trying to teach cheerfullness and needing hugs

[momma aimee]

I started this thread in the K-8 area and a learned momma suggest i post here, this is the orginal post plus more:

 

yesterday my DS 7 was melting over everything. everything. not mad (that i find better able to handle than the heart breaking sad or the extream frustration . school is so hard. i think the one think the ONLY think keeping me from sending him to school is the very real fear he'd be behind. also -- really -- school would not help -- i'd just be getting called in to deal with the melts and fighting home work all night every night.

 

constant melts, constant fights -- he has to argue every word i say and cry about everything.

 

this is not how i envisioned home school.

 

​he can handle the work, he just doesn't want to. it is pulling teeth to get him to write anything ..

 

ADD medication has made it better, a lot better, but it is still not what i "saw" when i thought of when i think of homeschooling.

 

​I know i need to work on character and cheerfulness BUTTTTTTT when i try star charts or anything like that, it seems to make thing worse. he is so easy to frustrate (not with the work but with having to do the work -- he is not struggling with the academics, but he is struggling with the actual "do it" part -- he doesn't want to do anything though it is not too hard for him

 

the problem is i have done things like GREEN YELLOW, and RED -- but when he gets moved to YELLOW (warning) he melts down and get so frustrated that it makes the behavior worse -- not better. it seems like any time his behavior or 'tude start to fail -- any thing i do to comont on it, warn him about it, etc only make it worse rather than leading to a recovery. :( I am not sure where to go with him, or what to try.

 

he is medicated for ADD and Depression and in general the depression is getting better

 

we see a nueropsychitrist in Dec too.

[Trillian]

I would guess that that is the anxiety, only because I see the same response in my own DS. Instead of becoming motivated, he becomes overwhelmed by the "what if," if he doesn't earn the reward and everything comes to a stop. What I find works when he's dragging and resisting is small motivators, like, "Once you finish the front of your math and I'll get you a hot cocoa for while you work on the back." And then he's halfway done and has hot cocoa, so the back doesn't seem so bad LOL.

 

I also alternate easy/fun(for him) subjects with more difficult, so math (the worst) is bookended by his reading and my reading to him.

 

And honestly, I do what I can, within reason, to make school pleasant, but for years I wanted him to be cheerful during school, and I had to let go of that expectation. There are days when he is interested and engaged, but he would still rather be out playing. There are days when he's in a bad mood and just slogs through and would rather be out playing. I don't let my pride and emotions get wrapped up in him loving school because even on a good day, he would rather be playing :-) and that's o.k.

 

HTH

[LaughingCat]

the problem is i have done things like GREEN YELLOW, and RED -- but when he gets moved to YELLOW (warning) he melts down and get so frustrated that it makes the behavior worse -- not better. it seems like any time his behavior or 'tude start to fail -- any thing i do to comont on it, warn him about it, etc only make it worse rather than leading to a recovery. I am not sure where to go with him, or what to try.

My DD also gets very frustrated/upset with any "system" where something gets 'taken away' and warnings have never helped her regulate. One thing is, I don't ask for "cheerfulness" as much as "good attitude" - the difference in my mind is that if she is putting forth effort on something that is hard for her or she dislikes then I don't expect her to be upbeat (cheerful) about it too. What I ask for is effort and neutral attitude - and that any discussion about likes/dislike/why/changes(i.e. complaints :001_rolleyes: ) happen later separate from the actual work. Sportsmanship is more like what I'm going for - you don't have to act happy when the other person is winning but you do have to act respectfully.

 

As far as actually getting the effort though - the very best thing I have found is to get her "buy-in" on the outcome. We sat down together and listed out our goals, and then we talked a bit about what each thing I'm having her do is doing to move her toward that goal. I didn't go in depth - sometimes I just said, "from my research this is the best thing I've found so far on <thing> that you're struggling with, I know you don't like it and I'm continuing to look for other things that you might like better". Since then, a simple reminder of the goal has improved behavior immensely. Of course, this mostly works because all of her most disliked activities are geared toward working on her top goals listed (although it has also helped with one goal that I listed that she knows she struggles with). I guess there are two parts to this one - one the goals, and secondly the acknowledgement of her feelings - along that lines, I remind her when she starts complaining that I will listen to and take into consideration anything she has to say - but not now.

 

Another thing that helps is giving her a choice - you can do this worksheet OR xtraMath for math facts, or here's what we have to do, what do you want to do first. Also looking for the many little things/times she does do well and commenting on them (I struggle with this one - my own parents were so not that way). Love hjdong's idea of fixing the reward after so much effort while they continue working - so many times when I've tried a reward after effort the reward itself ends up derailing further work.

 

We still struggle with this though..

[Dmmetler]

I've learned that I can't be negative with DD-that if I do, the anxiety is triggered and meltdowns get worse. So I do a lot of that old behavorist standby-the sticker chart, where she'll get stickers for completing tasks with whatever we're working on (like persevering when corrected instead of bursting into tears). For DD, it's not the having, it's the getting. it doesn't matter whether we ever actually trace the charts in-only that she gets to put the sticker or stamp or whatever on the chart.

 

One thing that has helped me is to look at outside classes and how DD responds to those teachers. Inevitably, the ones who get the most response a those who provide a consistent stream of positive feedback, with almost no negative, even when I'm in the parent's room wanting desperately to go down and correct my DD's behavior. What I've learned, especially from her gymnastics coach, is that there's always something positive to comment on, and that after you do so, often the negative behavior is stopped while DD repeats the positive. In the midst of a would be meltdown over having written the letter L backwards, if I can compliment her on the beautiful letter a next to the L, usually she can pull herself together and correct the L the next time, and we can get back on track.

[Heathermomster]

You may want to consider a more unschooling approach. Look up posts by One Michelle. She has taken an untraditional approach with her boys and experienced very positive results.

[MomatHWTK]

Continue to research on your own how to handle the emotional issues with ADD and depression for kids. Therapy seemed like a waste of time to me at the outset, but I can see real improvement in my child. It is SLOW improvement though. It is hard for an adult to handle out of control emotions and we have years of experience- factor in the general confusion of studying and growing up and it is a lot for a little guy to manage.

 

I have used some of the resources from here:

http://www.psycholog...orksheets.html/

 

and here:

http://www.kpchr.org....html#downloads

 

Focussing on getting the emotional health and well being under control is just as important as learning the three R's at this point. And, if you can teach your child to overcome those emotional issues now, it will make learning easier in the future. One thing our doctor has made clear to me is that In a PS setting, a child who was struggling with emotional or behavioral problems would has assigned learning time to work on those issues. It is OK to assign time to doing so at home too. :grouphug:

[sbgrace]

Many hugs to you. I'm going to write a bit about my kids because I see possible aspects in what you wrote. It may not apply.

 

How sensitive is your child (emotionally)? What does engage him?

 

I've got a melt down kid too. He is absolutely not motivated by consequences. That doesn't mean there are no consequences here. But, usually, the consequence hanging over him virtually guarantees he'll do x right before he melts down. He is much more motivated by accomplishment (personal), calling out the good I see, and etc. Is your child possibly like that too? He's also ultra sensitive to the moods and emotions around him. So if I loose my cool he'll spiral and it will take a long time to pull him out.

 

This child, if he was my only one, would be doing lots of unschool type learning. I would still be teaching him but through his own interests as much as possible. Even now I try to incorporate his interests but it's within the framework of what I have planned rather than unschooling. This week he chose foursquare houses as his copywork. He's writing about them too. I know already his topic of choice next week with be Tudor houses. I've no doubt what's coming afterward. We used houses in our math today, I am putting a lot of focus on the homes of ancient peoples as I plan history, etc. But unschooling would fit him better and if it were only him I'd be doing some hybrid style that has a lot more of that element I think.

 

The other thing that can be very hard is sorting out attention deficit and unwillingness to complete things/do work. You may actually be seeing the attention deficit in the school work more than you might think. It's nearly impossible for mine to stay focused on things he's not interested in for long at all. If I push past that point I'm pretty much assured he'll have a melt down and learning won't occur. He tries my patience more than anything in my life.

 

I've got another who is just a very strong and dominant personality. He's much more responsive to consequences and reward type systems than his twin. He is a tough nut but easier to parent over-all because he's much more predictable, has a motive to please parent at some level, etc. He is much more likely to make me feel like steam is coming out of my ears though.

[momma aimee]

Continue to research on your own how to handle the emotional issues with ADD and depression for kids. Therapy seemed like a waste of time to me at the outset, but I can see real improvement in my child. It is SLOW improvement though. It is hard for an adult to handle out of control emotions and we have years of experience- factor in the general confusion of studying and growing up and it is a lot for a little guy to manage.

 

I have used some of the resources from here:

http://www.psycholog...orksheets.html/

 

and here:

http://www.kpchr.org....html#downloads

 

Focussing on getting the emotional health and well being under control is just as important as learning the three R's at this point. And, if you can teach your child to overcome those emotional issues now, it will make learning easier in the future. One thing our doctor has made clear to me is that In a PS setting, a child who was struggling with emotional or behavioral problems would has assigned learning time to work on those issues. It is OK to assign time to doing so at home too. :grouphug:

 

excellent point, i needed to hear. I have intentionally kept school lighter than i would like -- to give medication and therapy time to help him be in a better place. I need to think of it more as 'a subject for school"

 

thanks ladies, all this does help.

[MerryAtHope]

At 7, I still did a lot WITH my child too. I would scribe for part of math (or sometimes all of it)--he would give the answers, but I would do the writing. We made it a fun, snuggle on the couch together subject. As others have said, anything you can do to turn it into a positive and enjoyable situation rather than a negative one will help.

 

We also talked about a "self-control toolbox." What things CAN your child do when he or she is frustrated? What's acceptable? We talked about how throwing things, breaking pencils, screaming & yelling etc... were not acceptable, but other things were. Getting a drink of water, getting a small (approved) snack, walking around for 5 minutes, shooting hoops (when they were young we had an indoor nerf set--this can transition into something bigger when older), jumping jacks, run around outside the house a set number of times, jump on a trampoline or mini-tramp, go to the bathroom, go lay down for a few minutes, pray, ask for help, march (for one of mine, the right-left brain activity of marching did a turn-around within just a minute or two)....

 

Another thing that became important here was to think about how I responded to frustration. It's easy to think that "kid" frustration is silly--why get all worked up over ___? But let's say I'm late for a meeting and can't find my keys...well, it used to be a not very pretty sight at all! I came to look at those types of situations as modeling. How am I teaching my kids to respond to frustrations? What do I do that's unacceptable or that I could change? And I talked about these things with my kids too.

 

Look at learning how to deal with frustration as a process that will take time--maybe years. As they learn to deal with one level of frustrations, harder ones will come along and they'll have to learn again. Think of this as an opportunity to walk through life with your children, to help them become an adult who knows how to handle frustration--and knows how to handle it when he or she blows it too, since none of us are perfect!

 

Merry :-)

[momma aimee]

i need to work with him more on his tools.

 

i do scribe his math -- all he writes is phonics and only single words we skip sentences. i try not to demand too much or let his fine motor issues 'limit' him academically.

 

he has been better recently -- but i know we need to tackle a lot of this ....

[Jennifer-72]

I realize this is a bit late, but have you ever tried talking to him about how his brain works? We started doing the Mind Up curriculum this year. It gives children some basic info on how their brains work and how they can help themselves to stay better regulated. It has been interesting to see how empowering that knowledge has been to ds.

 

Another book that maybe a helpful read is The Whole Brain Child.

[momma aimee]

I realize this is a bit late, but have you ever tried talking to him about how his brain works? We started doing the Mind Up curriculum this year. It gives children some basic info on how their brains work and how they can help themselves to stay better regulated. It has been interesting to see how empowering that knowledge has been to ds.

 

Another book that maybe a helpful read is The Whole Brain Child.

 

i just encountered the Mind Up Curriculum -- is it worth it, are you seeing a differrnce

[Jennifer-72]

 

 

i just encountered the Mind Up Curriculum -- is it worth it, are you seeing a differrnce

 

 

It has made a difference here and I am very happy that I added it this year. I did do lots of work last year on overall emotional regulation with the book Zones of Regulation. Mind up has been a nice way to tie in all he has learned from Zones.

 

You could probably piece together enough from The Whole Brain Child and the book 10 Mindful Minutes, both of which should be available from your library. Another book with lots of mindfulness activities is The Mindful Child

[DyslexicParent]

Thanks for the book suggestions. I'm trying to find the time to continue reading The Well-Trained Mind and The Mislabeled Child, but I have put Goldie Hawn's audiobook CD on order.

You could probably piece together enough from The Whole Brain Child and the book 10 Mindful Minutes, both of which should be available from your library.

[momma aimee]

It has made a difference here and I am very happy that I added it this year. I did do lots of work last year on overall emotional regulation with the book Zones of Regulation. Mind up has been a nice way to tie in all he has learned from Zones.

 

You could probably piece together enough from The Whole Brain Child and the book 10 Mindful Minutes, both of which should be available from your library. Another book with lots of mindfulness activities is The Mindful Child

 

thanks so much. i added them to my reading list / amazon.com wish list. I will request them via ILL and read up. thanks so much, i apperciapte the support

[Terabith]

I started this thread in the K-8 area and a learned momma suggest i post here, this is the orginal post plus more:

 

yesterday my DS 7 was melting over everything. everything. not mad (that i find better able to handle than the heart breaking sad or the extream frustration . school is so hard. i think the one think the ONLY think keeping me from sending him to school is the very real fear he'd be behind. also -- really -- school would not help -- i'd just be getting called in to deal with the melts and fighting home work all night every night.

 

constant melts, constant fights -- he has to argue every word i say and cry about everything.

 

this is not how i envisioned home school.

 

​he can handle the work, he just doesn't want to. it is pulling teeth to get him to write anything ..

 

ADD medication has made it better, a lot better, but it is still not what i "saw" when i thought of when i think of homeschooling.

 

​I know i need to work on character and cheerfulness BUTTTTTTT when i try star charts or anything like that, it seems to make thing worse. he is so easy to frustrate (not with the work but with having to do the work -- he is not struggling with the academics, but he is struggling with the actual "do it" part -- he doesn't want to do anything though it is not too hard for him

 

the problem is i have done things like GREEN YELLOW, and RED -- but when he gets moved to YELLOW (warning) he melts down and get so frustrated that it makes the behavior worse -- not better. it seems like any time his behavior or 'tude start to fail -- any thing i do to comont on it, warn him about it, etc only make it worse rather than leading to a recovery. :( I am not sure where to go with him, or what to try.

 

he is medicated for ADD and Depression and in general the depression is getting better

 

we see a nueropsychitrist in Dec too.

 

 

I have no advice, but I wanted to give you hugs. :grouphug: I can SO relate. I have a seven year old with the exact same issues. I wish we were closer and we could have a playdate and you and I could drink lots of wine and eat lots of chocolate! I'm appreciating the advice here. I'm definitely going to investigate the MindUP curriculum. Can you buy it for a single family, as opposed to a school?

[Jennifer-72]

 

 

 

I have no advice, but I wanted to give you hugs. :grouphug: I can SO relate. I have a seven year old with the exact same issues. I wish we were closer and we could have a playdate and you and I could drink lots of wine and eat lots of chocolate! I'm appreciating the advice here. I'm definitely going to investigate the MindUP curriculum. Can you buy it for a single family, as opposed to a school?

 

 

Yes, you can get it on amazon. Here is a link http://www.amazon.com/The-MindUP-Curriculum-Brain-Focused-Learning-/dp/0545267129/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1357524826&sr=8-1&keywords=Mind+up I found it at a local teacher store.

 

Incorporating the daily core practice of breath work has done wonders for ds's focus and anxiety. I hope you ladies will have at least as much success as we have had.

[momma aimee]

 

 

I have no advice, but I wanted to give you hugs. :grouphug: I can SO relate. I have a seven year old with the exact same issues. I wish we were closer and we could have a playdate and you and I could drink lots of wine and eat lots of chocolate! I'm appreciating the advice here. I'm definitely going to investigate the MindUP curriculum. Can you buy it for a single family, as opposed to a school?

 

i haven't looked at it yet, just added it to my TO READ LIST but this --- http://www.amazon.com/The-MindUP-Curriculum-Brain-Focused-Learning/dp/0545267129/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=C535EU8MN7IR&coliid=IFXIAIQ8I4NX8 -- is on amazon.com -- it looks like it could be a single child / family. BUT I don't know i haven't read it yet. I plan to request it ILL. I find that most things i can find on Amazon.com (like this curr book) I can request ILL and look at before i buy.

 

i have a couple of books on request, once i get them and read them, so i can return them , i plan to start on this list of books.

 

and reL OP

 

I do have to admit now that the SSRI has kicked in (took all 8 weeks to see effect) things are some what better -- I know most do not agree with medication for kids, but wow oh wow the difference. i know it is not the solution but it sure allows us a "some what level" playing ground so we can TEACH self control, and self soothing and so on -- he needed the meds to get him to a point i could even work with in on personally controlling himself

[Terabith]

No judgment here. That was our experience as well. And frankly, after seeing the difference, I don't have a lot of intention of taking her off it unless there is a need or the dr suggests doing so.

[momma aimee]

No judgment here. That was our experience as well. And frankly, after seeing the difference, I don't have a lot of intention of taking her off it unless there is a need or the dr suggests doing so.

 

thanks, that is how we feel too -- he is so much happier -- not just to deal with, but HIM happier -- :hurray: