been fantastic resources for helping him along the way.

 

I used IEW for many years. It was a great place for me to start as "I" had no idea how to teach writing to this boy. It was very formulaic - use this outline, this many sentences, use these dress-ups in each paragraph, etc. It was like asking a set of questions, coming up with the answers and writing it down according to the IEW formula. He could do it as he was very analytical in nature, but if asked to do something outside of IEW like write 3 sentences about yourself - he had NO idea where to start. (Our years of IEW were all by dictation as he still couldn't physically write).

 

I've had another child start with Kidswrite Intermediate as an 8th grader, and my daughter who is severely dyslexic and has writing issues has done several high school fiction writing classes this year as a 7th grader though with me as the scribe. She is full of words, but has trouble actually getting them on paper - very different from my oldest.

 

My little guy just did Story Switcheroo which was fantastic as we haven't worked much on the writing side of things as he still can't read.

 

I think placement in BW classes depends very much on the child, but don't be afraid to put a struggling writer in an easier class if needed. My oldest says he still doesn't like to write, but if he has to he'd rather do it the Brave Writer way. I also think there are many ways to teach writing to any student, but this is what has worked at my home. I originally thought I might be able to teach from some of the BW pdfs (which are very well written), but I can't give good feedback to my kids and I find the feedback from the BW teachers to be priceless (and expensive) - worth every penny to me.

 

 

Edited to say - I tried to start with the Writer's Jungle (pdf) - it is great, but without the teacher feedback. I ended up in Kidswriter Basic which is the online class of the Writer's Jungle and the feedback was great. I tried again to teach from Help for High School, which is the pdf of Kidswriter Int. and Expository Essay. Again I abandoned it and chose the online class. These pdfs are well-written with clear instructions and good examples. The Help for High School is almost exactly the high school classes. What is missing is the teacher feedback which is what helped my students so much.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Julie of KY

[PeterPan]

Julie, so you're saying you used BW *classes*, not the printed materials?  

[Julie of KY]

I guess I was editing as you were asking the question. See my edit for the answer to your question.

[KathyBC]

If anyone has any experience with either of these, I'd love some input!

 

DS1 (nearly 10) is in the middle of Barton level 5 and DS2 (age 8) is in Barton level 4 (during which we repeat/stick with each lesson until he "gets it"....this level is just so stinkin' difficult!)

 

I have had them do copywork, but have not addressed "writing" (as in, composition) thus far (or at least, not "formally"!)

 

Now, though, I am debating between IEW (institute for excellence in writing http://iew.com/ ) and Here to Help Learning (http://heretohelplearning.com/). I have researched IEW alot and know it is a great program with many people who love it. I saw Here to Help Learning at our recent local Homeschool Convention/Conference and it looks promising - and entertaining (a big bonus for my boys). For what it's worth, I went to the convention expecting that I would leave there with the IEW products I had planned to purchase there....but, then saw the Here to Help Learning booth. Talked to the person there (the husband/owner) and watched some of the video stuff. Then, I wasn't sure which one might be a better fit for us!?! (grrrrr.....sometimes too many choices just makes homeschooling life more difficult ;) )

What IEW product are you thinking of purchasing?

[PeterPan]

Julie, thanks for sharing your experiences with the classes!  You always leave me brave to try new things. Maybe someday we'll be at that point with my ds.  We aren't now, but maybe someday.   :)

Edited May 18, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[FairProspects]

Fwiw, we did not like the BW class we took much at all. The instructors were very encouraging, and I loved that aspect, but I felt like I didn't learn anything new and it didn't help me teach writing any better, nor did ds write any more than he normally does. I guess we were doing well enough with Inspiration as an organizer and on our own with the Landmark materials that BW didn't add much at all for us. But every family and child is different, even within the dyslexia/dysgraphia diagnosis.

[Julie of KY]

 But every family and child is different, even within the dyslexia/dysgraphia diagnosis.

 

I so completely agree. Every child is different all with their own strengths. As teachers we all have different teaching styles. And what works for one family might just be because the time was right for that child and not at all due to the curriculum.

 

BW matches my style as a teacher and has produced results. We've also had some fun with it. Therefore I'm not going to fix what's not broken. Lots of kids are wonderful writers with no formal program - just mom. I do believe that reading, copywork, narration, and free-writing are all helpful in the process of teaching writing.

 

OhE - I always learn a lot from you and others as well. Our journeys are all different - some with different goals, but we can all support each other and learn from each other.

[Heathermomster]

My severely dysgraphic 9th grader (very gifted, but writing at mid-elementary level) started Brave Writer in 9th grade with Kidswriter Basic and also did Just So Stories. He did LOTS of freewrites as a family with everyone writing about a prompt for 5 minutes and then the option of sharing. (lots of fun)

 

In 10th grade, he did Kidswrite Intermediate and Expository Essay. Every week of class, his writing improved. He also did one personal essay with a BW private tutor that year and one month of Boomerang.

 

This year he did MLA research essay through BW. This spring the research paper that he turned in for an outside class to a college professor got a 100%! and this teacher is not known as an easy grader. I wanted to do a literary class this year, but chose not to.

 

Every dysgraphic student is different. This boy has severe problems both with the physical act of handwriting as well as formulating ideas into words. It doesn't help much for him to dictate to me now since it is still such a struggle to come up with words. Testing a few years ago put all his writing skills at a 1st grade level (the same year he won a 4 year college scholarship for math). Recent testing places his writing on a college level, but at a 5th grade speed.

 

Brave Writer has helped so much with funneling his ideas into words and asking the questions to bring more substance into his writing. BW in no way is formulaic or "tells" you what to write. His writing is unmistakably HIS. The online teachers have been fantastic resources for helping him along the way.

 

I used IEW for many years. It was a great place for me to start as "I" had no idea how to teach writing to this boy. It was very formulaic - use this outline, this many sentences, use these dress-ups in each paragraph, etc. It was like asking a set of questions, coming up with the answers and writing it down according to the IEW formula. He could do it as he was very analytical in nature, but if asked to do something outside of IEW like write 3 sentences about yourself - he had NO idea where to start. (Our years of IEW were all by dictation as he still couldn't physically write).

 

I've had another child start with Kidswrite Intermediate as an 8th grader, and my daughter who is severely dyslexic and has writing issues has done several high school fiction writing classes this year as a 7th grader though with me as the scribe. She is full of words, but has trouble actually getting them on paper - very different from my oldest.

 

My little guy just did Story Switcheroo which was fantastic as we haven't worked much on the writing side of things as he still can't read.

 

I think placement in BW classes depends very much on the child, but don't be afraid to put a struggling writer in an easier class if needed. My oldest says he still doesn't like to write, but if he has to he'd rather do it the Brave Writer way. I also think there are many ways to teach writing to any student, but this is what has worked at my home. I originally thought I might be able to teach from some of the BW pdfs (which are very well written), but I can't give good feedback to my kids and I find the feedback from the BW teachers to be priceless (and expensive) - worth every penny to me.

 

 

Edited to say - I tried to start with the Writer's Jungle (pdf) - it is great, but without the teacher feedback. I ended up in Kidswriter Basic which is the online class of the Writer's Jungle and the feedback was great. I tried again to teach from Help for High School, which is the pdf of Kidswriter Int. and Expository Essay. Again I abandoned it and chose the online class. These pdfs are well-written with clear instructions and good examples. The Help for High School is almost exactly the high school classes. What is missing is the teacher feedback which is what helped my students so much.

Thank-for answering that!  

 

DS used IEW for two years because it was taught by an OG/IEW certified instructor.  I am not a fan of IEW, but son learned to write paragraphs.  The dress-ups make my stomach turn, but I understand they have a purpose.  A friend of mine's DD attends college, and a prof marked one paper down because of the dress-ups.  I was persuaded to try some level C Intensive materials, and it's just more of the same.  I.can't.do.it.  I need to mail the materials back and get a refund.   

 

I will look into the Help for High School and the Expository online class for the teacher feedback.

 

[Mom-ninja.]

I was just coming here to ask about writing and I saw this thread. We are using IEW and it has gotten him writing paragraphs, and he's gotten farther than when we used WWS. Yet, his writing is just not good. He is no where near high school level let alone college level and he's almost 10th grade. Perhaps I will look at BW classes. 

 

Has anyone done the WTM writing classes? 

[mamamoose]

I have a dd who is not dyslexic, and I'd it helps put it in perspective at all, she's not great at paragraphs yet either. I also have a dyslexic 8 year old son, and I'm just not too worried yet about his writing. I am going to use classical compositions with dd10 this coming year. We tried write shop this year and everyone loved it but me. Lol