LIPS by Lindamood

[PeterPan]

Thankfully, I didn't have problems with my son's school until 5th grade. That year the school had a new elementary administrator with teachers she pulled from her former school. Oh, boy..That situation went south quickly. The gal didn't believe in accommodations. I was peeved at the time, but yanking DS from the classroom was such a BLESSING. Her attitude was the wake-up call that I needed to go about making serious course corrections wrt to son's education.

 

The LiPs class that I mentioned up thread was very expensive. Wilson tutors in my area will teach LiPs to students for a fee.

 

OhE, go as slow as you need for DS. He has to map the sounds to the letters. In previous threads, Geodob mentioned using pictures of objects to practice quickly grouping similar things. Over the weekend, I rediscovered a game we have called Spot It and I thought of you. A link follows:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Spot+it

Heather, I'm having a brain blip.  I have Spot It, but what are you saying to target when we use it?  Is there a way to work on letter-sound correspondence using Spot It?  Or you're just saying play it cuz it's high time?  :D  

 

And yes, I've eyed Spot It Jr for some time now, never splurged on it, and by the time I do I'll probably realize he's outgrown it, lol.

[Heathermomster]

Heather, I'm having a brain blip. I have Spot It, but what are you saying to target when we use it? Is there a way to work on letter-sound correspondence using Spot It? Or you're just saying play it cuz it's high time lol.

Yes, to both. ;)

 

I need to look up what geodob wrote specifically. My impression was that by practicing the grouping of different objects into specific sub-groups, you could improve sound-letter correspondence. To me, it seems like I Spot might help in the grouping department, and it is a game, which is always nice.

 

Give me some time, and I'll try to find specifally what geodob wrote...

[LaughingCat]

If he can do Spot It then you don't need Spot It Jr - the difference is less and bigger pictures.

 

[Heathermomster]

Here's the link.

 

Red highlighting is mine because I love that color...

 

Angela, you wrote: 'neurology department) showed "severely impaired" in most visual things like decoding and translating sound to the visual symbol) '.

Where this was most likely identified in the Rapid Naming test?

Though 'sound to visual' and visual to sound, doesn't involve decoding and translating from one to the other?

Rather, neural connections develop between the visual cortex and the auditory cortex.

So that an immediate connection between an image and sound of the word for it, is formed.

But the speed of the connection between the auditory and visual cortex, goes through a development process.

Which develops as a response to usage and exercising the connection.

Though this development can be disrupted, so that only a sluggish connection is developed.

Where the Rapid Naming test, will show sluggish naming.

 

While the Rapid Naming uses pictures, slowness with this, equally effects naming (sounding out) written words.

 

But most importantly, recently published research has shown that it can be improved, by directly exercising it.

Where the main tool used, are magazines with lots of photos.

Where things in the photos are pointed at, and then named.

The research has shown that regularly practicing this, will increase the speed of naming.

Where it has also shown this increase in the speed of naming pictures, carries over to sounding out written words.

 

Though it need to be practiced in a graduated process, which begins with categories.

As the brain doesn't just randomly store sounds and images?

Rather it forms categories, and then layers of sub-categories as a filing system.

So for example, under the animal category, is a dog category, where different breeds of dogs are stored, as visual images and names.

 

So that with exercises to increase Rapid Naming? It is best to begin with developing a rapid connection to the broader categories, and then progress through the layers of sub-categories.

 

Where the 'slow processing' could be rather viewed as 'slow finding'?

 

 

[Lecka]

My little son learns "classes" of words together, and they ask him "class" questions.  Like -- "tool" is a class, and includes hammer, saw, wrench, drill.  "Instrument" is a class and includes piano, guitar, and drum.  "Food" is a class.  "Breakfast foods" is a sub-class of foods.  Those are some he has done.

 

It is really helping him. 

 

There is a whole area of "feature, function, and class" that he is working on.  He has a goal to get up to 50 classes. 

 

 

 

 

[PeterPan]

My little son learns "classes" of words together, and they ask him "class" questions.  Like -- "tool" is a class, and includes hammer, saw, wrench, drill.  "Instrument" is a class and includes piano, guitar, and drum.  "Food" is a class.  "Breakfast foods" is a sub-class of foods.  Those are some he has done.

 

It is really helping him. 

 

There is a whole area of "feature, function, and class" that he is working on.  He has a goal to get up to 50 classes. 

Yup, this is what our SLP is looking at too.  She has some more language processing testing she wants to do (at $110 an hour for 4 hours!   :svengo: ) that will go into this.  She showed me the form, and indeed those categories and more are on there.  There were 5 or 6, and she said in the testing they go through words and elicit the categories of info for the words.  She seemed to imply it was sort of tedious and took a long time to work through, lol.  You know, duh, I could figure out the names of those categories and play with it myself.  Class makes sense to me and was the level I was thinking on.  Function and feature make sense after you think about it.  

 

 Well fascinating.  One more thing, lol.  I'm in the middle of The Great Cleaning Project, and after this week my life and house will be so spic and span, nothing will hold me back, right?   :thumbup:

 

PS.  Save me the extra step of pmailing you.  They use Webber cards to work on the ffc too?  Something else? :)

[Lecka]

To be positive -- if he is completing 4 hours of testing, he is at a high level.  Some kids are at a level where they do 1-2 hours of testing and find their level.

 

Oh -- I think it is a lot of home-made cards for ffc.  She makes cards for interests when she can.  Like -- my son really likes Halloween, so she does "holiday/special occasion" themes for him whenever she can, b/c then he will have better behavior.  Not everyone has to do the same themes. 

 

But some I think everyone does.  Like -- community helper like they do in pre-school, with doctor, dentist, firefighter, police officer. 

 

My son is in ABLLS now ---- it has a ton of sections of feature, function and class, and wh questions.  My son is not doing why yet -- he is doing the other wh questions.  For "where" he still has picture prompts (like -- 3 to 5 prompts like picture cards on the table, and the answer will be one of the pictures.)  He can do who and what and when with no prompts, for some questions. 

 

He is moving on in "what is silly" and "what is missing," it ends up in starting to make inferences (like -- a girl is crying, a bicycle is laying on its side ---- you are supposed to infer "she is crying because she fell off her bike").  He is moving towards that. 

 

I think the agency we are with charges $500 for an ABLLS assessment if it takes 4 hours or more, they have an hourly fee for less than 4 hours. 

 

There are a lot of sub-sections of ffc though -- I don't know all of them.  There is "reverse ffc" where they ask "what has a beak" and you say bird (I think that is right).  All kinds of things like that. 

 

I might ask what the difference is between the SLPs assessment and ABLLS.  My son is at a lower level ---- but ABLLS is broken down a lot better for him than the SLP assessment he had last year.  She only divided into expressive and receptive language, and there seemed like there were big gaps where kids are supposed to just "get there" without therapy really breaking it down.  ABLLS breaks things down into teeny tiny steps more, and it divides expressive language into functions of speech and whether or not a visual prompt is used (kind of).  A big thing of Verbal Behavior is that for some kids, they can use a word, expressively, to ask for something, but maybe not to label it.  Or they can label something, but not ask for it.  Or they can ask for something, but not repeat it.  Those are broken down separately. 

 

(Partly b/c a big problem with previous ABA practices was kids who could label but not request, b/c they were taught labeling but not taught requesting ---- and it does not automatically transfer, that if you can do one, you can do the other.  But that is for autism -- I think it may transfer easily for kids who do not have autism -- I really don't know.  I just know "transfer trials" are a thing for my son, to transfer a word from "labeling" to "requesting" and stuff.)

 

But also -- the SLP we were seeing last year I was not really impressed with.  Haven't been able to get my son into the speech clinic my older son went to.  And -- he is doing well with ABA, I am pleased with the language programs he does, very helpful for him.

 

(And actually -- I really, really liked VB-MAPP.  My son was in it before, now he just has a few goals left from VB-MAPP.  It was great for him.  I think it goes up to 48 months of age.... that is why he is moved into the ABLLS now.)

 

Edit:  her "occupation" cards are not home-made, but I don't know where they are from.  He is only labeling them right now -- not answering questions about them. I think!  I have not been observing all his sessions lately. 

 

I looked -- there are occupation cards on super duper, but I don't think they are the ones she uses.  Her "cook" picture has a man in a big chef's hat standing by a grill, holding a big spatula. (And if she is asking questions -- they would be like "what does a cook do?" and "who makes food" they are things like that for occupations -- but I am not sure if she is asking yet or just talking to them about them ---- but it is that kind of thing.)

[PeterPan]

Lecka, I think the amount of time on the testing was because she wanted to finish the verbal processing test (which has all those word categories to deal with, a huge page or two of them) AND do an auditory processing test.  I'm not sure we're going to do the testing.  She thinks he's in the normal range, and the cost just gets astronomical, by the time I drive that far, etc. etc.  Yes, you're correct, he's not on the spectrum (that we know) even though he has apraxia, so there's a lot of cover your butt testing and nuances and things that check to make sure they're ok that he might not have serious problems with.  It's just I think she goes through everything to make *sure* it's ok and make *sure* all the function is there.  However lexicon, word retrieval, these are apparently part of the apraxia by definition.  In the testing she did so far, I was listening in, and it was horrible.  He gets the concepts, but retrieving stuff is a lot of work.  You end up with his brain doing work arounds, and this takes a while.  So as a parent/teacher, I'm trying to make sure I'm doing what I can to get that easier so his writing is easier later.  As you say, he's going to be a lot higher functioning in these categories than someone with autism.  

 

You know, I think even that's not accurate.  Compared to what you're describing, I think the tasks seem to gel more quickly, nevertheless she has us working on them and checking them.  That would be accurate.  So she wanted us to work on wh words, but it has gelled pretty well in his mind without pull hair or needing overmuch work.  I say that, and sometimes he's still floozy or gives odd answers.  Dear, that may not even make sense.  I don't think these things are non-issues with him, or she wouldn't be telling us to work on them.  However they're not *severe* issues.  

 

She has worked with him since he was two, so when they test together she knows what will come if she gives him time.  When they test together, you see that.  She's trying to keep his attention, get him back on topic, wait for him to motor plan, etc.  It's sort of exasperating when you're paying for it, lol.  On the other hand, I think if she pushed faster, he would lock up and not show what is inside.  Barton had said (when I talked with her on the phone) to have the testing done by an apraxia expert, and I realized in hind site, duh, that's what she is, lol.  That's what she does all day, every day, apraxia and feeding disorders, more apraxia, more apraxia, so she's the ideal one to do it.  Our psych offered then to interpret results.  I'd love an IQ on him, etc., but honestly I'm not sure I could do more than I am.  I don't even do all I aspire to do, lol.  If I had more information, I'm not sure I could do more with it, kwim?  

 

Well thanks for explaining stuff.  I do appreciate it.  It helps me understand the *why* behind what she's doing.  She's very calm and reassuring, which is part of why she wanted to do the testing, to help *me* not worry.  But as a parent, you know how it is.   :)

[Lecka]

Apraxia-specific sounds good.

 

My son does not have apraxia ----- but language issues. 

 

He is like -- he consistently improves with practice, he consistently is able to answer.  If he is not answering, or answering slowly ----- it happens, and we look for an explanation ---- it may be "overload" or it may be "not motivated to answer."  I know the motivation can sound negative -- but it is not, really, b/c it is like -- look for and find something motivating, change the situation so it will be motivating.  It is not just "he is not motivated, so think that he doesn't care." 

 

But he has "fluency" goals to be able to respond to some things within 3 seconds.  He can get better with practice.  I am told, there is a little span of time, and in general life, if he doesn't answer in that time, people will have already moved on.  But -- it is reasonable, and I think for people with some other strengths, it doesn't matter as much.  But since he can do it with practice, we do try to get him to answer fluently. 

 

It sounds like -- it is harder for my son to grasp concepts and get to where he is able to respond ---- but he is able to respond fluently, he doesn't seem to have retrieval problems.  I think with him -- it is more like, he does not have a language framework much at all, his language framework is being built.  So he needs every teeny tiny bit.  He is picking some things up from the environment, he does pick up some words from the environment, but I don't think he has picked up many language concepts from the environment. 

 

He is learning some physical imitation skills from the environment now, and we have hope, a reasonable hope or even expectation, that he is going to get to a point for language, where he has enough language framework, to start picking up and filling in from the environment, not just from direct instruction.  We are seeing signs of it already.  He has picked up prepositions and pronouns pretty quickly -- this is really good for him.

 

My older son has some things where he just never gets faster, there is always that long pause, or sometimes there is not a pause, but sometimes there is..... I mainly see it with math facts now, but I did see it with letter sounds when he was younger, the freezing up and not thinking of what sound to start with when seeing a word, he is vastly better with letters now though.  Math facts not so much, though he has moments of getting them faster. 

 

I really do not see it with my younger son.  Not that he is 100% consistent, but he is pretty consistent, and it just does not seem the same.  With my older son -- he is trying hard! 

 

I do just think the ABLLS is good for doing every little tiny thing.  But -- I think that is different, if it is recall.  It is really not the same as just not knowing!   I also think, honestly, that there are ways that kids who do have autism can be poorly-served by general speech therapists.  I think there are ways kids can have gaps.  B/c -- they do need the direct instruction on some picky things, that are not always all included, when someone is not really tracking with autism goals.  I do think that.  But I also think -- my area is not the best for speech therapy and autism.  I have just not been impressed.  It is mainly two I have seen with my son -- and they seem willing to just be at a loss and not know what to do, they do not know how to break the steps down -- they are more used to kids who don't need the steps broken down, it is not their specialty.  Very frustrating. 

 

[PeterPan]

Because there's so much overlap with spectrum and apraxia, our therapist deals with a LOT of autism.  She knows how to do those detailed steps for the kids who need it and how to make sure they're taken care of for the kids who need less.  I'm really glad your dc is getting that care!!  :)

[Lecka]

The place I am so disappointed with -- is "supposed to" be an autism clinic that overlaps/coordinates services between OT and SLP.  They do have a BCBA now so hopefully it is really improved.  But by now I know several people who have pulled their kids similar-ish to mine. 

 

They actually did really well with some kids I would see in the waiting room, talk to parents, etc.  Just not really for my son.

 

It was pretty disappointing.

 

I doubt they would be any good for apraxia, either.

 

They seemed very good for children at a more "social skills" kind of level, which is important, too.  I just wish they would not bill themselves as autism when they are not really able to meet the needs of everyone. 

 

I am glad your therapist is good, too, though.  I am really in a position, locally, of kind-of being like "that place is not that good" sometimes, but they are very nice and their waiting room is lovely, very bright, the receptionist is friendly, etc.  They just do not have skills to work with some kids, and it is like "well he is not doing x" but they don't have a plan for what to do about it. 

 

Grrrrr. 

 

I would just hate for your son to have gaps!!!!!!!!!  It sounds like it is good, though, you know?  Just mentioning anyway.  It is interesting. 

[PeterPan]

Here's the link.

 

Red highlighting is mine because I love that color...

I'm just now realizing the brilliance of what you were telling me to do...  :)

[PeterPan]

Thanks for the update.  I was curious.  Since she is so young, do you think she just needs to be a bit older to take the test?  I haven't had to try administering the screening to a young child so I have nothing to compare your experience to.  I was wondering what your Mommy instincts are saying.  I ask because I have a friend in another state that is considering doing the Barton screening with her 4 year old.  I told her I thought she needed to be a little bit older, but she might want to talk to Susan Barton to confirm that....

 

What are your plans now, if you don't mind my asking?

 

I am finding that even though LiPS really helped my son, and he was able to pass the Barton screening after the LiPS remediation, he still has some odd glitches that really frustrate him at times.  For instance, if we are working on reading and the rules for the letter "C" at the beginning of a word, he knows when to read the soft "c" sound and when the "c" at the beginning of a word will say "k".  He knows the rules backwards and forwards, in fact.  If he is just writing the word, he gets it correctly when we are working on spelling.  However, when he is reading, if the first word in a list he is reading starts with a "s" sound for the letter c, he will use that same sound for the next word even if he knows it should be a "k" sound.  The reverse is also true.  Sometimes, because he knows he has this glitch, he will stop reading, stare at the word and I can see him struggle to MAKE his mouth say the "k" sound, like he is trying to override the subconscious control his brain has over speech and TELL himself what sound to say.  He hates it.  Don't know if we need more LiPS or just lots more practice or what....

OneStep, I'm dredging this up, because something sorta clicked in my mind.  That's a retrieval issue.  Did he have speech issues as a child?  Anyway, that's the difference.  I'm reading Overcoming Dyslexia and she mentions retrieval issues.  Of course, with ds retrieval issues are huge, as that's just assumed with an apraxia diagnosis.  With ds, we're able to give the physical input, telling the muscle and sending the signal to the brain.  I wonder if that's a kind of connection your ds would benefit from?  Anyways, you seemed pretty frustrated and I was wondering how your trip back through LIPS went and how that's going...

[OneStepAtATime]

OneStep, I'm dredging this up, because something sorta clicked in my mind.  That's a retrieval issue.  Did he have speech issues as a child?  Anyway, that's the difference.  I'm reading Overcoming Dyslexia and she mentions retrieval issues.  Of course, with ds retrieval issues are huge, as that's just assumed with an apraxia diagnosis.  With ds, we're able to give the physical input, telling the muscle and sending the signal to the brain.  I wonder if that's a kind of connection your ds would benefit from?  Anyways, you seemed pretty frustrated and I was wondering how your trip back through LIPS went and how that's going...

Funny, I am re-reading old posts, too!  

 

We got back from church and poor DS really struggled in Sunday School today.  He "stepped up" to a class for older kids today and they had them filling out worksheets with tiny spaces (dysgraphia really tanked that activity) plus doing a lot of multiplication verbally with no visual reference (dyslexia really tanked that activity because he couldn't keep the numbers straight), plus they had to read several passages from the bible (again, tanked) and he came out pretty demoralized.  I didn't realize that a :45 Sunday School class was going to hit so many of his weaknesses and pretty much none of his strengths.  Ugh!

 

As for LiPS, I think your points are quite valid.  Honestly, I really would like for him to do LiPS again.  He absolutely refused to go back and do any more LiPS at all, though, so we just repeated Level 3 of Barton to try and smooth things out.  He knows the rules backwards and forwards for Barton and can easily apply them in 90% of his reading and writing and spelling.  But the same weird glitches are still there.  

 

His emotional state is not what it should be so I am not pressing too hard on LiPS.  There are other things to deal with first.  A HUGE issue right now is loneliness, though.  He used to have a ton of friends.  He has none anymore.  He did have fun yesterday at a couple of parties he attended.  He got to talk with some High Schoolers about history and other subjects he has strong interest in.  They treated him like an equal and they were as knowledgeable as he is or even a little bit more regarding the subjects he cares about so he enjoyed talking with them immensely.  He has absolutely not one friend his age right now that will do that.

[Χά�ων]

 

We got back from church and poor DS really struggled in Sunday School today.  He "stepped up" to a class for older kids today and they had them filling out worksheets with tiny spaces (dysgraphia really tanked that activity) plus doing a lot of multiplication verbally with no visual reference (dyslexia really tanked that activity because he couldn't keep the numbers straight), plus they had to read several passages from the bible (again, tanked) and he came out pretty demoralized.  I didn't realize that a :45 Sunday School class was going to hit so many of his weaknesses and pretty much none of his strengths.  Ugh!

 

Math??? In Sunday school??>

[PeterPan]

Funny, I am re-reading old posts, too!  

 

We got back from church and poor DS really struggled in Sunday School today.  He "stepped up" to a class for older kids today and they had them filling out worksheets with tiny spaces (dysgraphia really tanked that activity) plus doing a lot of multiplication verbally with no visual reference (dyslexia really tanked that activity because he couldn't keep the numbers straight), plus they had to read several passages from the bible (again, tanked) and he came out pretty demoralized.  I didn't realize that a :45 Sunday School class was going to hit so many of his weaknesses and pretty much none of his strengths.  Ugh!

 

As for LiPS, I think your points are quite valid.  Honestly, I really would like for him to do LiPS again.  He absolutely refused to go back and do any more LiPS at all, though, so we just repeated Level 3 of Barton to try and smooth things out.  He knows the rules backwards and forwards for Barton and can easily apply them in 90% of his reading and writing and spelling.  But the same weird glitches are still there.  

 

His emotional state is not what it should be so I am not pressing too hard on LiPS.  There are other things to deal with first.  A HUGE issue right now is loneliness, though.  He used to have a ton of friends.  He has none anymore.  He did have fun yesterday at a couple of parties he attended.  He got to talk with some High Schoolers about history and other subjects he has strong interest in.  They treated him like an equal and they were as knowledgeable as he is or even a little bit more regarding the subjects he cares about so he enjoyed talking with them immensely.  He has absolutely not one friend his age right now that will do that.

Oh poor soul!  (Him, not you, lol.)  Well at least he wants friends and notices he doesn't have any.  Means he's probably socially typical, if it's any consolation.  My ds doesn't even realize he doesn't have friends.  

 

That's terrible on the church thing!  My dd carries an iPad with her.  You can use it for an e-bible, but then you also have access to a calculator, note taking apps, etc.  He could have scanned the form then made it bigger and written on it with a stylus or typed his answers in using a pdf editor.  It's something he could have solved in a snap for himself with an iPad, kwim?  Not to spend your money or anything.   :lol: 

 

Sorry about your bad day!

[PeterPan]

Math??? In Sunday school??>

I know, like were they doing volume of the ark calculations or something?   :lol:   :lol:

[Χά�ων]

Oh poor soul!  (Him, not you, lol.)  Well at least he wants friends and notices he doesn't have any.  Means he's probably socially typical, if it's any consolation.  My ds doesn't even realize he doesn't have friends.  

 

That's terrible on the church thing!  My dd carries an iPad with her.  You can use it for an e-bible, but then you also have access to a calculator, note taking apps, etc.  He could have scanned the form then made it bigger and written on it with a stylus or typed his answers in using a pdf editor.  It's something he could have solved in a snap for himself with an iPad, kwim?  Not to spend your money or anything.   :lol: 

 

Sorry about your bad day!

DS has a Samsung tablet but he does not use it for anything educational because his mother is clueless. 

 

Scanning? Making things bigger? Writing with a stylus? 

 

More details please. and are these things available on the Android market?

[OneStepAtATime]

Math??? In Sunday school??>

 

 

Oh poor soul!  (Him, not you, lol.)  Well at least he wants friends and notices he doesn't have any.  Means he's probably socially typical, if it's any consolation.  My ds doesn't even realize he doesn't have friends.  

 

That's terrible on the church thing!  My dd carries an iPad with her.  You can use it for an e-bible, but then you also have access to a calculator, note taking apps, etc.  He could have scanned the form then made it bigger and written on it with a stylus or typed his answers in using a pdf editor.  It's something he could have solved in a snap for himself with an iPad, kwim?  Not to spend your money or anything.   :lol: 

 

Sorry about your bad day!

 

 

I know, like were they doing volume of the ark calculations or something?   :lol:   :lol:

Yeah, I was a little flipped out on the math part.  

[PeterPan]

DS has a Samsung tablet but he does not use it for anything educational because his mother is clueless. 

 

Scanning? Making things bigger? Writing with a stylus? 

 

More details please. and are these things available on the Android market?

I just googled and came up with a bunch of stuff, so YES you should be able to!  I know we have tons of these apps for apple, and they range from free to $2-10.  If it's called a pdf reader, it can read.  If it says pdf editor, you should be able to write/type on the pdf.  People use these a lot in business to complete forms and send them to clients.  

 

Then what you want is a scanner app.  Again, we have a plethora of these for apple and you should be able to get one by googling.  Essentially you're taking a shot of it with the camera, but the app automatically takes that image and converts it to a pdf.  Then you can edit and use the pdf.  

 

When you're in something like a pdf editor/reader you can usually use your fingers to zoom.  At least you can do that on apple, and I'm assuming you can on samsung.  So it's there and then you just use your fingers to zoom in and make it bigger.  At that point use your stylus and write on it.

 

Don't let boring neurotypicals throw you around!  Smack 'em upside the head and do things your own way.  Self-advocacy is HUGE with SN, and they need to have tools and the knowledge that it's ok to buck the system and make life work for them.  Go for it.  :D

[OneStepAtATime]

Oh poor soul!  (Him, not you, lol.)  Well at least he wants friends and notices he doesn't have any.  Means he's probably socially typical, if it's any consolation.  My ds doesn't even realize he doesn't have friends.  

 

 

Actually, for a long time DD didn't seem to notice whether people were relating to her well or not.   She had friends, but they were friends of convenience, people she hung out with just because they had the same classes.  Only a set of twin boys actually were considered her close friends.  She has since lost touch with them for the most part.   Now, she does want more friends, though, and is frustrated with our tiny homeschooling group, but she has no patience for her old "friends" from brick and mortar and all the "drama" and boy crazy stuff they are in to so she'd rather do her own thing than put up with that.  

 

DS was ALWAYS hugely social.  And kids just sort of gravitated to him from early on.  Even as a toddler he had a ton of friends.  He was used to lots of friends around him all the time and he was used to kids listening to him and respecting him and turning to him for help.  And he loves helping others.  He was a great asset in class because his teachers could count on him to help other struggling students.  Until 2nd grade.  After things started going south he lost a lot of friends.  I think he felt they had lost respect for him.  Now that he is home he can't seem to find anyone to hang out with and the local boys make fun of him for liking to learn and loving history and science and books.  He is PAINFULLY aware that he has no friends.  We have honestly considered moving to try to help with this...

[Χά�ων]

 He is PAINFULLY aware that he has no friends.  We have honestly considered moving to try to help with this...

:crying:

[Χά�ων]

I hate to derail a thread but I find the 2nd grade comment to be interesting. That is when DS started to struggle socially. I always assumed it was because he went from play travel hockey to really sick and slowed down. The top kid (AKA the son of the coach) decided he did not like DS and the other kids fell in like a pack of piranhas and life became a social hell for DS. Now I have to wonder, maybe it is the age mixed with some of our warped societal views that actually encourage exclusion behavior in children.

[Storygirl]

Sorry about the Sunday school experience, OneStep.  We have similar issues in ballet class.  The teacher really wants the kids to use their brains and is interested in their overall development, not just their skill in dance.  That's admirable. There's a definite connection between the brain and the body in ballet.  But for the younger kids (grades 4 and under), she ends each class period by giving them a math problem.  Very tough for DD8, who we think may be dyslexic and has trouble memorizing math facts.  Plus, she is in the third grade ballet class (since she is 8) but she is only second grade academically.  The teacher does know this and gives DD8 easier problems.  But she has also told me that she doesn't believe dyslexia exists :confused1: , so she's really not that understanding.

[Storygirl]

I do have a question about LiPS.  We haven't tried the Barton screening tests yet, but DD8 has always had very poor phonological awareness, and I suspect from what I've read here that LiPS might help her.  BUT she has a mouth full of orthodontics.  I mean full.  She has a Herbst appliance linking her top and bottom jaw together, an expander, and an additional cylinder-shaped part that fills almost the entire roof of her mouth (to prevent finger sucking). There is also a wire that runs behind her bottom teeth.  Poor thing.  Would she be able to do something like LiPS with all this metal in the way?

[OneStepAtATime]

Sorry about the Sunday school experience, OneStep.  We have similar issues in ballet class.  The teacher really wants the kids to use their brains and is interested in their overall development, not just their skill in dance.  That's admirable. There's a definite connection between the brain and the body in ballet.  But for the younger kids (grades 4 and under), she ends each class period by giving them a math problem.  Very tough for DD8, who we think may be dyslexic and has trouble memorizing math facts.  Plus, she is in the third grade ballet class (since she is 8) but she is only second grade academically.  The teacher does know this and gives DD8 easier problems.  But she has also told me that she doesn't believe dyslexia exists :confused1: , so she's really not that understanding.

 

Sorry ballet situation is not what it should be.  And yes, I had an actual medical doctor AND an eye doctor tell me there was no such thing as dyslexia...or ADHD....or pretty much any thing else.   :glare:

 

I do have a question about LiPS.  We haven't tried the Barton screening tests yet, but DD8 has always had very poor phonological awareness, and I suspect from what I've read here that LiPS might help her.  BUT she has a mouth full of orthodontics.  I mean full.  She has a Herbst appliance linking her top and bottom jaw together, an expander, and an additional cylinder-shaped part that fills almost the entire roof of her mouth (to prevent finger sucking). There is also a wire that runs behind her bottom teeth.  Poor thing.  Would she be able to do something like LiPS with all this metal in the way?

I wonder.  It may actually be an issue.  But before you get worried about this I would administer the Barton test.  You may be surprised.  She might not need LiPS.

[LaughingCat]

I believe DD still had her expander and a wire behind the bottom teeth when we did LIPS and I don't remember any effect -  LIPS is about being aware of lip/mouth/tongue placement so as long as she can actually make a particular sound, I would think she would be ok.

[Storygirl]

Thanks!  The Barton test is in our near future!

[OneStepAtATime]

I hate to derail a thread but I find the 2nd grade comment to be interesting. That is when DS started to struggle socially. I always assumed it was because he went from play travel hockey to really sick and slowed down. The top kid (AKA the son of the coach) decided he did not like DS and the other kids fell in like a pack of piranhas and life became a social hell for DS. Now I have to wonder, maybe it is the age mixed with some of our warped societal views that actually encourage exclusion behavior in children.

With regards to 2nd grade, I do wonder if boys start treating each other differently by 2nd grade.  DS was never very close with the kids next door (boys near his age) but until 2nd they had managed to play together o.k.  2nd grade kind of changed that.  I assumed it was the emotional stress he was under and our decision to homeschool, but there may have been other issues involved.

 

And DS had TONS of female friends that were just friends prior to 2nd.  Starting in 2nd there was more of a flirty thing going on from a couple of the girls that caused the other boys to start teasing DS even though he wasn't the one flirting, he was still just a friend.  The pack mentality was definitely in effect here.  This caused DS to stop wanting to hang out with his female friends as much.  And come to think of it, DH started teasing DS about having "girlfriends" at the beginning of 2nd.  I had to keep stepping in and telling him to quit because it was really upsetting DS.