Alison in KY Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I've heard SWB's writing cd and skimmed through WWE. We are currently working through double time on WWE level 1. My son is real writing phobic,he'll soon be turning 10. I like the look of WT1 but on the sample, for the last day it asks you to write the story in your own words...that's where my son would freak out and have a melt down. However, I feel like I need to show progress in this area because DH isn't totally behind this homeschooling thing. He's seen another child's writing from PS and he's talking about how far behind my DS is. It's a battle at our house,I think I'm doing things as my son is ready for it but since everything isn't grade 3 or 4 standard "schoolish" stuff then husband thinks we're not making progress. Help! Another thing I like about WT is that it includes some grammar and punctuation....things we need more of. Anyone? Alison in KY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I've heard SWB's writing cd and skimmed through WWE. We are currently working through double time on WWE level 1. My son is real writing phobic,he'll soon be turning 10. I like the look of WT1 but on the sample, for the last day it asks you to write the story in your own words...that's where my son would freak out and have a melt down. However, I feel like I need to show progress in this area because DH isn't totally behind this homeschooling thing. He's seen another child's writing from PS and he's talking about how far behind my DS is. It's a battle at our house,I think I'm doing things as my son is ready for it but since everything isn't grade 3 or 4 standard "schoolish" stuff then husband thinks we're not making progress. Help! Another thing I like about WT is that it includes some grammar and punctuation....things we need more of. Anyone? Alison in KY bump Also, are you doing a separate grammar program with him? R&S is great, and it includes lots of punctuation help (FLL 1 and 2 does, too, and I bet levels 3 and 4 are just as good). Lastly, would it help if your husband read the introductory chapters in WWE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 :lurk5: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritaserum Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I just received WT1 to start with my dd (almost 9). From what I see, the story they write each week is not wholly original content--it's a re-write of a story they read earlier in the lesson. I think that's much gentler than expecting the child to come up with all new content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12280 Take a look at this thread and read about SWB's "nibbled to death by ducks" approach. That's what I would recommend to you, small quantities of writing consistently done. He's not really ready for WT honestly, and when he is ready, he should jump right to WT2. Actually, with a boy like that, I'd do IEW, not WT at all. I like WT, used it happily with my dd, but I'd do IEW in your situation. It would get him writing paragraphs, multi-paragraph essays, and things more common to SCHOOL work (which is what your dh is looking for). That way your dh would be more supportive and feel the progress. Read what SWB says in that thread, and see how she says to wait on the formal writing program till you've rebuilt that foundation of narration and summaries. That's what you're doing with WWE, so keep going, focusing on it, and use this to get the quantities up. Then, as that basic skill gets more comfortable, bring in IEW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted March 20, 2009 Author Share Posted March 20, 2009 I have the impression that IEW isn't really an open and go program. It seems like I saw a bunch of tapes years ago that someone had and I thought that was IEW. That would be my biggest problem with it, but I might be confusing it with something else. I am not a natural writer, and with teaching my younger two to read, I'd really love something simple and open and go...but I was thinking WT 1 looked good up until the writing assignment. I love what SWB says, but my husband was one of those younger graduates who enjoyed PS and did well in it. He seems to think that our sonisn't challenged enough. My son is very bright, but I don't think him being an intelligent kid necessarily means he'll be good at spelling or grammar...my husband thinks the opposite. Anyone else? Alison in KY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homeschooling6 Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) =) Edited March 22, 2009 by Homeschooling6 deleted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) I don't know how to put this delicately, but if your dh thinks SWB/WTM's approach isn't challenging enough, then you aren't doing everything WTM says. If he's 10, is he 4th or 5th grade? He should be writing book reports, compositions each week for science and history, doing dictation, etc. It sounds like your dh's expectations would be met if your ds were doing those things. It may very well be your dh is right and he's not writing enough. If he struggles in LA, he needs to do MORE, not less. You're doing WWE1 now, so keep up the pace. You want to start carrying it over to other subjects as soon as possible, getting him writing narrations in history, etc., and up his daily quantities of writing. He could be writing several pages a day. For instance, he could do a 1 page narration, a 1/2 page of dictation, and a 1/2 page of editing that he corrects and then does as copywork. I'll bet if you get his daily writing quantities up like that, your dh would feel more comfortable. It's important to get those quantities up, and I wouldn't minimize your dh's concerns. Writing is the most important thing you teach them, and it takes time. Edited March 20, 2009 by OhElizabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcara Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I agree that you need to focus on his writing and work really hard with him on increasing the quanity of writing. It's ok for a 10yo with no writing to do WWE 1, but he should do it VERY quickly and soon move onto WWE 2. If he could get through WWE 2 by the end of summer, perhaps you could do WT 2. Perhaps you could get him to start writing letters to someone (family, friends, penpal) to get him to practice his writing more. My 8yo (girl) is doing WWE 2 this year, but I also have her doing at least one history narration per week (1/2 to 1 page long), a science experiment write-up, and a literature narration each week. She will do WT 2 next year plus dictation since it's not included in WT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Heaven Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 I don't know how to put this delicately, but if your dh thinks SWB/WTM's approach isn't challenging enough, then you aren't doing everything WTM says. If he's 10, is he 4th or 5th grade? He should be writing book reports, compositions each week for science and history, doing dictation, etc. It sounds like your dh's expectations would be met if your ds were doing those things. It may very well be your dh is right and he's not writing enough. If he struggles in LA, he needs to do MORE, not less. You're doing WWE1 now, so keep up the pace. You want to start carrying it over to other subjects as soon as possible, getting him writing narrations in history, etc., and up his daily quantities of writing. He could be writing several pages a day. ..........It's important to get those quantities up, and I wouldn't minimize your dh's concerns. Writing is the most important thing you teach them, and it takes time. I really do think OhElizabeth gives good advice. I would just add the caveat that not every boy will be writing as much as she or WTM suggests. Work "toward" her advice but don't make the mistake of thinking all boys are going to be doing that much writing output in 4th grade (or 5th). Encourage writing, encourage "expressing" oneself and help your son organize his thoughts and the information he is learning. But the pace and output would be a lot less at my house. I think some 10yo boys (prob. not half imho lol) are ready to write a lot and others will get there, but can be 1-3 years *behind* girls up until even 6th, 7th or 8-9th grade. I think lots of daily and weekly writing is a noble goal and I agree that writing quantity (and consistentcy even moreso) is important. But I would not be so quick to think that a boy "should" be writing these stated amounts. My 9yo boy (3rd grade, extremely advanced in all "knowledge" subjects) can narrate with the best of them lol, but when it comes to putting it down on paper, it is still like pulling teeth. Granted he should be writing "more" next year and the year after that. But I value amazing lego, knex building, warrior behavior and hammering and nailing just as highly as writing!!! I find the best results with consistency, more oral narration and scribing for him still and he writes 2-3x a day. 1 - Dictation or handwriting practice (verses); 2 - a short narration or story or journal writing, and *maybe* 3 - a science or history report (1 paragraph). He might only do 2 of these a day. This is partly due to a very full academic schedule which includes Latin, and he is (very helpfully) teaching his K-brother a lot of math. I would guess my girls were writing 3X as much at the same age. But it is also due to the fact that he hates writing and I won't push it because I know his mind is doing all the "writing skill things" and his pen/pencil will follow sometime before puberty hits! ALso, if anyone is interested, I have 5 children - the first three were "A+ Lang Arts students" typical girls and the next 2 are math-whiz/engineering type boys. I really like to *remind* all of us moms that our boys are much different students then our dtrs! I'd like my boys to do more "seatwork" in some ways but I'd like my dtrs to do more "lego/knex/tree fort work" in other ways. God's best! Lisaj, who needs to send OhElizabeth a pic of my finished (but not furnished the way I want yet) basement school room as she gave me great advice and sympathy and organizational tips a few years ago :(). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 (edited) Actually, my girl writes about as much as your pencil-hating boy. Girls can be pencil phobic too. :) I posted all those categories to show that the writing really is expected and that the dh is not being unreasonable to want the ds to write more. We TRY to hit those quantities, but I break them up quite a bit and spread them throughout the week to keep them comfortable for dd. She is NOT one of those prolific, writing-loving girls you talk about, haha, not by a long shot. If she writes a page for something else (say a book summary or a page of handwriting), she asks me if she couldn't just do the reading workbook page orally instead of in complete sentences. No joke! In 4th grade! Groan. You don't even KNOW the ways I torture myself over writing or how a girl can complain. You think only boys can. Everything here is in little tidbits, and it's always like pulling teeth. Going over the top for her and being enthusiastic means the assignment actually goes onto the back side of the paper, ugh. And the lines were very wide on the front side, not regular notebook paper!!! You know, it's funny because I've heard of these writing-phobic boys and never seen anyone document exactly how much writing it is they might do. Well what you wrote is what I have to work hard to get my dd to do. Today she typed part of her book report (the cover of a book jacket, sum total=*2* sentences) and wrote the answers for 2 VP history worksheets. (And you didn't see how terse and short she managed to make those!) If she had done her usual handwriting (copying 2 verses) and BJU reading (sentences or circling multiple choice or writing words), she probably would have screamed about the VP pages being tiring. It just gets SO old, so wearisome, and having a girl vs. a boy does not make a difference at that point. But I CHOSE to do what is best for her, not what she likes, and make her do the writing. And that I know about, gender aside, that you can chose a specific, do-able quantity, a bit more than the dc prefers but not enough to provoke tears or cause harm, and then consistently require it. And I do it broken up in things, rather than all as one big assignment. I sneak in writing through lit guides, writing in science, book reports, handwriting Bible verses, any way I can get it. She even wanted to know if she could write just *1* of the verses instead of 2!!! When we did WT2, which she was plenty able to handle conceptually, I had to shorten the assignments, allowing her to write only one page and stop, even if it left the story incomplete, which it usually did. That might be wrong or a mess-up on my part, but it just so wore her out to do more. I preferred not to pick my battles on quantity. I get the quality and then do lots of shorter projects to build up quantity. I'm not meaning to unload like that. I don't even usually do it. But it's just way off to think it's only a boy thing. I was such a prolific writer when I was a kid, writing books, stories, letters, music, etc., and she's so NOT. Having only my little baby as an other, I have nothing to compare her to and just accept her as she is. Hearing the quantities people actually do with these mythical writing-phobic boys, I now chuckle, because that's what I live, every day, with a GIRL. PS. I'd LOVE to see pics of your basement redo!!!!! :) PPS. Writing is actually what I plan to talk with SWB about at the convention, to see what I can do better. I eek it out of her, but her heart is never in it. Two years ago SWB talked with dd and was able to solve our grammar problems, so now I want to see if she can do the same for our writing! If she can, it's gonna be a miracle, a revolution, a glorious delivery! Like I said, I don't usually even talk about this, because I'm just stalwart and make her do the writing. But she's so more like the boys you describe than the girls. I've wondered if it's something I'm doing wrong, something I failed to do in K5, when I didn't make her color (she hated it, didn't want to). I really don't know. If there were some miracle cure that made her pour out prolific tomes like the mythical girl you describe, I'd do it! Edited March 21, 2009 by OhElizabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I really do think OhElizabeth gives good advice. I would just add the caveat that not every boy will be writing as much as she or WTM suggests. Work "toward" her advice but don't make the mistake of thinking all boys are going to be doing that much writing output in 4th grade (or 5th). Encourage writing, encourage "expressing" oneself and help your son organize his thoughts and the information he is learning. But the pace and output would be a lot less at my house. I think some 10yo boys (prob. not half imho lol) are ready to write a lot and others will get there, but can be 1-3 years *behind* girls up until even 6th, 7th or 8-9th grade. I think lots of daily and weekly writing is a noble goal and I agree that writing quantity (and consistentcy even moreso) is important. But I would not be so quick to think that a boy "should" be writing these stated amounts. My 9yo boy (3rd grade, extremely advanced in all "knowledge" subjects) can narrate with the best of them lol, but when it comes to putting it down on paper, it is still like pulling teeth. Granted he should be writing "more" next year and the year after that. But I value amazing lego, knex building, warrior behavior and hammering and nailing just as highly as writing!!! I find the best results with consistency, more oral narration and scribing for him still and he writes 2-3x a day. 1 - Dictation or handwriting practice (verses); 2 - a short narration or story or journal writing, and *maybe* 3 - a science or history report (1 paragraph). He might only do 2 of these a day. This is partly due to a very full academic schedule which includes Latin, and he is (very helpfully) teaching his K-brother a lot of math. I would guess my girls were writing 3X as much at the same age. But it is also due to the fact that he hates writing and I won't push it because I know his mind is doing all the "writing skill things" and his pen/pencil will follow sometime before puberty hits! ALso, if anyone is interested, I have 5 children - the first three were "A+ Lang Arts students" typical girls and the next 2 are math-whiz/engineering type boys. I really like to *remind* all of us moms that our boys are much different students then our dtrs! I'd like my boys to do more "seatwork" in some ways but I'd like my dtrs to do more "lego/knex/tree fort work" in other ways. God's best! Lisaj, who needs to send OhElizabeth a pic of my finished (but not furnished the way I want yet) basement school room as she gave me great advice and sympathy and organizational tips a few years ago :(). Oh, THANK YOU so much for writing about your experience!! My son is exactly the same way, and yet I have seen SO much progress in his thinking skills in writing, even though he only writes a paragraph a few times a week (in between dictations and outlines). We have worked HARD for the past 5 years on writing. I'm so glad to hear about your experience! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 And btw, I don't see where the quantities Lisa posted are so incompatible with what WTM says for a 4th grader to do. Using those quantities, you could get in the WTM writing for 4th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 And btw, I don't see where the quantities Lisa posted are so incompatible with what WTM says for a 4th grader to do. Using those quantities, you could get in the WTM writing for 4th. I'm going by WWE now, and I *think* I read somewhere (sorry, I can't remember where) that SWB considers WWE a complete writing program for grades 1-4. I wish I could remember where or if I saw that, so I could post it to illustrate my thinking. Anyway, because I have that in my head now, I don't worry anymore about all the other writing suggestions in grammar stage WTM history/science/literature. I'm seeing that the *thinking skills* illustrated by WTM are being fleshed out in WWE (and that my son gets it and my dd is starting to get it), in a simple but consistent way, consisting of narration of a variety of subjects AND dictation every week, with an end goal (by the end of level 4, the student should be able to write a 3 to 4 sentence narration of history or lit., hitting the important parts of the story line or hitting the important details in the non-fiction passage). This, to me, is much simpler, much easier to achieve, than what is illustrated in WTM, and yet it's much clearer to me how the thinking skills develop, to prepare kids for simple outlining after WWE and to start working on crafting a good paragraph in different ways. Ds has been able to accomplish the 4th level of narration skills, and it seems as though we've gotten to the top of THAT mountain (and starting up the next higher mountain), though he doesn't produce multiple paragraphs in one narration. His thinking is getting solid and his ability to summarize the important parts. I think the multiple paragraph essays will come in a year or so, when he starts doing multi-level outlines and rewriting from them. The rewriting will *be* the narrations by then, and they will automatically expand because of the outlines. At least this is what I understand should happen, I hope to find out more at the VA conference. I don't care anymore if he isn't writing 2 narrations for science, 2 for history, 2 for lit., 1 for art, 1 for composers.......he does two narrations a week, and I try to vary it between all these subjects so he practices narrating storylines and narrating facts. All of those WTM/WWE skills are being practiced this way, even if it's not the ideal WTM quantity. OP (Alison?), would your dh be open to sitting with you and comparing a specific writing piece by another boy in grade 3 or 4 p.s. to some of the samples at the end of WWE? Not so much for the quantity, but for the quality of thought and clarity and conciseness of expression (and grammar, punct. and spelling)? Is he open to hearing the argument in the beginning of WWE, about how it seems like little writing, but the thinking skills are being honed so that high school writing will be much easier? That if they practice the basic narration, dictation, then outlining and rewriting from an outline skills, that by high school, writing essays should be 10x easier? I'm sorry it's a battle to do this - I hope you can work something out and convince him. :D I've never seen WT, but maybe you could do a board search to find descriptions of it and be able to figure out if it's compatible with what SWB teaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted March 21, 2009 Author Share Posted March 21, 2009 I'm going by WWE now, and I *think* I read somewhere (sorry, I can't remember where) that SWB considers WWE a complete writing program for grades 1-4. I wish I could remember where or if I saw that, so I could post it to illustrate my thinking. Anyway, because I have that in my head now, I don't worry anymore about all the other writing suggestions in grammar stage WTM history/science/literature. I'm seeing that the *thinking skills* illustrated by WTM are being fleshed out in WWE (and that my son gets it and my dd is starting to get it), in a simple but consistent way, consisting of narration of a variety of subjects AND dictation every week, with an end goal (by the end of level 4, the student should be able to write a 3 to 4 sentence narration of history or lit., hitting the important parts of the story line or hitting the important details in the non-fiction passage). This, to me, is much simpler, much easier to achieve, than what is illustrated in WTM, and yet it's much clearer to me how the thinking skills develop, to prepare kids for simple outlining after WWE and to start working on crafting a good paragraph in different ways. Ds has been able to accomplish the 4th level of narration skills, and it seems as though we've gotten to the top of THAT mountain (and starting up the next higher mountain), though he doesn't produce multiple paragraphs in one narration. His thinking is getting solid and his ability to summarize the important parts. I think the multiple paragraph essays will come in a year or so, when he starts doing multi-level outlines and rewriting from them. The rewriting will *be* the narrations by then, and they will automatically expand because of the outlines. At least this is what I understand should happen, I hope to find out more at the VA conference. I don't care anymore if he isn't writing 2 narrations for science, 2 for history, 2 for lit., 1 for art, 1 for composers.......he does two narrations a week, and I try to vary it between all these subjects so he practices narrating storylines and narrating facts. All of those WTM/WWE skills are being practiced this way, even if it's not the ideal WTM quantity. OP (Alison?), would your dh be open to sitting with you and comparing a specific writing piece by another boy in grade 3 or 4 p.s. to some of the samples at the end of WWE? Not so much for the quantity, but for the quality of thought and clarity and conciseness of expression (and grammar, punct. and spelling)? Is he open to hearing the argument in the beginning of WWE, about how it seems like little writing, but the thinking skills are being honed so that high school writing will be much easier? That if they practice the basic narration, dictation, then outlining and rewriting from an outline skills, that by high school, writing essays should be 10x easier? I'm sorry it's a battle to do this - I hope you can work something out and convince him. :D I've never seen WT, but maybe you could do a board search to find descriptions of it and be able to figure out if it's compatible with what SWB teaches. Fat chance of that happening Colleen, but thank you for the idea :D. I'll admit to all of you that Oh Elizabeth has me stressing a bit. I too thought that once I started WWE, even though I'm going quickly through level 1, that I didn't really have to worry about the other part. Isn't that what you are doing Colleen? Any idea when WWE 3 and 4, and the next book will be finished? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Fat chance of that happening Colleen, but thank you for the idea :D. Bummer. Well, maybe if you just KNOW THAT YOU KNOW you are on the right track, your exuded, unruffled appearance of confidence will help the home situation. :D I too thought that once I started WWE, even though I'm going quickly through level 1, that I didn't really have to worry about the other part. Isn't that what you are doing Colleen? Any idea when WWE 3 and 4, and the next book will be finished? Yup, that's what I'm doing. And sometimes shaking in my boots wondering if it's the right thing, but I really have seen ds improve VASTLY in his ability to succinctly summarize since last fall when I quickly took him through WWE (mostly the narration parts of it, so I could figure out exactly how to lead him in future narrations - I can't emphasize enough how WWE helped me to be able to do this now, and how it prepared him to do one level outlining so far). I've just decided, after reading lots of writing posts here over the past 4 years, that I'm focusing on the *skill* side of writing - not trying to crank out multiple narrations and dictations every week. WWE set a pattern, and I'm using it. I'm also going to the PHP conf. in VA and I'm going to be meticulously taking notes during all the writing seminars - this whole teaching writing business is a huge mountain in front of me all the time. I don't know when the workbooks for levels 3 and 4 will be done - check PHP. I didn't use the workbooks, I used just the teacher text, if that helps any. As to the logic stage book, last I saw at PHP there was no set pub. date. Good luck, and I hope someone will tell you if and how WT is compatible with SWB's philosophy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Alison, I apologize if I've scared you. I'm really not trying to, except in a good, gentle, helpful, prodding way. WWE *is* enough, *if* you do it and *if* you keep moving it. I like WT, but I don't think you need it. But your dh is right that doing 1st grade quantities of work doesn't cut it with a 4th or 5th grader. Your dh is right that he should have visible amounts of writing coming out, enough that neither he nor anyone else would freak out that no writing is happening. Only you know everything you're doing. If you're not having him do enough writing, then pick up the pace and do some more. WWE1 is rebuilding his skills, but is the quantity, the amount of work it requires as much as he can do? Can you either keep the pace up on that or maybe start to carry it across to other subjects? (4th grade quantity but with WWE1 level skill expectations) Does that make sense? Keep up the good work! You'll get there! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted March 21, 2009 Author Share Posted March 21, 2009 I guess when you/anyone says writing, I'm wondering if you mean physical writing, or writing a few sentences on something he's read for example. What he does is: -read and answers a page in a general science workbook -do a page or less of HWT cursive daily -do AAS, so he will typically write out words, or phrases and sentences from dictation -sometimes answer questions from a 3rd grade Abeka history :001_smile: -do one page of GWG grade 2 daily -do two pages of WWE level 1, so he's copying either the short sentence in cursive or the longer one in manuscript (his choice) then answer questions from me and sometimes doing the copying of his own narration sentence from that -write out his math answers from MUS We do HOD for our history and a few other things, so that is mostly covered orally. Alison in KY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colleen in NS Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I like WT Can you explain if WT is compatible with SWB's philosophy? I guess when you/anyone says writing, I'm wondering if you mean physical writing, or writing a few sentences on something he's read for example. When I say "writing," I mean copywork, dictation, narration, even if narration is oral. I actually mean writing *skills*, not writing out math problems or doing spelling words or filling out workbooks. I think what you are doing in WWE is fine - you are doubling up and building his thinking/writing skills at a good pace. I suppose if you wanted to, you could add more copywork and narration to your day in *addition* to the daily fast-paced WWE, but if it was me trying to catch someone up on writing skills, I'd just concentrate on WWE-at-whatever-pace, so as not to overwhelm and frustrate. I have seen some people here talk about doing a week-of-WWE-a-day to catch up an older child, but you'd have to decide if that would be good for yours. If not, then you are doing exactly the pace he needs. You'll figure it out. I think any Mom who is coming here to ask all these questions has a pretty good handle on what her child needs. Be encouraged!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amy from WT Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Hello everyone, I guess it might be time for me to jump in here and answer a main question of this thread: "Is WT compatible with SWB's writing philosophy in WWE?" Let me first preface this by saying that I have read the introduction and Year One of WWE this year, in preparation for teaching a writing class in our Co-op. The majority of my research this year has been spent on the progymnasmata, and not SWB's writing philosophy, so I am not in a position to debate that specifically. But from what I read specifically in her Intro to WWE, and then from skimming Years 3 and 4 just now, I can tell you that yes, WT seems to be written along exactly the same lines of WWE. In fact, I remember last fall, as I was reading the Intro to WWE, nodding my head the whole way through while reading SWB's so succinctly-put words that so well summed up what I have learned about how young children learn to write and what I think is a wonderful way to teach them when they are young. It's all about studying well-written models and then re-writing them, or dictating as a younger child, in your own words. I hope that answers the question! Please don't hesitate to e-mail me at my website if you ever have any WT questions. I'm rather hesitant to comment specifically about the program here. All the best! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 Thank you all, I so appreciate your comments. Alison in KY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann@thebeach Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Alison, I just wanted to jump in and say you are not alone! I have a 10 yr old son that sounds very similar to yours in his "writing phobia" or difficulties. We did a fair amt of copywork and completing 2 or 3 word answers on worksheets last year but that was the extent of his actual writing. It does not seem to translate over for him when asked to write a short 3 sentence paragraph-he freezes up and freaks out :001_huh: We are doing WWE 2 this year. I'm also trying really hard to find things HE wants to write about such as his DS games (like writing a review of the game) or about his Lego battles. So far he has dictated these, I write them, and he copies them. I'm hoping he will be writing these on his own by this fall. Hang in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 You know, I must be having a brain blip or something, because for some reason I thought I had written a little something about the WT vs. WTM thing. Oh well. With the underpinnings and the way they approach writing, WT and WTM are quite compatible. Where they diverge is their goals. WTM focuses on narratives that lead either into book reports (the book summaries of the early years become book reports) or paragraphs (those history and science narrations that get fleshed out and mature as the student learns outlining). WT covers paragraphing, outlining, etc. in WT2, but it doesn't put it into the context of a formal, modern-style non-fiction paragraph about some boring subject, with a topic sentence, 3 supporting sentences, and a clincher. That's why, if that schooly writing is what you want and need to get to fast, IEW is a great way to get there. IEW also uses imitation and teaches outlining (both of which are part of the WTM process), but it fast forwards a bit and gets them right into doing paragraphs. You can keep going quickly through WWE and get there, or you could jump right into IEW and get there. Adding another program on may distract you from your progress in WWE. My guess is even one longer project a week (a full page narration, whatever) would be the start of satisfying your dh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 IEW has great examples of the outlining they use. You could probably just use their sample for fables, myths and fairytales and jump right in. It is very simple, but will turn out a longer finished product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annabel Lee Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 In case the OP doesn't have the older version of WTM, SWB recommends IEW and Writing Strands as writing skills instruction courses. That was pre-WWE, of course. This discussion has made me nervous as to whether I'm "doing it right", WWE 2 that is, but I'll start a new thread so as not to hi-jack. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Heaven Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 And I think everyone benefited from the ideas and thoughts that all the posters contributed. I know I have learned a lot and am thinking more about my elementary writers. (we aren't using a writing curriculum with the 9yo boy currently tho we have dabbled in IEW, journaling, and a few others.) I tend to be a bit more relaxed now as my current 3rd grader is my 4th homeschooled child. I have obsessed many times over the years - and even with my "don't worry, he'll write...eventually" advice, I find our writing activities in need of tweaking often. I am a proponent of "keep them writing" and and it has been more important for my boys to find interesting subjects. My 3rd grade 9yo loves writing letters, notes and action stories (just 3-5 sentence battles, or scenes where he casts himself as the hero (!) ) and will do this spontaneously and then start whining over a short writing assignment. He is much more prone to blank page paralysis then his sisters were. So keep writing. And this was a great thread! Lisa Thank you all, I so appreciate your comments. Alison in KY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison in KY Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 Well thank you, that's the nicest thing that's happened to me today :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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