If you have tried or considered both Tapestry & Biblioplan...

[shanvan]

Which did you decide to use and why? What did you see as the negatives?

 

To me, Biblioplan looks more manageable and less overwhelming. On the other hand, Tapestry's notes to the teacher look incredible. The website looks incredible, too. I just have trouble knowing how much to delve into topics in history. Right now I am organizing my own Tapestry-like study and I am constantly struggling with deciding how much info to require the kids to know. I like the look of Tapestry, but worry that I will lose my freedom to explore (because of my own desire to do it all). Also the price is a bit overwhleming!

 

These are just my rambling thoughts. I'd appreciate reading other's rambling thoughts.

 

Shannon

 

DS-10

DD-7

[anewday]

I think Tapestry looks overwhelming too, but I am hoping to make it doable for us in a few more years. What makes it less overhwelming is knowing there are those wonderful teacher's notes! :)

 

We are using Biblioplan right now as a supplement to SOTW, but I'm finding it mostly unnecessary since we have SOTW and the Activity Guide.

 

To do Biblioplan, you need a spine (SOTW, MOH, Streams of Civilization etc depending on the year). I don't know if their webpage makes that clear since I didn't see it listed on their website for Middle Ages and that's the one we're using right now.

 

The read aloud aspect of Biblioplan is a lot of fun - it promotes discussion and enjoyable family togetherness. I am disappointed that there isn't as much Bible history as I thought (which is why I chose it). I don't feel that the reading schedule is set up well as it's written - there are days where an entire chapter of SOTW is scheduled, a chapter in the Church history book, and a sketch from the Greenleaf guide. And then there's the optional reading...lol. Along with that, there are the writing assignments etc. Those are some of the drawbacks I can think of, but every program has them. We tweak it to work and I probably won't be getting it again next year. ;)

 

My measely 2 cents... :tongue_smilie:

Edited March 2, 2009 by Dawn

[shanvan]

What made you decide to wait on tapestry?

 

Shannon

[Melissa in CA]

I often wax on about TOG so I am hesitant to reply. ;) You have probably read some of my gushing already. Biblioplan I have not used so I cannot at all compare the two.

 

TOG CAN seem overwhelming, and for some it truly is. I think the overwhelming factor is that each year plan covers all classical grade levels. So in one year plan, you really have FOUR different year plans/schedules [LG, UG, D, RH]. Each with different book selections, student activity pages, mapping assignments, etc. It is like four history programs in one. This accounts for the cost, and the overwhelming factor, I believe.

 

TOG is also very full. I don't know how anyone could do it all and still stay sane. :D I am one that wants an engaging enjoyable history curriculum, but one that does not take up half our school day, so I only use the main parts of TOG. We do not do the crafts, the vocabulary, the timeline with people & places or any of the textbook or alternate books. We use only the primary resources, the mapping, and the student activity pages. I pick and choose among the discussion/accountability questions also. If my son liked crafts I would add those in, but he does not, so we do not do any type of unit celebration with crafts, costumes, etc. When we are finished with one unit, we take a short break from school, and then begin the next. I do not let TOG rule me. I think that is why it works SO well for us. ;)

 

As for the books TOG selects. I love them!! It is almost like a Charlotte Mason education done classically. Almost all of the history books used in Y1 have been very visual picture-type books on topic. They engage my son and make learning enjoyable. The cost of TOG can get pretty high if one does not have a good library, and that is because they schedule a lot of books...interesting, colorful, on-topic, age-appropriate books. TOG would not be nearly as wonderful without this variety of books. If you print out a book-list per year plan off the website you can see what books are needed long haul and need to be purchased, and what books are only used for a week or two. Many of the "long haul" books are used in more than one Year Plan as well. I have used the library greatly this year, but I am able to order the books I need online and the library calls me when they have them all collected for me. I can also renew online. So my personal experience with the library has been a positive one.

 

As for the teacher's notes. I do not always read them, nor do my son and I always have discussions. I know he is reading and learning due to his answers for the accountability/discussion questions, the mapping, and the literature activity sheets. Because of these, I know he is learning with OR without me. I am very, very happy with TOG and plan to stick with it as long as I can. RH level DOES scare me though, but I don't plan to start that until my son's in 10th grade...hopefully by then I'll have matured enough to handle it. :lol:

[koko]

We have used TOG for the past four years. I have not used Biblioplan.

 

TOG certainly can be overwhelming, I do agree. The blessing of it is that you can choose what to focus on and how much to delve into any particular subject or topic. The more familiar I've become with it (we've used Year 4 Classic and Years 1 and 2 Redesigned) the more comfortable I've felt with tweaking it. For instance, we just spent 2 weeks (rather than the assigned one) to study the 50s; the WW2 mini-unit was quite intense and we needed refreshing. I rented episodes of 50s TV shows from the library to watch for history time and took the kids to a 50s diner here in town for the second week of our studies. A simple example, perhaps, but a practical one of how you can choose what to focus on and how to add your own ideas. We'll combine two weeks later on in the year so as to finish everything up "on time".

 

I know the prices have increased, but also that they are offering digital products now to assist with that. For various reasons we are moving on to other curriculum choices in the fall, but we continue to love Tapestry and I can see us using it again in the future.

[Rhonda in TX]

It boiled down to the fact that TOG offers great hand-holding for discussions at the upper level. I am not good with literature analysis, so it's a great comfort to me to know that everything I will need to have good discussions with children is right there. I also like having the history answers, too.

 

If I was comfortable doing that on my own, or my children were younger, I might have gone with Biblioplan. TOG, however, better fits my needs at this point.

 

I do TOG very much like Melissa. I make a concerted effort to ignore all the extras and just do the basics. We are still thoroughly enjoying it.

[shanvan]

literature, but still the TOG quesitons and answers are attractive to me. Then I worry that I will get annoyed with all the extra materials and tired of wading through them. I think if I could do as you and Melissa and ignore a lot of the extras we would probably like it. Then I think I'm crazy to spend all that money to ignore part of the program.

 

Decisions, decisions...:confused1:

 

Have you ever sold items on vegsource? I think I purchased from a Rhonda in TX from their for sale boards quite some time ago.

 

Thanks again for your answer.

 

Shannon

[anewday]

What made you decide to wait on tapestry?

 

Shannon

 

When we were trying to decide on our first run through history, Tapestry seemed too overwhelming to me and SOTW had everything I wanted (minus the strong Biblical history alongside). Since we feel the first run through is more for exposure and to hopefully develop a curiosity and love for history, we thought SOTW was a wonderful fit for that. As well, the cost of TOG was more than dh was wanting to put out for it at this stage.

 

We still haven't officially chosen TOG, but it continues to look more and more like that's what we'll be going with. It's so thorough and I know I'll need a lot of teacher's notes (yep...a ps "taught" mom am I! ;)).

[Ali in OR]

We are in our 3rd year of Biblioplan, using it with an 8 yo and 6 yo right now. We will do the 4th year next year. TOG intrigues me for the next go-around, mostly for the discussion questions. The price will definitely make me pause. With pay cuts and job security issues, we very well may end up doing Biblioplan again. Biblioplan itself is cheap, but I do buy a lot of books as part of it. I feel like I can do that. If I bought TOG, I would have to cut elsewhere--the budget for homeschooling is probably decreasing, not increasing. So I'm not sure that discussion questions are worth hundreds of dollars. And if it means I can't buy as many books--is that a good trade-off? I dunno. Dd reads books over and over again and learns a lot that way.

 

I would love to see TOG in person. Maybe I'll look at getting it used. Maybe even the older version.

[Staci in MO]

I liked Biblioplan when my dc were younger. In fact, I bought the old TOG (before the redesign), and ended up not using it.

 

I think Biblioplan is plenty, especially for younger kids, but I like the hand-holding that TOG offers for older students. The little that I've seen of the Rhetoric levels of Biblioplan didn't impress me (but that may have gotten better).

 

It's easy to get bogged down in TOG if you try to do it all. We do the primary history readings, the literature, church history, timeline, and geography. We don't do the art projects, and even though I have done TOG writing assignments and liked it, I'm doing SWB's Writing With Ease (and following her recommendations for my oldest based on her CDs and TWTM) and liking that much better.

 

The way I look at it, I can still do history TWTM way, but I don't have to ALL the planning. They pick the books, I substitute occasionally if I want to, and then I read the teacher's notes to get up to speed. I used to enjoy all the planning, but as my kids get older and we get more on our plates, I don't have time to anymore.

 

HTH

[Rhonda in TX]

Have you ever sold items on vegsource? I think I purchased from a Rhonda in TX from their for sale boards quite some time ago.

 

How funny. :)

[bethben]

I am going to start Tapestry year 1 next week. It took me about 2-3 hours to schedule out for a LG/UG child. I'm not doing the vocabulary and only picking some of the projects since we're doing a lapbook with unit 1. So far, it looks VERY manageable - not overwhelming at all. Sure, there's a lot more stuff I COULD do, but with what we have, it will be enough to get the basics. Every week, I plan on have dh go over the questions listed at the end of the LG activity page so that Dad can get into the homeschooling grove more. It will help dh to actually KNOW what is going on instead of asking the "so what did you learn in homeschool today?" which is usually met with a "I don't know..." I mostly got Tapestry for the way I can have my dh involved more with discussions.

 

Beth

[brendafromtenn]

Shannon,

 

What grades will your children be in for next year and what history year will your children be in for next year? For instance year 1:Ancients, Year 2 Middle ages,etc....

 

I have used TOG Classic(2,3,and 4) and Redesign(1&2) and all but one level of Biblioplan.....

 

Some times I think we get the cart before the horse.....There is plenty of time for TOG in the future if you have grammar and logic level students.....They will NOT miss anything if they use SOTW, Biblioplan, and the suggestions from the WTM.

 

Looking back.....I wish I had waited to use TOG when my oldest kids were Rhetoric......I pushed them before they were ready..... I pushed MYSELF before I was ready for something that in depth.....I won't do that with my younger two....:001_smile: Take little bites.....not great big gulps.....

And remember what TOG was designed for ......It was designed for moms with lots of kids so that all the kids can be studying relatively the same topic in history......That was its purpose....its design....So, that mom could have engaging discussions with her high schoolers and talk about the same topic with her younger students too....without loosing her mind.:001_smile:

 

A visitor from the high school board,

 

Blessings,

 

Brenda

[shanvan]

For next year I will have an 11year old working at roughly 7th grade level (except in spelling!). I would want him doing the Dialectic level. I'll also have my daughter working at roughly 2nd grade level. I really like the idea of keeping everyone together for subjects as much as possible.

 

We are working on Ancients this year with many materials I have pulled together to provide more meat than Mystery of History has to offer. Believe it or not we have also been doing American history at the same time using BF Primary guide (This is mostly for my daughter, but gives my son a good review). We alternate weeks. They keep a notebook with a BC/AD page showing the birth of Christ as a divider. This has been working out well and seems to help them put events in order. We pull pages out at times and then they have to try to reassemble them in the right order. We study geography as it relates to the history we are studying using some of the many materials I have accumulated plus library books and videos. We also add in art projects, cooking, and family read alouds as time allows. Bible study is included in these notebooks too, with key verses from each of the major Bible stories studied (from the King James Bible). Map work I create based on what I want them to remember.

 

Our history/geography study has been very rewarding, but a lot of prep work for me. That's why I've been considering something that will put it all together for me. I also want to transfer more of the research to my son. I would want to do Middle Ages next year, continuing to add events/people in their notebooks.

 

I am panicking over my choices more than ever because I feel like I have only a couple of years to play around and enjoy before we get to serious high school stuff. (Looking at my last sentence -- it sounds ridiculous--why can't we enjoy high school?? Could it be I've been made to believe that all enjoyment ends when they reach high school age!):laugh:

 

Shannon

Edited March 2, 2009 by shanvan

[Staci in MO]

But, I really like it, so take it for what it's worth.

 

TOG takes awhile to get used to, frankly. I can understand the argument to wait until your oldest is in high school, but I've enjoyed having these past two years to get a feel for it (oldest is in 6th) while the stakes aren't quite so high.

 

Good luck with your decision.

[Melissa in CA]

Now I personally would hate to have missed the UG and D level books we have used this year! I would NOT want TOG just for RH level. :tongue_smilie: So, I guess I have to disagree with those who say wait for high school. ;)

 

I also disagree with those who think TOG is too much for the younger grades. I don't see that AT ALL! Not unless you are trying to get them to do more than they are ready for...learning EVERY vocab word, doing EVERY craft for example.

 

And why keep buying curriculum every year when with four year plans of TOG you have all 12 years of school scheduled for you for every grade level? :confused: I know TOG seems expensive at the start, but you are getting A LOT of prep work for your buck...and it's 12 years worth, not just one or two. Yes, you will have to buy some books and use the library, but many of the books are used in multiple years and a lot of the books can be found at the library. I didn't spend any more money on TOG this year than I would have for a SL core. Plus, after I have all four year plans the only things I will need each year are our books...and most of those I get free from the library...no more cost outlay of curriculum plans. It kinda cracks me up that people complain about TOG, yet those same people will purchase 12 COMPLETE Sonlight Cores. :blink:

 

The younger the age you start using TOG the more bang for your buck you get. I say start young, baby! Get your moneys worth! :lol:

 

Can you say "opinionated" with me? :w00t:

[brendafromtenn]

"Our history/geography study has been very rewarding, but a lot of prep work for me."

 

 

Just some thoughts for you.....ask yourself, "WHY has this been rewarding for your family?" Has it been that YOU tailor-made a curriculum for them and it is working? Has it been that you ENJOY putting units together? (Some of us do, you know......;)) Has it been that you are seeing the FRUITS of your labor? (It is a beautiful thing to behold, trust me.....)

 

Also, I agree with Melissa in that the LG and Dialectic books of TOG are great. Some of them have become our "friends". But TOG is not the only curriculum to use "said" books. If you compare book lists of BF, TQ, Sonlight, TOG, WTM, and Veritas......All of them have some titles in common. (I KNOW because I eat, sleep, and breathe this stuff.....)

 

So, here is my advice....as one who has been there, done that, got the T-Shirt....FIRST examine your GOALS for you student for next year...What do you want to accomplish? GOALS should drive your curriculum choices, not the other way around. And please don't pick a curriculum based on what everyone else is using. You have to pick what works best for your child. And only YOU know what that is......

 

With a rising 7th grader you MAY be working on math skills, spelling skills, or writing skills that need to be the FOCUS before you hit high school....Not a history study.....

 

SECOND, examine your TEACHING PHILOSOPHY for your family-Does TOG FIT your educational beliefs? Check out what Cathy Duffy says about TOG in 100 Top picks.

 

And THIRD, Does TOG fit your budget for this year......Things are tight for most folks this year. And for some, TOG would not be their budget. And that is O.K.......

 

And lastly, spend much time in prayer.....God WILL guide you in what you need to use this year......He won't let you down.

 

Going to see my mom today, so won't be able to check back on this....Will be gone a week.

 

Blessings,

 

"Mother Brenda":001_smile:

[Vrouwtje]

I don't use all of what TOG1 Classic offers, but I do add extra books (my ds reads and reads). It has me wondering also about the pretty high price though. Hopefully we will still be using it in four years for a next round and if I add my other ds that will help also.

[shanvan]

goals. I had already decided I need to put the curriculum choices on hold and keep doing what I'm doing, while I think a little more carefully about my goals. Yesterday while searching the WTM boards I read someone's post about considering goals (maybe it was Brenda's) and that gave me the push to sit back down and write out just where I want to focus next year. Its so easy to get sidetracked when examining curriculum because there are just so many great choices out there. I think it's time for me to take a break from looking at all the choices and sit with nothing but a blank notebook in front of me.

 

Brenda has hit upon some of my frustration with curriculum in general - - it is never tailor made to fit our family and I grow frustrated trying to meet my own goals plus meet the requirements or scheduled lessons of the curriculum. Brenda is correct math, spelling, and writing need to be the biggest focus for my 7th grader next year.

 

I do enjoy putting together my own units, but I also put a lot of pressure on myself to do too much. So, I had thought following someone else's plan might be better....but, I think I may always be fighting between what I want to do vs what curriculum is telling me to do.

 

I have already read the Cathy Duffy review, but wanted some real "in the trenches" opinions. I love CD reviews...but she doesn't always tell the down sides or mention who might not be a good fit for a particular curriculum.

 

Thanks again to everyone for responding. I'll be focusing on goals for a while, but this discussion has really helped me. I think TOG looks like a wonderful choice, but won't know for a while if it will be the choice for our family.

 

I hope this discussion has helped others.

 

Shannon

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

And why keep buying curriculum every year when with four year plans of TOG you have all 12 years of school scheduled for you for every grade level?

 

The younger the age you start using TOG the more bang for your buck you get. I say start young, baby! Get your moneys worth!

 

OK, now seems as good a time as any to pose the question that has been haunting me about TOG...

 

I love the concept of buying each year once and being set for all the years to come, just buying the new books for each level when you get there. However, for those who advocate TOG for all levels, is there no fear that if you buy TOG for LG that by the time you get to RH all the books you need will be OOP or that there will be newer books (maybe by 10 years) that you will feel you're missing out on? If it were only a few books, I don't think it would be a big deal but if I were to buy TOG for LG for my oldest now, it doesn't seem feasible to expect all the mid and upper level book choices that TOG schedules to be available to me in 12+ more years for my youngest. Any thoughts?

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

"Our history/geography study has been very rewarding, but a lot of prep work for me."

 

 

Just some thoughts for you.....ask yourself, "WHY has this been rewarding for your family?" Has it been that YOU tailor-made a curriculum for them and it is working? Has it been that you ENJOY putting units together? (Some of us do, you know......;)) Has it been that you are seeing the FRUITS of your labor? (It is a beautiful thing to behold, trust me.....)

 

Thanks! This was helpful to a newbie as well. I'm deep in the trenches of tailoring for my own family and have wanted to cry uncle a few times. Nothing else does it for me though, so thanks for the inspiration and push to stay on track with what I know to be best for us. :001_smile:

Edited March 3, 2009 by Alte Veste Academy

[brendafromtenn]

Sorry, I promise this is the LAST post I will send....I have to get on the road....but also think about the BENT of your child.....This becomes MUCH more prominent as your child is a high schooler......So, if you have a MATHY-SCIENCE ENGINEER student.....TOG MIGHT not be a good fit for this student...(Notice I said MIGHT....)

 

So, what kind of student is your rising 7th grader.....Mathy-Science guy, English-Lit student, History guy, Etc...etc......

 

As you enter high school, rhetoric students will spend more of their time in their BENT areas......For instance my oldest is a history geek who LOVES it. He also has passions in math and economics.....He will earn 5 credits in history including his econ/gov credit....But his brother who is coming along 6 years behind him is a math/science/engineer guy. I call him my little Thomas Edison...He is always building things. He may not graduate with that many credits in history, as he will need more credits in the math and science area than older brother....

 

 

O.K. rambling, rambling this morning.....Hope that helps....

 

 

"Mother Brenda":001_smile:

[shanvan]

I thought I knew that, but maybe in the haze of "curriculum brain" I forgot. Good advice for those facing junior and senior high ages.

 

 

Brenda, I need to hire you to follow me around and keep me on track!! See here I am after looking at curriculum!:willy_nilly: Then after Brenda....:001_smile:

 

Shannon

[brendafromtenn]

We have ALL done this.....There were days when my husband would come home and I would be surrounded by catalogs and plans...And my eyes would be glazed over, with no dinner in sight, and he would say, "I guess we need to go out tonight, huh?":glare:

 

Just hang in there....

 

Glad I could help!

 

Blessings,

 

Brenda

[HappyCrazyMama]

OK, now seems as good a time as any to pose the question that has been haunting me about TOG...

 

I love the concept of buying each year once and being set for all the years to come, just buying the new books for each level when you get there. However, for those who advocate TOG for all levels, is there no fear that if you buy TOG for LG that by the time you get to RH all the books you need will be OOP or that there will be newer books (maybe by 10 years) that you will feel you're missing out on? If it were only a few books, I don't think it would be a big deal but if I were to buy TOG for LG for my oldest now, it doesn't seem feasible to expect all the mid and upper level book choices that TOG schedules to be available to me in 12+ more years for my youngest. Any thoughts?

 

With the Redesign they committed to keeping updated booklists. With the print versions they were updated via the Loom, student pages and all. With the DE the updates will be downloads (I think).

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

With the Redesign they committed to keeping updated booklists. With the print versions they were updated via the Loom, student pages and all. With the DE the updates will be downloads (I think).

 

Thanks for this! That's great to know. So, for example, if you buy year 1 in 2009, you can go online in 2013 and again in 2017 to see the new supplemental books to purchase and download all the new schedules and discussion questions, etc. for your children who have graduated a level or two?

 

Sorry if this should be obvious. That's what your answer suggests to me but I wanted to be sure. I guess I should go have another look at the TOG web site. I'm doing 2 years of American history so I have time to figure it out. Since this discussion was going on, it seemed like a good time to ask. :001_smile:

[Staci in MO]

My oldest is in the Dialectic level this year, so I haven't studied the Rhetoric level, but most of the books used in the RH level are classics that aren't going to go out of print. It also relies heavily on Norton Anthologies for literature. The page numbers and such could change, but like the other poster said, they've committed to keeping their lists updated.

 

I did go ahead and buy the Spielvogel World History that is recommended as an alternate resource for RH. It cost me $8.00 used. I mostly wanted it in the event a busy week springs up on us at some point when we get to that level, but it would also work if I couldn't find what I needed for a certain time period.

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

most of the books used in the RH level are classics that aren't going to go out of print. It also relies heavily on Norton Anthologies for literature.

 

Good point. Thanks! I had not thought of that but it makes sense.

[HappyCrazyMama]

Thanks for this! That's great to know. So, for example, if you buy year 1 in 2009, you can go online in 2013 and again in 2017 to see the new supplemental books to purchase and download all the new schedules and discussion questions, etc. for your children who have graduated a level or two?

 

Sorry if this should be obvious. That's what your answer suggests to me but I wanted to be sure. I guess I should go have another look at the TOG web site. I'm doing 2 years of American history so I have time to figure it out. Since this discussion was going on, it seemed like a good time to ask. :001_smile:

 

Yes, with the print versions you can check the Loom anytime for replacement books for any that went OOP and they had the student pages on there. I am not exactly sure how it works for DE, I think it is more of an automatic update. From what I understand a pop-up asking you if you want to update your DE. I am hoping to avoid DE so I have not looked into how it works exactly. I just know that somehow it will be kept up-to-date.

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

Yes, with the print versions you can check the Loom anytime for replacement books for any that went OOP and they had the student pages on there. I am not exactly sure how it works for DE, I think it is more of an automatic update. From what I understand a pop-up asking you if you want to update your DE. I am hoping to avoid DE so I have not looked into how it works exactly. I just know that somehow it will be kept up-to-date.

 

Thanks!