lovemykids Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I am very busy with a toddler, Ker, 2nd grader plus my 4th grader...is it too much to ask that she do more on her own? My fourth grade dd knows what she needs to do, and doesn't need my involvement on many of her assignments. Yet, she still waits on me to hold her hand and sit her down with her work load. Am I being unreasonable to think she should take more intiative on her own?? I am starting to think I am doing her a disservice by keeping her home. This is fourth grade, and the ante is up...but I'm not seeing the progression in her work. She is very slow and would always rather play, draw, or read science books. I'm worried she would drown in PS if she should ever have to go.... her grades in TT5 math are excellent, yet she misses a lot of problems in Spectrum 4 math. :confused: Writing is frustrating and super slow...I hear they are doing three book reports a week in PS. I don't know what to think. thoughts?:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafiki Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I am very busy with a toddler, Ker, 2nd grader plus my 4th grader...is it too much to ask that she do more on her own? My fourth grade dd knows what she needs to do, and doesn't need my involvement on many of her assignments. Yet, she still waits on me to hold her hand and sit her down with her work load. Am I being unreasonable to think she should take more intiative on her own??I am starting to think I am doing her a disservice by keeping her home. This is fourth grade, and the ante is up...but I'm not seeing the progression in her work. She is very slow and would always rather play, draw, or read science books. I'm worried she would drown in PS if she should ever have to go.... her grades in TT5 math are excellent, yet she misses a lot of problems in Spectrum 4 math. :confused: Writing is frustrating and super slow...I hear they are doing three book reports a week in PS. I don't know what to think. thoughts?:confused: Well, it's been a long time since I've had kids so young, but here's a hindsight view. While it's important to spend time with all the dc (obviously), it's also important to remember that those younger dc will be closely watching that oldest child to see how she does her school. So I'd say invest as much time as you can in that oldest dc at this point, counting on the younger dc to also pick up a lot of what you're teaching the oldest, and the dividends will be enormous down the road. So, IMHO, if it's the 9yo you're talking about, I think I'd lighten my load not by shipping her off to ps, but by spending more time with her and a little less with the younger ones. The first one just seems to be the hardest - sometimes. Also, maybe, ignore what the ps's are doing???? In other words, YOU set the standards for your dc ... not the ps's. HTH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 It sounds to me like you are asking two separate questions: Is 9 years old too young to expect self-motivation? and Is 9 years old too young to expect independent work? To the former I would say it depends on your child's personality. Some kids are very self-motivated (my 6 year old daughter), some are very not (my 14 year old) and some are in the middle (my six year old son). Kids see value in different things. It sounds like your dd is self-motivated in some areas (playing, drawing, reading) and not in others (schoolwork). Your job is not necessarily to force self-motivation on your daughter but to communicate your expectations clearly and hold her accountable for meeting them. To the second question I would say, in general, a nine year old is capable of independent work in some areas. Concrete things like math pages or grammar exercises should not require you to sit with her. I would suggest making a list of what she needs to accomplish for the day and mark what you expect her to accomplish independently. Start slowly, with one thing at first, and give her a deadline for doing it. Gradually you can add in things that you expect her to do independently until she has a certain body of work to complete independently every day. As for three book reports a week in public school ... yeah, I would really wonder about the quality of those book reports. Tara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inashoe Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 We had this. It can be tough for the oldest to have to sit down and do work, while the others play. My eldest often talks about this. I have had discussions with him about this. What won him over - in 4th grade he realised that he would be driving before the others (!) Since then he has been much better. A girl might not be as motivated about driving as a little boy, but perhaps you can help her see that she gets to do everything first, she has more school work now than the others, but she will also be the first to ... What also worked - I give my dc a checklist of work to do for the day. MTWTF at the top of each column, with the different subjects in the rows. I put X's in the blocks where they don't do a particular subject on a particular day. EAch monday they get a fresh schedule printed out for them. They then get to tick off each item as they completed it, this motivated all of them a lot. I think they feel a bit more in control, they can see what they need to do, and can see the end of the list coming closer. The eldest still has the most work to do, he will to the end since he will always be two grades ahead of the next. In addition he struggles a bit more than the others. So his daily load takes longer to complete than the others. What are the others are doing when your eldest is doing work ? Are they being a distraction ? Is the TV on - or doing something else fun that she would far rather do ? Can you have them do something quietly, perhaps listen to a story on an mp3 player - with headphones, so only that one hears, and your eldest doesn't have to hear. It is difficult juggling the different kids with their different needs. Be encouraged that you are not the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummtafari Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I justed wanted to let you know that you are not alone. My 4th grade ds is the same way. He wants me to sit next to him and basically hold his hand while the other younger children need my help too. It is a juggling act. Debra in VA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemykids Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 Some children are just more motivated then others. My oldest (3rd grade) sounds like your oldest. He just needs someone to keep him focused and "be there". My 1st grader is the opposite, he just does it and doesn't want to use materials that rely on me. I also have a preschooler. With my oldest I use a checklist so he knows what he needs to do, I also have to regularly guide him to the next task. Being the last one doing schoolwork doesn't phase him. Wordsmith Apprentice seems like a lot for 4th. I have it here as I was considering it for next year, but after seeing it think "maybe" 5th, if not 6th. There is no way he would have the patience to do that himself. Just the amount of writing on each page would shut him down without even reading the details. He's using WT this year, the work load is just right for him, combined with writing in other subjects. My ds tends to slow down when he doesn't think he can do something or actually IS overwhelmed with what he's being asked to do. When I see this I invite him to my teaching table and we look at it together. Once I'm sure he understands it, I send him back to his desk (in the same room). Thanks for your reply! Funny, I decided against using WT because I thought my dd would balk at the amount of work in it. I haven't held it in my hands yet though, so it's hard to say for sure. Instead we are using WA but taking it very slowly...I'm not concerned if she doesn't finish it until 6th grade. She loves it and really enjoys it when she gets around to it. I also give her short writing assignments from LLATL orange, and I make up some of my own. All I require is brief summaries, usually from some of our short stories. I need to update my siggy because we have also stopped using GWG, now she is doing LLATL. The whole thing is pretty upsetting, because she could breeze through GWG, but she forgets basic grammar functions. She can not tell me what a conjunction or a pronoun is without prompting. :confused: I try to be in the same room but sometimes I need to tend to the baby, do laundry, dishes, and so forth. It just seems that the simplest things overwhelm her and I don't get it. I wonder if it's laziness because she is very bright when she wants to be. She is like a walking science encyclopedia. :001_huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemykids Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 the eldest is the tough one here I guess. I'm glad to hear I am not alone! I have also read a few mentions of a checklist, I will have to try that, thanks! What checklist format are you using? Anything I can download for free? :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemykids Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 We had this. It can be tough for the oldest to have to sit down and do work, while the others play. My eldest often talks about this. I have had discussions with him about this. What won him over - in 4th grade he realised that he would be driving before the others (!) Since then he has been much better. A girl might not be as motivated about driving as a little boy, but perhaps you can help her see that she gets to do everything first, she has more school work now than the others, but she will also be the first to ... What also worked - I give my dc a checklist of work to do for the day. MTWTF at the top of each column, with the different subjects in the rows. I put X's in the blocks where they don't do a particular subject on a particular day. EAch monday they get a fresh schedule printed out for them. They then get to tick off each item as they completed it, this motivated all of them a lot. I think they feel a bit more in control, they can see what they need to do, and can see the end of the list coming closer. The eldest still has the most work to do, he will to the end since he will always be two grades ahead of the next. In addition he struggles a bit more than the others. So his daily load takes longer to complete than the others. What are the others are doing when your eldest is doing work ? Are they being a distraction ? Is the TV on - or doing something else fun that she would far rather do ? Can you have them do something quietly, perhaps listen to a story on an mp3 player - with headphones, so only that one hears, and your eldest doesn't have to hear. It is difficult juggling the different kids with their different needs. Be encouraged that you are not the only one. more good ideas here, thank you! I try to keep the TV off during school, but the other kids are always loud. :glare: Basically my almost ten year old dd wants to do whatever the younger two school aged kids are doing...sigh. I do think LA is a struggle for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 How would being in school cause her to take more initiative?? The teacher moves the students along like herds of cattle all day long. A 9yo dc still needs direction, IMHO, not to mention the face time with her mother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Marple Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I think 4th grade is about when I *begin* to expect a bit of 'working on his own'. But by no means would that mean all subjects. I think short periods of time are fine for a student at that age to work alone. For example, I would go over my son's spelling list (pretest) and then assign the workbook page. That should easily be completed in 10 minutes. During that 10 minutes I would do something else (work with another student, put a load of laundry in, etc.) But always check to see that the student is working during that time. After working through some sample math problems, maybe you could assign her to do the next 5 alone. Working alone is a process - it will take time to get to a truly independent state. And that probably won't happen for quite a few more years. But certain subjects lend themselves to independent work and you might analyze your curriculum to see what you can assign for self-work. My sons could not do composition alone. I had to sit with them through the whole agonizing process. But we're finally there... If you try for too much independence at this level she may feel inadequate and insecure. She may feel that she isn't doing the work right and will just need to re-do it later - in her mind, it might be much easier to have mom right there to make sure she's doing it right. My boys always did great with incentives - I would have something available or planned but it would only happen if they got their work done by such-n-such a time. I also saved many of the more 'mommy intensive' subjects to be done during the others' nap time. Have you seen the books and reports the public schooled kids are doing? You *can* provide a great education for your child at home. But sometimes we need to re-examine our techniques, expectations, and schedules. You still have time to tweak all those things. And by the time you get to the youngest, you'll be an expert ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemykids Posted January 10, 2009 Author Share Posted January 10, 2009 I think 4th grade is about when I *begin* to expect a bit of 'working on his own'. But by no means would that mean all subjects. I think short periods of time are fine for a student at that age to work alone. For example, I would go over my son's spelling list (pretest) and then assign the workbook page. That should easily be completed in 10 minutes. During that 10 minutes I would do something else (work with another student, put a load of laundry in, etc.) But always check to see that the student is working during that time. After working through some sample math problems, maybe you could assign her to do the next 5 alone. Working alone is a process - it will take time to get to a truly independent state. And that probably won't happen for quite a few more years. But certain subjects lend themselves to independent work and you might analyze your curriculum to see what you can assign for self-work. My sons could not do composition alone. I had to sit with them through the whole agonizing process. But we're finally there... If you try for too much independence at this level she may feel inadequate and insecure. She may feel that she isn't doing the work right and will just need to re-do it later - in her mind, it might be much easier to have mom right there to make sure she's doing it right. My boys always did great with incentives - I would have something available or planned but it would only happen if they got their work done by such-n-such a time. I also saved many of the more 'mommy intensive' subjects to be done during the others' nap time. Have you seen the books and reports the public schooled kids are doing? You *can* provide a great education for your child at home. But sometimes we need to re-examine our techniques, expectations, and schedules. You still have time to tweak all those things. And by the time you get to the youngest, you'll be an expert ;) Okay, so maybe I am expecting too much then? I do enjoy working with her and I realize she can't do everything by herself. However, some of the load she could so easily pick it up and do all on her own! Which is why I asked the question. It's nice to be reasured by others who have been there. Thank you! I don't want to spoil her by not making her live/work up to her full potential, you know? I also thought I could lessen my load by having her do more work on her own this year. But I don't want her to feel insecure either, so I guess I will spend more time with her. Oh yeah, I'd love to see the book reports that PS students are churning out!!:lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree House Academy Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 My son is in 4th right now and he has a printed schedule that he get out each day and gets to work on ...sometimes before I even get out of bed if he is up before me. He is a motivated student - motivated to finish school so he can have fun! LOL Right now, his writing is not where I want it to be, but we are working on that. I have a good feeling that he wouldn't be where I want him to be in writing in ps either. Even though they are doing 3 books reports a week in ps, that doesn't mean they are the type you are thinking of. They may be 3 basic sentences long. It is just no telling. My son can do pretty good paragraphs. Expect more than a paragraph and you are in for trouble with him. :( Anyway, yes, I think your daughter can be a very independent learner at this stage, but she still needs you to some degree as well. I certainly would not sit and walk my older ds through his work the way I do my 5 year old. What I do is get ds started on math by teaching the lesson and making sure he understands. Then, he completes the lesson. Immediately following that, he goes and gathers the books he doesn't need my help on...handwriting, spelling, vocabulary, geography, Bible lessons, and Science (on reading days). He completes those while I work with my younger ds. Once my older has completed his stack (and sometimes that involves a small amount that he had questions about) and I finish with my younger, my older and I tackle the other things that he needs my guidance or help with. We do History together because we use CHOW and the big words throw him to the point of frustration. We also do Science experiments, Language Arts instruction, and Spelling Power tests together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemykids Posted January 11, 2009 Author Share Posted January 11, 2009 My son is in 4th right now and he has a printed schedule that he get out each day and gets to work on ...sometimes before I even get out of bed if he is up before me. He is a motivated student - motivated to finish school so he can have fun! LOL Right now, his writing is not where I want it to be, but we are working on that. I have a good feeling that he wouldn't be where I want him to be in writing in ps either. Even though they are doing 3 books reports a week in ps, that doesn't mean they are the type you are thinking of. They may be 3 basic sentences long. It is just no telling. My son can do pretty good paragraphs. Expect more than a paragraph and you are in for trouble with him. :( Anyway, yes, I think your daughter can be a very independent learner at this stage, but she still needs you to some degree as well. I certainly would not sit and walk my older ds through his work the way I do my 5 year old. What I do is get ds started on math by teaching the lesson and making sure he understands. Then, he completes the lesson. Immediately following that, he goes and gathers the books he doesn't need my help on...handwriting, spelling, vocabulary, geography, Bible lessons, and Science (on reading days). He completes those while I work with my younger ds. Once my older has completed his stack (and sometimes that involves a small amount that he had questions about) and I finish with my younger, my older and I tackle the other things that he needs my guidance or help with. We do History together because we use CHOW and the big words throw him to the point of frustration. We also do Science experiments, Language Arts instruction, and Spelling Power tests together. Thanks, it sounds like the schedule may be the missing link here. I do pretty much what everyone else does in terms of interaction with her, although she rarely ever needs me with TT 5 math. The Spectrum math is mainly review, which is why it's so frustrating when she misses so many problems...still, it's not terrible. (the amount missed) It's just strange that she makes all A's in TT. I noticed you are doing a lot of LA programs with your ds, how is it going? We dropped GWG 4, but I wonder if I should work some of it back into our schedule? Thanks again for all the help! I'm not feeling so much like dragging her down to PS on Monday. :tongue_smilie: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafiki Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcara Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 My 3rd grader is able to most of her work 'alone' while I work with her 1st grade sister. I have to make sure she's on-task because she's easily distracted. She does math (Saxon with the DIVE - I listen to her mental math), grammar, catechism, literature (I discuss with her after reading, then she writes her own narration), and science experiments by herself (I discuss the results afterwards, but she enjoys doing the experiments alone, and I think it's a good exercise in reading and following directions). I check all of the above work and help with errors as needed. I do AAS, History, and WWE with her. I feel like the younger one needs me more because homeschooling is so new. Next year, I'll try to get her to do a little more work independently and then even more by 3rd grade. I also need the time to teach my preschooler to read! Once they are reading well and have a good feeling for what is expected by me in their homeschooling day, they should be able to do a good bit independently IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I love reading these ideas. It helps me to know what to expect when and how to make it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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