Harriet Vane Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Hi folks, My dd and two friends have taken 3 fencing classes with the local park district. My friend's ds goes at 4pm (younger class), and the two girls go at 5pm. The 4pm class started 30 minutes late the first day with no apology of any sort from the instructor. The first week the instructor FORGOT to bring the gear, so they practiced stances and balancing things??? At the two classes subsequent there has not been enough safety gear, so the instructor has a couple kids sit out and watch for the entire class, promising those kids that they will get to participate next time. The older kids' class starts late and ends late, though it works out to an hour. As I mentioned earlier, at the first class the instructor forgot to bring any gear, so they practiced stances and balancing things. I stayed to observe the third class so far. It appeared that one kid sat out, but everyone else participated. However, there was not enough safety gear, so my dd (possibly others--I couldn't see the entire group through the doorway) did the entire class with no gear on. They spent the first 15 minutes practicing stances and shuffling back and forth. They spent about fifteen minutes standing in a line while the instructor went from kid to kid showing them a few hits (thrusts? parries? whatever) while the others watched. Then it looked like they spent about fifteen minutes practicing some basic hits (thrusts? whatever) with a partner. Then they all stood in a big line and watched the instructor work with one kid--dd said that was because everyone was doing it wrong and the instructor wanted them to see it right and not form bad habits. My questions: --I think it's unacceptable to conduct class without enough safety equipment for everyone. Everyone should be able to participate, and everyone should have equipment to wear. The instructor thinks it's reasonable to share equipment and sit out sometimes. What think you? --It feels to me like there is waaaaaaaay too much standing and watching time with very little actual movement by the kids. Is that normal for fencing? --I also don't understand the need to spend fifteen minutes or more of a class standing properly and shuffling. These are older kids (12+). I have not taking fencing, but I have taken martial arts. In martial arts there is an expectation for fighting stance, but the focus of any given class was the kicking and punching, with stance being corrected as part of the sparring/kicking/punching. I expected the same of fencing--is that reasonable? My friend and I are thinking of either yanking our kids or at least raising a stink about the safety equipment and other issues. The class isn't cheap. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in VA Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 My son took two fencing (foil) classes and then transferred to Historical Swords at the same place. I have to say your class doesn't sound like it's run very well. I forget--are you in VA? Are you close enough to Burke, that you could go to Virginia Academy of Fencing? It is really wonderful. They have beginning fencing thru the parks system, so it cuts the cost a bit, but it can get expensive. I think they are well run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hose Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Hi folks, My dd and two friends have taken 3 fencing classes with the local park district. My friend's ds goes at 4pm (younger class), and the two girls go at 5pm. The 4pm class started 30 minutes late the first day with no apology of any sort from the instructor. The first week the instructor FORGOT to bring the gear, so they practiced stances and balancing things??? At the two classes subsequent there has not been enough safety gear, so the instructor has a couple kids sit out and watch for the entire class, promising those kids that they will get to participate next time. Starting classes late (time that I'm paying for!) is a pet peeve of mine. This would bother me to no end, though I would extend grace the first week or two and only mention it if it became habitual. As for the equipment, is he planning on ordering more? I would never sign my kids up for soccer or baseball if they were going to sit and watch the entire practice. The same goes for fencing. If he is not going to order more equipment, I would weigh whether or not it's worth it to order your own. Personally, I would order at least a mask anyway. I did not like my kids to share masks. Yucky. :tongue_smilie: The older kids' class starts late and ends late, though it works out to an hour. As I mentioned earlier, at the first class the instructor forgot to bring any gear, so they practiced stances and balancing things. I stayed to observe the third class so far. It appeared that one kid sat out, but everyone else participated. However, there was not enough safety gear, so my dd (possibly others--I couldn't see the entire group through the doorway) did the entire class with no gear on. They spent the first 15 minutes practicing stances and shuffling back and forth. They spent about fifteen minutes standing in a line while the instructor went from kid to kid showing them a few hits (thrusts? parries? whatever) while the others watched. Then it looked like they spent about fifteen minutes practicing some basic hits (thrusts? whatever) with a partner. Then they all stood in a big line and watched the instructor work with one kid--dd said that was because everyone was doing it wrong and the instructor wanted them to see it right and not form bad habits. I can understand the instructor giving each child individual attention on the first week. I would rather he take extra time in the beginning making sure the form is correct as opposed to having to correct it later. When my boys were fencing, they did spend a lot of time shuffling. I think it is important in fencing to develop balance and lower body strength. My questions: --I think it's unacceptable to conduct class without enough safety equipment for everyone. Everyone should be able to participate, and everyone should have equipment to wear. The instructor thinks it's reasonable to share equipment and sit out sometimes. What think you? Every child must have his own gear. You are paying for an hour of instruction for your child. You ought to receive an hour of instruction. Would you join an orchestra and share a violin? --It feels to me like there is waaaaaaaay too much standing and watching time with very little actual movement by the kids. Is that normal for fencing? Well, it was for our classes and it drove me crazy!! Like I said, if you pay for an hour, you ought to receive an hour. Some standing around I understand, as it is a group lesson, but not an over abundance of lag time. --I also don't understand the need to spend fifteen minutes or more of a class standing properly and shuffling. These are older kids (12+). I have not taking fencing, but I have taken martial arts. In martial arts there is an expectation for fighting stance, but the focus of any given class was the kicking and punching, with stance being corrected as part of the sparring/kicking/punching. I expected the same of fencing--is that reasonable? I think this is common for fencing. Foot work is very important, kind of like scales are to a piano lesson. It's important, but it's not all there is. My friend and I are thinking of either yanking our kids or at least raising a stink about the safety equipment and other issues. The class isn't cheap. I would definitely raise a stink about the equipment, though I still strongly suggest at least getting your own masks. If you have your own mask, your child can wear a thick sweatshirt instead of a jacket and all you need is a foil. The gloves are not necessary at the beginning ages. Thanks. I hope that helps a little! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_claire Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Are the classes free or do you pay for them? If you are paying, I would find a new fencing club. This one sounds disorganized and unsafe. If it is free, well you get what you pay for. But either way, I would stop going. Fencing can be very dangerous without proper gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted February 7, 2009 Author Share Posted February 7, 2009 All of your replies are soooo helpful to me. Thanks especially to Hose for the detailed reply. I think we'll probably push for better equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 --I think it's unacceptable to conduct class without enough safety equipment for everyone. Everyone should be able to participate, and everyone should have equipment to wear. The instructor thinks it's reasonable to share equipment and sit out sometimes. What think you? ITA with you. --It feels to me like there is waaaaaaaay too much standing and watching time with very little actual movement by the kids. Is that normal for fencing? It was not that way in the classes I took. So in my experience, that is not normal. --I also don't understand the need to spend fifteen minutes or more of a class standing properly and shuffling. These are older kids (12+). I have not taking fencing, but I have taken martial arts. In martial arts there is an expectation for fighting stance, but the focus of any given class was the kicking and punching, with stance being corrected as part of the sparring/kicking/punching. I expected the same of fencing--is that reasonable? Yes, it's reasonable to spend that much time standing properly and "shuffling." Fencers have to learn to "shuffle" properly; also, the practice helps train/strengthen the muscles. My friend and I are thinking of either yanking our kids or at least raising a stink about the safety equipment and other issues. The class isn't cheap. My main concern is not having enough equipment for each student, so I would agree with you about talking to the instructor, very politely and respectfully :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted February 7, 2009 Share Posted February 7, 2009 Ds has been taking fencing since last September. In ds's class it is normal to not even get to hold a foil until about 3-4 weeks into the class if you're a beginner (it's a mixed class with total beginners/continuing beginners) Footwork is the BIG thing in fencing. As a discipline, it's a lot like ballet. You spend a lot of time on the foundation movements, and then get to do the dance/fencing bout. His class is 1.5h long and they easily spend the first 1/2 hour on footwork, practicing proper lunges, attack footwork, retreat footwork, ballestra lunges etc. Before that they work general warm up & stretches. Fencing is very tough on the quads as the en garde position requires nice soft bent knees. Regarding safety - the rule at ds's class is that if a person around you is not masked, the tip of your foil must be touching the floor. Violations result in the requirement to sit out the rest of the class. There are enough jackets, masks and foils for everyone. By around week 5 or 6, they do little bouts with each other at the end of a class. On the last class of a 12 week set, they each get a turn to be wired to the electronic scoring gear & use wired foils for a real match. hth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punkinelly Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 That would make me nuts. They should all be participating, and in fencing, footwork is very important. It is not just shuffling if it is done right, but I imagine it looks that way. LOL First year students should do a lot of footwork practice and should practice it daily because it needs to be second nature in order to be useful, ykwim? Then the child can focus on the rest without worrying about his feet. Fifteen minutes a class is not too much at all. That class sounds very unprofessional, imho. If they don't have enough equipment, they should either buy some or have fewer students. They cannot learn just by watching most of the time. My son is a fencing student and instructor and this would drive him nuts, so I shall not tell him about it. LOL He is a perfectionist and thinks that teachers like the one you described are ruining the sport by not teaching it correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxMom Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 On the lateness: we had the same issue with a gymnastics class - lateness, no show (because of meets, but no notification), "closing" due to heat (no notification). After it did not improve, we did not return. As far as safety equipment, my thought is that the class size should be limited to the amount of equipment available. Period. I know nothing of fencing in particular, but if they are not prepared to limit the class size, then the kids should warm up together, then be broken up in groups to work on different skills (one requiring equipment, one not) and then switch after a period, if that seems appropriate for the sport. It sounds like your rec program is about as competent as ours, which is not saying much. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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