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My 3rd grade son scored low on the reading comprehension part of his ITBS. This didn't really surprise me, as he often does poorly on reading comprehension questions. Sometimes when he answers written questions, the answers make no sense at all. I think he misreads the questions or sometimes the directions. For example: Question--Why did Jesus choose the 12 disciples? His answer--Jesus choose Peter. Now the answer to this was in his reader that he just read. I am not sure if he was just rushing through this, or if he read it wrong.

 

When reading he will often skip small words like the, a, of, etc but sometimes he misreads the words that are there. We used R & S 2 reading this year along with Beyond the Code. I guess my question is what can we do to help improve his reading comprehension and I guess his overall reading?

 

Thanks.

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Read him a paragraph, have him tell you what just happened. If he doesn't know (most likely because this is new and his mind will wander), do not read it again, do not give him hints, do not ask questions to try and see if you can help him. You want to get him to focus and pay attention. If he doesn't remember, say "try to play attention so you don't miss what's going on in the story." Hopefully by the fifth paragraph or so, he'll catch on. Practice this fifteen minutes a day. Use a fun book, not something dry and boring. If he hasn't read Alcatraz vs. The Evil Librarians, I highly recommend that one.

 

All this is assuming he's a neurotypical kid, with no learning disorders.

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I'm no expert but, I think something like WWE would work well for your son. You would read a passage, then do the questions. Do it together orally. I would give him chances to find the answers within the text, reread as much as he needs, set him up to succeed not fail. He is young, and will improve. Practice, practice, practice!

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Could it be an irritation level on your son's part? I ask this because my son does not do well on reading comprehension tests, but if I ask him about the book even the same questions but verbally he will go into extreme detail. No problems. I've asked him why his written answers are not so well done and his response was that the comprehension papers irritate him and he finds them foolish so he just writes the minimum to be done. Lovely. So make sure he really isn't comprehending the story/passage, it might be that he just doesn't like comprehension papers.

 

My son is just finishing up 4th grade in a Parochial school but has been doing these comprehension papers/questions since 1st grade. I cringe when I see the golden rod papers come home.

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Read him a paragraph, have him tell you what just happened. If he doesn't know (most likely because this is new and his mind will wander), do not read it again, do not give him hints, do not ask questions to try and see if you can help him. You want to get him to focus and pay attention. If he doesn't remember, say "try to play attention so you don't miss what's going on in the story." Hopefully by the fifth paragraph or so, he'll catch on. Practice this fifteen minutes a day. Use a fun book, not something dry and boring. If he hasn't read Alcatraz vs. The Evil Librarians, I highly recommend that one.

 

All this is assuming he's a neurotypical kid, with no learning disorders.

 

 

This sounds like a good idea, we might try this. Thank you.

 

I'm no expert but, I think something like WWE would work well for your son. You would read a passage, then do the questions. Do it together orally. I would give him chances to find the answers within the text, reread as much as he needs, set him up to succeed not fail. He is young, and will improve. Practice, practice, practice!

 

 

I have thought about using WWE with him. Would I need to start with WWE 1? I already have a writing program for next year though. Thanks for the thoughts.

 

Could it be an irritation level on your son's part? I ask this because my son does not do well on reading comprehension tests, but if I ask him about the book even the same questions but verbally he will go into extreme detail. No problems. I've asked him why his written answers are not so well done and his response was that the comprehension papers irritate him and he finds them foolish so he just writes the minimum to be done. Lovely. So make sure he really isn't comprehending the story/passage, it might be that he just doesn't like comprehension papers.

 

My son is just finishing up 4th grade in a Parochial school but has been doing these comprehension papers/questions since 1st grade. I cringe when I see the golden rod papers come home.

 

 

No, I really don't think it is irritation. He doesn't do well orally either. He does better, but still not as well as he should. Thanks.

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My 3rd grade son scored low on the reading comprehension part of his ITBS. This didn't really surprise me, as he often does poorly on reading comprehension questions. Sometimes when he answers written questions, the answers make no sense at all. I think he misreads the questions or sometimes the directions. For example: Question--Why did Jesus choose the 12 disciples? His answer--Jesus choose Peter. Now the answer to this was in his reader that he just read. I am not sure if he was just rushing through this, or if he read it wrong.

 

When reading he will often skip small words like the, a, of, etc but sometimes he misreads the words that are there. We used R & S 2 reading this year along with Beyond the Code. I guess my question is what can we do to help improve his reading comprehension and I guess his overall reading?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Misreading the question or the directions isn't necessarily a reading comprehension issue, even though that's the supposed purpose of the test. I think that's something that you just have to continue working with over time; goodness knows, there are gazillions of adults who don't read directions even though their reading skills are good. :glare:

 

His other issues, such as skipping small words or misreading the words that are there, could be indicative of some actual reading difficulties. OTOH, it could be that he just needs basic remediation. I, of course, would recommend Spalding. :-) One of the advantages of doing Spalding is that it would be almost everything for literacy: reading, spelling, penmanship, capitalization and punctuation, and simple writing. I would probably recommend that you go beyond the spelling lesson to the reading lesson, which involves the use of the McCall Harby materials.

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Misreading the question or the directions isn't necessarily a reading comprehension issue, even though that's the supposed purpose of the test. I think that's something that you just have to continue working with over time; goodness knows, there are gazillions of adults who don't read directions even though their reading skills are good. :glare:

 

His other issues, such as skipping small words or misreading the words that are there, could be indicative of some actual reading difficulties. OTOH, it could be that he just needs basic remediation. I, of course, would recommend Spalding. :-) One of the advantages of doing Spalding is that it would be almost everything for literacy: reading, spelling, penmanship, capitalization and punctuation, and simple writing. I would probably recommend that you go beyond the spelling lesson to the reading lesson, which involves the use of the McCall Harby materials.

 

Yes, I agree that misreading directions isn't a comprehension issue, but I think he does have some comprehension problems. Idk, maybe it is more of a reading problem. When he reads his Beyond the Code book, he underlines it as he reads it. I guess this helps him keep his place. I am just unsure how to help him.

 

I knew you would recommend Spalding. :tongue_smilie: I was looking at WRTR last night.

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This sounds like a good idea, we might try this. Thank you.

 

 

 

I have thought about using WWE with him. Would I need to start with WWE 1? I already have a writing program for next year though. Thanks for the thoughts.

 

 

 

No, I really don't think it is irritation. He doesn't do well orally either. He does better, but still not as well as he should. Thanks.

 

 

WWE could help, but I'll share why it didn't work well for us. Same when doing narrations with SOTW. Granted, my son is younger, you might not have the same problem. But for us, the passages were too long. He would zone out, I'd ask the questions, he'd have no idea, I'd read him the part that answered the questions, he'd answer the question. There was no real incentive for him to pay attention to the whole thing because he knew I'd help him after ward. With the method I described, there was no negative consequence for getting it wrong, but he got to say whatever he felt like, not just the answer to what he thought was a boring question. The first few days, he didn't even realize it was work. It was fun. But it got him in the habit of paying attention to what I was reading. His scores on his reading comprehension went way up. It was an oral test, so that might have made it a bit easier, but I really think it helped in the long run. If your son could learn how to do that, then eventually you could have him start writing down what he told you. That's essentially what WWE does, but you can tweak it as you need and go at his pace

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For most of my remedial students, they have a reading problem, not a comprehension problem. I would give the NRRF, the MWIA, and my nonsense word test (New Elizabethian Test) and see how the scores turn out. For scores over 2nd grade on the NRRF, do the MWIA part II. Scores 2nd grade and below, do the MWIA part I. Time the phonetic and holistic portions of the MWIA separately and have a break of a few minutes between sections to rest.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/readinggradeleve.html

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WWE could help, but I'll share why it didn't work well for us. Same when doing narrations with SOTW. Granted, my son is younger, you might not have the same problem. But for us, the passages were too long. He would zone out, I'd ask the questions, he'd have no idea, I'd read him the part that answered the questions, he'd answer the question. There was no real incentive for him to pay attention to the whole thing because he knew I'd help him after ward. With the method I described, there was no negative consequence for getting it wrong, but he got to say whatever he felt like, not just the answer to what he thought was a boring question. The first few days, he didn't even realize it was work. It was fun. But it got him in the habit of paying attention to what I was reading. His scores on his reading comprehension went way up. It was an oral test, so that might have made it a bit easier, but I really think it helped in the long run. If your son could learn how to do that, then eventually you could have him start writing down what he told you. That's essentially what WWE does, but you can tweak it as you need and go at his pace

 

So are you saying WWE helped or didn't help? It sounds like you used it, but tweaked it to break it down into smaller passages. This could help improve his listening skills, but will this carryover into his reading?

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For most of my remedial students, they have a reading problem, not a comprehension problem. I would give the NRRF, the MWIA, and my nonsense word test (New Elizabethian Test) and see how the scores turn out. For scores over 2nd grade on the NRRF, do the MWIA part II. Scores 2nd grade and below, do the MWIA part I. Time the phonetic and holistic portions of the MWIA separately and have a break of a few minutes between sections to rest.

 

http://www.thephonic...ggradeleve.html

 

Thanks! I have printed these off to give him later. I suspect he does have more of a reading problem than a comprehension one.

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For most of my remedial students, they have a reading problem, not a comprehension problem. I would give the NRRF, the MWIA, and my nonsense word test (New Elizabethian Test) and see how the scores turn out. For scores over 2nd grade on the NRRF, do the MWIA part II. Scores 2nd grade and below, do the MWIA part I. Time the phonetic and holistic portions of the MWIA separately and have a break of a few minutes between sections to rest.

 

http://www.thephonic...ggradeleve.html

 

 

Ok. I just gave him the NRRF, but I am not sure how to interpert the results. Most of the time his errors were changing a word like a to the or the like. Sometimes he skipped a word or mispronounced a word.

 

On part 1 he made no errors on sections A and B. He made 1 error on part C. 2 errors on parts D, E, and H and 3 errors on parts F and G. Most of these errors were changing a small word into another small word, and a few skipped words.

 

On part 2 he made 1 error on parts 1, 3. He made no errors on part 2. Three errors on part 3. He had the hardest time on parts 4, 5, and 6. He made more than 5 errors on these parts. I told him he could stop, but he wanted to finish. He made the most errors on the longer, harder words. He said he didn't know how to read these words he'd never seen before. I showed him that he could sound them out, which he did on some, others he just plowed through incorrectly. He also made the same kind of mistakes as he did in the earlier parts.

 

What does this mean?

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That is 2nd grade level. But, the guessing and substitutions would concern me in parts A-H (basics of phonics.) Did you do sight words in addition to phonics? I would give the MWIA level II, pages 7 and 8, with a break between pages. Time each page and have him say skip if he cannot figure out a word. On your copy, write out his mistakes on top of the words.

 

He should read at a comfortable pace while doing the MWIA, a regular pace but not rushed. Time each page, but do not focus on the fact that you are timing this test.

 

There are strategies for breaking up and decoding longer words that many students need to be taught explicitly, they are linked at the bottom of my how to tutor page. I would not use the exact words on these tests to explain anything, though, you want to be able to re-use them later so you do not want to teach to the test.

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/howtotutor.html

 

2nd grade on the NRRF is actually borderline for the MWIA level II. If it is too much to read at a time for him, try the MWIA I instead.

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That is 2nd grade level. But, the guessing and substitutions would concern me in parts A-H (basics of phonics.) Did you do sight words in addition to phonics? I would give the MWIA level II, pages 7 and 8, with a break between pages. Time each page and have him say skip if he cannot figure out a word. On your copy, write out his mistakes on top of the words.

 

He should read at a comfortable pace while doing the MWIA, a regular pace but not rushed. Time each page, but do not focus on the fact that you are timing this test.

 

There are strategies for breaking up and decoding longer words that many students need to be taught explicitly, they are linked at the bottom of my how to tutor page. I would not use the exact words on these tests to explain anything, though, you want to be able to re-use them later so you do not want to teach to the test.

 

http://www.thephonic...howtotutor.html

 

2nd grade on the NRRF is actually borderline for the MWIA level II. If it is too much to read at a time for him, try the MWIA I instead.

 

 

Well, he learned to read at ps. They taught sight words along with phonics (it seemed to me to be heavily dependent on sight words ). Last year (2nd grade) was my first year homeschooling, and the only phonics I used was ETC. This year I used ETC along with R&S 2nd grade phonics (which I thought would be a review and he did a lot of this on his own).

 

I will give him the MWIA tomorrow and see how he does. Thank you for your help!

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Yes, I agree that misreading directions isn't a comprehension issue, but I think he does have some comprehension problems. Idk, maybe it is more of a reading problem. When he reads his Beyond the Code book, he underlines it as he reads it. I guess this helps him keep his place. I am just unsure how to help him.

 

I knew you would recommend Spalding. :tongue_smilie: I was looking at WRTR last night.

 

 

Comprehension issues may be directly related to his knowledge of phonics.

 

That he was in public school and taught sight reading is a big red WARNING sign to me. I'm thinking that going back to the beginning with a good phonics method will help the most.

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You are going to need nonsense words and a review of phonics. The combination of incomplete phonics and sight words as commonly taught in school leads to a lot of guessing; nonsense words and a bit of spelling with the phonics is helpful for overcoming this problem. Also, I like to limit all outside reading for a month or so and focus purely on reading and spelling words in isolation, that also helps overcome the guessing habits.

 

Reading through my how to tutor page and working through the materials linked at the end should be a good start. My concentration game is something you can start soon even if he needs a bit of a break before starting work, it is fun. It also makes both real and nonsense words so is helpful for decreasing guessing.

 

Here is the how and why teaching sight words. You will eventually want to teach them all phonetically, but they should be avoided for now.

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Yes, I agree that misreading directions isn't a comprehension issue, but I think he does have some comprehension problems. Idk, maybe it is more of a reading problem. When he reads his Beyond the Code book, he underlines it as he reads it. I guess this helps him keep his place. I am just unsure how to help him.

 

I knew you would recommend Spalding. :tongue_smilie: I was looking at WRTR last night.

 

This is a good time also to get his eyes checked. If you go to a *developmental* optometrist instead of a regular one and mention he's having some reading problems, they can *screen* him for convergence, focusing, tracking, etc. They can do that during a regular appt, and it won't cost you anymore than elsewhere, just gives you that extra info. COVD is where you find a developmental optometrist. Definitely worth the effort, just to make sure you're not missing a vision problem underlying the reading problem.

 

I used SWR/WRTR with my dd, and it worked great.

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Comprehension issues may be directly related to his knowledge of phonics.

 

That he was in public school and taught sight reading is a big red WARNING sign to me. I'm thinking that going back to the beginning with a good phonics method will help the most.

 

Thanks Ellie! It also didn't help that he got the 1st year teachers each year who didn't exactly know what they were doing. Nevermind that when I questioned his 1st grade teacher about his reading, I was told he was doing fine. :confused1: They actually encouraged guessing and using picture cues. They put them in reading groups with others at the same reading level. His twin sister got GREAT teachers. She is an excellent reader. (not that I'm comparing, she probably could have had bad teachers and still would have done well).

 

 

You are going to need nonsense words and a review of phonics. The combination of incomplete phonics and sight words as commonly taught in school leads to a lot of guessing; nonsense words and a bit of spelling with the phonics is helpful for overcoming this problem. Also, I like to limit all outside reading for a month or so and focus purely on reading and spelling words in isolation, that also helps overcome the guessing habits.

 

Reading through my how to tutor page and working through the materials linked at the end should be a good start. My concentration game is something you can start soon even if he needs a bit of a break before starting work, it is fun. It also makes both real and nonsense words so is helpful for decreasing guessing.

 

Here is the how and why teaching sight words. You will eventually want to teach them all phonetically, but they should be avoided for now.

 

Thanks Elizabeth! I will look these over.

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Yes, you need to make sure that he's in great shape with phonics. You have some great advice for that.

 

Many of my reading students are have problems with decoding words (more dyslexic - like) while the rest of the students have issues issues with comprehension and language processing. They can read the words pretty well but can't explain it back or answer questions about it. Many also struggle with word reteival, sequencing, etc.

 

for those that have the comprehension issues we work strongly on using a systematic phonics method and a we also work on building language and comprehension. As you work on the phonics some of the comprehension should get better.

 

My philosophy is the same for both. Start at the level they are...

 

If you can get a feel for where he is comprehending well you can pull books that are about his level and do a lot of narrations. He reads a section (sentence, paragraph, etc.) and then tells you about it. If he gets the main point and can answer some follow up questions than you can go to the next paragaraph. If not, you can discuss that section until he can explain it.

 

Does he have problems with retelling what is going on in his daily life. If you run some errands can he tell someone that night what he did? If he needs practice you can work on that also.

 

You might need to spend extra time on vocabulary, too, as that sometimes lags when comprehension is a problem. Make sure that he knows what words are and can use them in sentences.

 

If you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask.

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Reading. And more reading.

 

Lots of reading paired with discussions of context, subtleties. Discuss main ideas and identify what is most important and least important in a passage. Discuss extraneous information. We did all this with my son and his test scores for reading comprehension are at the top of the curve. He would do fine on the SAT reading section now and he's not yet 10. Given that he has ASD, reading into a character's emotions or motivations did not come naturally to him.

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Thanks Ellie! It also didn't help that he got the 1st year teachers each year who didn't exactly know what they were doing. Nevermind that when I questioned his 1st grade teacher about his reading, I was told he was doing fine. :confused1: They actually encouraged guessing and using picture cues. They put them in reading groups with others at the same reading level. His twin sister got GREAT teachers. She is an excellent reader. (not that I'm comparing, she probably could have had bad teachers and still would have done well).

 

:cursing:

 

See, I'm thinking that you should drop everything else and go straight to Spalding.

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Thanks Ellie! It also didn't help that he got the 1st year teachers each year who didn't exactly know what they were doing. Nevermind that when I questioned his 1st grade teacher about his reading, I was told he was doing fine. :confused1: They actually encouraged guessing and using picture cues. They put them in reading groups with others at the same reading level. His twin sister got GREAT teachers. She is an excellent reader. (not that I'm comparing, she probably could have had bad teachers and still would have done well).

 

 

I swear school SLOWS down reading. My niece is smart as a whip and has all of her reading readiness signs for sure. Yet, to me it seems she was closer to reading at the beginning of the year than now. My brother is going to do phonics with her at home this summer. My older son never needed to formally study phonics, he has just intuited it all but with most kids (including me as a kid) phonics is the magic that opens up reading. I think the main reason my son was reading after Kindy is that he started Kindy reading already. Their solution was to try and slow him down rather than let him work at his level. They did everything they could to try and convince me that he wasn't "really" reading. I think the educational evaluation that had him at 5th grade level for reading in kindy (age 5) finally sorta kinda got them to stuff it.

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My middle son had a reading comprehension problem. Most of it stemmed from reading the words and not actually paying attention to what these words were saying. He was rushing. To help him we started off real slow. Read a sentence at a time and tell me what you just read. Then to a paragraph a page and then a chapter. It got him to slow down and focus.

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I swear school SLOWS down reading. My niece is smart as a whip and has all of her reading readiness signs for sure. Yet, to me it seems she was closer to reading at the beginning of the year than now. My brother is going to do phonics with her at home this summer. My older son never needed to formally study phonics, he has just intuited it all but with most kids (including me as a kid) phonics is the magic that opens up reading. I think the main reason my son was reading after Kindy is that he started Kindy reading already. Their solution was to try and slow him down rather than let him work at his level. They did everything they could to try and convince me that he wasn't "really" reading. I think the educational evaluation that had him at 5th grade level for reading in kindy (age 5) finally sorta kinda got them to stuff it.

 

:cursing:

 

Yours is not an unusual story.

 

A book that was a real eye-opener for me back when I was coming to grips with the fact that I was actually going to have to teach my younger to read (older dd was reading when I withdrew her from school) was "Why Johnny Still Can't Read." 'Splains everything.

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My DD changes some words like yours does - also often "a" to "the" and also things like "where" to "there" - she was also taught phonics with some sight words, but a lot of her problem has to do with the fact that she is trying to speed read now without having her left to right tracking totally developed so she will also often read the words correctly but read them in the wrong order. All I have done is keep a piece of paper under the line she is reading to me and then any errors no matter how minor they seem I just put my finger under what she has read wrong and wait til she reads it correctly - she doesn't like having to keep rereading and this method alone has helped her. If she is not reading a word correctly then I will cover the entire word up and uncover it one letter/sound at a time so that she is forced to sound it out correctly - this is only ever a problem with long multisyllable words where the phonics is a little complicated and where she doesn't have the word in her vocabulary.

 

As for reading comprehension vs answering questions correctly - this should be taught orally during normal life - so if you ask a child what they are doing and they answer: "I'll be there in 5 minutes" you correct them as they have not answered the question and then gradually work up to more difficult and subtle questions and finally reading comprehension questions, but you must not let your child get away with answering questions with more questions or with statements that do not address exactly what you have asked. Not being able to comprehend what you read is usually a vocabulary issue and that is easily checked - but this implies reading is fluent - first address any reading issues before addressing comprehension issues.

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Yes, you need to make sure that he's in great shape with phonics. You have some great advice for that.

 

Many of my reading students are have problems with decoding words (more dyslexic - like) while the rest of the students have issues issues with comprehension and language processing. They can read the words pretty well but can't explain it back or answer questions about it. Many also struggle with word reteival, sequencing, etc.

 

for those that have the comprehension issues we work strongly on using a systematic phonics method and a we also work on building language and comprehension. As you work on the phonics some of the comprehension should get better.

 

My philosophy is the same for both. Start at the level they are...

 

If you can get a feel for where he is comprehending well you can pull books that are about his level and do a lot of narrations. He reads a section (sentence, paragraph, etc.) and then tells you about it. If he gets the main point and can answer some follow up questions than you can go to the next paragaraph. If not, you can discuss that section until he can explain it.

 

Does he have problems with retelling what is going on in his daily life. If you run some errands can he tell someone that night what he did? If he needs practice you can work on that also.

 

You might need to spend extra time on vocabulary, too, as that sometimes lags when comprehension is a problem. Make sure that he knows what words are and can use them in sentences.

 

If you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks! We will try reading small sections and discussing. I am realizing we need to work on his phonics. Yes, he could tell someone about what he did that day.

 

Reading. And more reading.

 

Lots of reading paired with discussions of context, subtleties. Discuss main ideas and identify what is most important and least important in a passage. Discuss extraneous information. We did all this with my son and his test scores for reading comprehension are at the top of the curve. He would do fine on the SAT reading section now and he's not yet 10. Given that he has ASD, reading into a character's emotions or motivations did not come naturally to him.

Reading and discussing. Got it. ;) Thanks!

 

My middle son had a reading comprehension problem. Most of it stemmed from reading the words and not actually paying attention to what these words were saying. He was rushing. To help him we started off real slow. Read a sentence at a time and tell me what you just read. Then to a paragraph a page and then a chapter. It got him to slow down and focus.

I think that sometimes my ds is focusing so hard on reading the words that he doesn't pay attention (or remember) to what he is reading. Thanks for the ideas!

 

 

My DD changes some words like yours does - also often "a" to "the" and also things like "where" to "there" - she was also taught phonics with some sight words, but a lot of her problem has to do with the fact that she is trying to speed read now without having her left to right tracking totally developed so she will also often read the words correctly but read them in the wrong order. All I have done is keep a piece of paper under the line she is reading to me and then any errors no matter how minor they seem I just put my finger under what she has read wrong and wait til she reads it correctly - she doesn't like having to keep rereading and this method alone has helped her. If she is not reading a word correctly then I will cover the entire word up and uncover it one letter/sound at a time so that she is forced to sound it out correctly - this is only ever a problem with long multisyllable words where the phonics is a little complicated and where she doesn't have the word in her vocabulary.

 

As for reading comprehension vs answering questions correctly - this should be taught orally during normal life - so if you ask a child what they are doing and they answer: "I'll be there in 5 minutes" you correct them as they have not answered the question and then gradually work up to more difficult and subtle questions and finally reading comprehension questions, but you must not let your child get away with answering questions with more questions or with statements that do not address exactly what you have asked. Not being able to comprehend what you read is usually a vocabulary issue and that is easily checked - but this implies reading is fluent - first address any reading issues before addressing comprehension issues.

 

My son isn't trying to speed read though. I will try your suggestions, thanks!

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