Academic testing and establishing giftedness

[phathui5]

I've been thinking a lot lately about doing some sort of academic testing for my oldest. He's seven and has read the whole Harry Potter series and just finished Eragon. My feeling is that testing would give me a picture of where he is academically and help me find better materials to challenge him.

 

Where did you all go through for testing? What criteria do you use to determine giftedness? When a level was established, what kinds of materials did your children enjoy?

[purplecow7]

I never believed in defining my children by a number. With that said, our school system gives the NNAT and the cogAT in second grade and my son did the tests in about 15 minutes each and scored with the 92%. While this is a high score it did not qualify him for GT services in our PS. So we had him privately tested with the WISC IV - which he tested into the GT for public schools.

 

I guess what I am trying to say is that you need to look at the reason why you want the test. We are glad that we did test my oldest because now he has the opportunity for various other learning opportunities then he would not have with out the test done.

 

How I found pyschologies who give the test was I searched private schools websites that required testing for admission as they posted a list of DR. Our PS required that the test been given by a LI pyscologiest. The cost was around $500.

[JenneinCA]

Testing will NOT help you find materials to challenge him. The people who administer the tests are NOT aware of the materials available to home schoolers. They know about testing and little else.

 

We went to Gifted Development Center in Denver.

 

Our criteria were: totally flipped out by what my kids were doing and getting conflicting answers from the people around us. We tested in part to get third party to help us figure out what reality was.

 

When we found out the numbers... my kids enjoyed the same materials they had enjoyed the week before. They didn't change because we knew the numbers from a test. My daughter loved Redwall before the test. She loved it after. My son loved Roller Coaster Tycoon before the test. He loved it after the test.

 

I haven't found the numbers to be particularly helpful at all for figuring out what materials will work. Maybe it helped with figuring out that it was alright to skip already known material. But as to figuring out which math to use... I had to pick one I thought would work and give a placement test. And so on for other subjects. The tests just didn't help.

 

Good luck.

[saw]

testing really won't help you find materials to challenge your child. I found testing helpful to figure out ds, who is a very unusual child. We had ds, now 7, tested at 6 at the Gifted Development Center. They probably saved his life. He is very gifted and very learning disabled, in very weird ways. We knew something wasn't right with him, and the GDC reassured us that we were correct that he is bright and were able to refer us to places for further testing. He's still a mess, but we're on the right track with therapy etc. The test results are helpful to throw in the school's face when they pretend he's not that bright and when I insist on pulling him out for various therapies.

 

DDs, now 10, were tested last year by a psychologist whom I happened to interview as part of the process of searching for a tester for ds. I liked her so much I decided to have the girls tested (they had been tested at 3) just for the sake of having the info in my files for admission to various things. My dcs are (unfortunately) in school, and the girls' IQ scores were somewhat helpful in securing a grade skip.

 

I'm not sure I would have gone out of my way to have dds tested, because I already knew what I needed to know. Without reason to suspect something off, I wouldn't really be in favor of testing at all. Honestly, I would just put your dc in a good bookstore or a good educational toystore and see what he gravitates toward. Then encourage the interest on whatever level that may be.

[LisaKinVA]

I do all sorts of academic testing for my dc... well, once they reach a certain age, that is :D

 

If you are looking for an IQ test -- we went through Johns Hopkins in MD. Very good tester, very good program. It gave more affirmation to what I was seeing than shocking information I hadn't witnessed for myself already. I do feel that after the test I am more comfortable with the choices we've made -- and I have the paperwork to back me up when family skeptics question my methods. It was nice -- and even though not completely "necessary" for homeschooling, we do plan to have these tests for each of our children in order to get them into special programs we may want to pursue.

 

The most help for me, academically, has been taking the Iowa Test of Basic Skills (which you can administer yourself through Bob Jones University). It's relatively inexpensive, but can provide you with a good snapshot of where your child is performing relative to peers (or the grade level of work he's been doing).

 

I use this test every fall. I choose the level based upon the level of the majority of the work my children are doing. So if ds #1 is "doing" 9th grade reading, but 5th grade spelling, 4th grade writing, 5th grade history, math and science, he takes the 5th grade test. The result is DS will still ceiling the vocabulary and reading comprehension parts of the test, but I'll get a better feeling for how he's learning in his "weaker" areas -- which helps me make sure I don't miss things.

 

Unfortunately, no test I've ever used has helped me pinpoint materials that would be better for my ds. It's pretty much trial and error. I choose what I *think* will be best, and then have to work through whatever issues may arise -- even if that means ditching a method I prefer (such as using only real books for literature study versus a reader), for what works for ds.

 

Keeping my children challenged is a daily process. If a child is bored with math, I figure out why (turns out the materials that worked for dd in K are so repetitive now that the curriculum is pretty much useless... so I switched). My oldest LOVES science and history and is always begging for more. In some cases, we go deeper -- in some cases, I let him do multiple assignments. However, ds understands that he cannot progress in science beyond his math level (it would really be fine right now, but it would come back to bite him later).

 

Best wishes... on the incredible journey.

[Jenny in Florida]

We wanted to when our daughter was younger, mostly out of curiosity but also because we thought having "proof" might be of some help to her in the long run. Maybe in getting access to enrichment programs or even getting into college early . . .

 

But we could never afford to get good testing while she was still young enough to make it worthwhile. (With highly gifted kids, they tend to "outgrow" the children's versions of most IW tests by the time they're 10.) Fortunately, by that point she was capable of showing what she could do on plain old achievement testing. We did the CAT at home, used the results to enroll her in the Duke academic talent search, through which she took got access to out-of-level testing. Combined with her academic record (including courses with grading from outside agencies), those test scores got her everything that an IQ score would have provided.

 

We're taking more or less the same path with my son, although we're only in the first part just yet. He's done at-home testing (CAT and Iowa), which earned him enrollment in the Duke TIP. I plan to have him take the EXPLORE this year.

 

One thing I did find helpful was giving him the CogAT last year. I ordered it online and administered it at home, but the results were actually really helpful in figuring out a couple of big things I was doing "wrong" in terms of selecting curriculum and planning homeschool. Basically, the results offered a "profile" that compares the student's performance on the various subtests, which is what helped me to understand that my son needed a more narrative (story-telling) approach to certain subjects.

 

That was actually really helpful.

 

Otherwise, unless you have a kid whom you feel you're just not reaching--or you can afford to test for the sake of curiosity--I'm not sure private IQ testing is worth it.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I agree with those who said the testing wasn't so helpful in finding materials, etc. I had the results in hand, and was still afraid to go as far as I needed to go with dd. It was a personal journey I had to go through on my own, and am still going through to some extent. It was more about letting go and realizing that giving a 6 year old middle school level stuff was not going to interfere with her childhood, that pushing was only pushing if I were trying to force my dd to make unreasonable progress.

 

Out of level achievement testing has been more helpful as far as schooling then the WJ's we have had done professionally.

 

We had our testing done at the local university and it was done at a very affordable rate.

[Capt_Uhura]

LisaK in VA, can you tell me more about giving the Iowa Test through Bob Jones University? I confess I don't know anything about Bob Jones U.

 

thanks!

Capt_Uhura

[LisaKinVA]

http://www.bjupress.com/services/testing/

 

Here's the link to the testing services area. You have to fill out an application (one time only) to become a certified ITBS tester. As long as you have a Bachelor's degree, are or have been a certified teacher, or are or have been a full time K5-12 academic teacher, you can become authorized to administer the ITBS.

 

The cost of the test is between $35-$55 (depending upon what you choose). You order the test(s) at the level(s) you wish, complete them and send them back to BJU to be scored. You will receive the scores back in a few weeks (longer, if it's during prime testing time -- which is the spring).

 

As the administrator, you simply read the directions as instructed -- set the timer and collect the tests at the end. It's not difficult at all. HTH!

[EKS]

I went the testing route with my 12yo because he seemed very bright but also had major issues with learning. The testing was helpful but not as helpful as you might expect in finding appropriate materials for him.

 

My 6yo is (or seems to be, he has not been tested except for the ITBS where he scored at the 99th %ile across the board) more globally gifted. The most helpful thing I did with him, which I am certain helped more than getting a test score, was to order some K12 courses a year or two above his grade level and see how he did. Language arts is his particular strength and he placed into their 2nd grade course, so that's what we did. I found that the reading and grammar were easy, spelling was so-so, and writing was challenging. So with those months of experience with a real curriculum to go by I was able to confidently choose various materials in LA for this year that more closely matched his needs. So far he has been doing great with them.

[phathui5]

Has anyone used the Woodcock-Johnson Test of Achievement?

[EKS]

Yes--my 12yo was given the WJ-III both times he was given the WISC-IV. It gives some interesting information and is good because the questions go up to the adult level. But adult level is a bit misleading. At 9, my son scored at the adult level in math computation by being able to do simple "solve for x" type problems. So it seems to say more about the adults in the group the test was normed with than my son. But if I didn't know that, based on the test results I would have thought his math was far better than it was.

 

The WJ-III gives much more thorough and better information than a regular paper and pencil test because the ceiling is so high and there is one version for everybody all the way up to adults, which eliminates the problem of giving a single grade level test to a kid who is working at a 3rd grade level in language, a 5th grade level in reading, and a 7th grade level in math. Or whatever.

[LisaKinVA]

My oldest has had the Woodcock Johnson. It's an excellent test, I don't regret having my son take it as a part of the complete assessment at JHU -- but on a regular basis, I'd have to pay more to have it administered, and IMHO, doesn't tell me much more than doing the ITBS out of level.

 

I also agree with EKS -- using the placement tests at K12 is a pretty good overall test for LA placement -- keep in mind that it does take into account more than just reading level. My son reached a ceiling on the test because he didn't know literary terms.

 

We found similar things with the program. Writing very challenging, reading (text) easy, but the applications were more challenging (which is why I went with this approach), spelling, grammar and vocabulary waay easy.

 

If I were creating a program for my son in LA, I'd probably choose the lit one year ahead, writing at grade level, spelling, grammar & vocab at least 2 years ahead

[Donna]

I found the WJ results much more helpful than the IQ test results because they gave me an idea of where she was academically which was part of what I was looking for at the time since she was hop-skipping through everything I was trying to teach her. It helped give me the confidence I needed to give up on trying to teach everything in order grade by grade and allow her to fly through material following her interest and capabilities.

 

That being said...neither the IQ test or the achievement test (which I had done at JH) really told me who my dd was and what she was capable of or why she learned the way she did. Those were the answers I was really after because not only was she academically gifted but musically blowing everyone away. I received more answers talking to Dr.Ruf at Educational Options and found the personality testing (though initially I was going to blow it off) very helpful in explaining all my children's actions and behaviors. Dr. Ruf was able to answer some of my questions on why my dd had scored the way she did on the tests she had taken and also provided a lot of helpful websites and activity/curriculum ideas.

 

My boys have taken the out-of-level talent search testing through JH but I have not had them tested professionally basically because they were much more straightforward learners...I put the information out there and they learned it, quickly but in order, so I never felt like I was being left behind.

 

None of the testing provided information on the day to day learning like exactly what curriculum to teach (except that JH will encourage you to use their online courses... which were way out of my budget for 3 kids).

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Has anyone used the Woodcock-Johnson Test of Achievement?

 

Yes, it's okay. Your kid might test at a 6th grade level (example), but that doesn't mean he would do well on a 6th grade level EOG because the WJ does not ask as many kinds of questions at each level. I have found out of level grade level testing to be much more useful, but the WJ is a good instrument for obtaining a broad range of information.

[JoyfulMama]

I found the WJ results much more helpful than the IQ test results because they gave me an idea of where she was academically which was part of what I was looking for at the time since she was hop-skipping through everything I was trying to teach her. It helped give me the confidence I needed to give up on trying to teach everything in order grade by grade and allow her to fly through material following her interest and capabilities.

 

My older brother was IQ tested at an early age. He was enrolled in PS GT programs, but they still bored him. That being said, he has encouraged me to be less restrictive in my homeschooling, and to take my cues from my children - skip lessons when repetativeness isn't helpful, pay attention to my dc skills rather than grade/level recommendations of a manufacturer. (Which is why I also don't follow a written curriculum for every subject, as she was too stifled.)

He recently sent me an online clip of Gatto's statements that by age 8 or 9, a child can pretty much design their own curriculum. (My brother is by far our biggest supporter for homeschooling, outside our home.)

http://www.edflix.org/gatto.htm

[KAR120C]

Yes, it's okay. Your kid might test at a 6th grade level (example), but that doesn't mean he would do well on a 6th grade level EOG because the WJ does not ask as many kinds of questions at each level. I have found out of level grade level testing to be much more useful, but the WJ is a good instrument for obtaining a broad range of information.

 

We used the WJ (way back when it was the WJ-R! LOL) just once for a broad "scattershot" of where he was across a bunch of areas. It's an excellent test for that, because it splits everything into minute little details and subdetails, and the proctor can tell you precisely what went well and badly. But since then we've used out of level testing to get a better bead on things in general (and to meet the annual testing requirement for homeschooling in NC), and then curriculum-specific testing for placement.

 

Also, as someone else mentioned, once you get to the higher levels you really have to keep in mind that it's normed against the whole population of people that age, not just the college bound. So although there are questions up through trig and a tiny bit of calculus, you only really have mastered pretty basic algebra to score at the end of high school level... because across the spectrum of 18 year olds, apparently that's average. So again, curriculum-specific testing tells you a whole lot more.

 

I did find testing (WISC) generally helpful... but what was most helpful was finding that there was a significant discrepancy among different areas. Our tester was very helpful in explaining exactly how it might play out in "real life" and he was spot on with his recommendations. To that extent it probably relies more on the specific tester and his or her experience with a wide range of kids. But also "a number" doesn't tell you much of anything without taking into account a lot of other things. It can give you a hint, and sometimes explain something that seems "off" but isn't completely clear... but really your being there and paying attention is worth a lot more. I know bunches of kids who have similar scores to DS's, but their interests and personalities are so different... they really don't have a ton in common when it comes down to it.

[angela in ohio]

I have found academic testing incredibly valuable. It was receiving dd's first test that helped me realze WHY she hated math (I had her several grade levels too low, as I was going by her age.) It also gives me the freedom (imagined, but still needed, LOL) to put them where they need to be as opposed to constraining them with grade levels.

[Sarah CB]

Testing will NOT help you find materials to challenge him. The people who administer the tests are NOT aware of the materials available to home schoolers. They know about testing and little else.

 

We went to Gifted Development Center in Denver.

 

Our criteria were: totally flipped out by what my kids were doing and getting conflicting answers from the people around us. We tested in part to get third party to help us figure out what reality was.

 

When we found out the numbers... my kids enjoyed the same materials they had enjoyed the week before. They didn't change because we knew the numbers from a test. My daughter loved Redwall before the test. She loved it after. My son loved Roller Coaster Tycoon before the test. He loved it after the test.

 

I haven't found the numbers to be particularly helpful at all for figuring out what materials will work. Maybe it helped with figuring out that it was alright to skip already known material. But as to figuring out which math to use... I had to pick one I thought would work and give a placement test. And so on for other subjects. The tests just didn't help.

 

Good luck.

 

I agree that testing doesn't help. We had the WISC and the WIAT and all we got was data - no help at all. However, those results may help you open door later. I just applied to a gifted program for homeschoolers and I think we may be able to access some funding to pay for a math tutor/mentor for dd. The test results have definitely helped us in that regard.

 

The one test that did actually offer strategies and resource recommendations was the Structures of Intellect test.

 

The biggest advantage with SOI is that it doesn’t just give you the test results and then leave you to figure out how to develop a program to address learning needs. SOI provides booklets with specific exercises in them to address each developmental process that the tests pinpoint. So, if the child had trouble with short term memory, that child would complete the memory modules that would strengthen his memory. SOI also includes in the test results a list of games, activities, and exercises that the child can do for fun and for further development. And it gives advice on how to further develop areas of strength.

 

It's much more comprehensive than an IQ test and it gives a lot more information as to how to move forward.

 

If you need a number, take an IQ test. If you need some support and ideas, take the SOI test. And, especially, if you suspect a hidden learning issue, take the SOI test.