Youngest

[Drama Llama]

I put the background in my "Oldest Post" so I'll be briefer her.

Youngest will be 14 entering 9th grade in 2024.  He'll have finished Precalculus, Chinese 2, and Spanish 3.  He's the driving force behind the homeschooling idea.  He's watching his older brother and realizing that he's not going to have enough free time in high school, so he's pushing homeschool as a "more efficient" model.  Which it probably would be as he's a very fast worker who reports spending a lot of time in class doodling or working math problems he brings from home.  

I don't think he's ready for CC.  14 just seems really young.  We have a homeschool coop nearby that he could maybe take English and History through?  But I am not sure.  

I am thinking he'll need

Math.  He could do Calculus, or he could do Statistics if his brother is doing Statistics, and push Calc off a year.  I think if he does Calc, he'd do the AOPS books with some support from a tutor.  He could also do Stats, and some of the AOPS electives like Intermediate Number Theory or something?

Science:  Chemistry?  Maybe Biology too?  

Language:  I am not sure if he'd want Spanish (in which case we could do Homeschool Spanish Academy) or Chinese or both? 

English ???

Social Studies???  If I want to keep the option of returning to public open, then government might make the most sense since it's what they're 9th graders take, but we're open.

Other classes:  Maybe a drawing class, or coding, or keep both languages?  He'll probably do a ton of art and cooking at home, so I could put those on the transcript, and he'll definitely have enough physical activity to make a PE credit. 

Ideally, I'd love to use providers that do the grading, and have some kind of online interactions.  He has some very solid test scores that make things like Stanford OHS, CTY and Davidson Academy options.  

[Terabith]

I'd look really hard at writing classes from WTM Academy.  They look solid, and I think having outside evaluators in writing classes is especially important.  I wouldn't do grammar and lit there, as well, but I really think the writing instruction lays an absolutely fantastic base.  

[Drama Llama]

12 hours ago, Terabith said:

I'd look really hard at writing classes from WTM Academy.  They look solid, and I think having outside evaluators in writing classes is especially important.  I wouldn't do grammar and lit there, as well, but I really think the writing instruction lays an absolutely fantastic base.  

I liked the WTM writing things we did last time we homeschooled, so I like this idea in theory. 

How does the writing at WTMA work?  If he takes a full credit writing class, then does he take a full credit literature with writing class elsewhere and get two credits for English?  Or are there literature classes with less writing from other providers?  Or could he just take the writing class, and then read and discuss a lot of books with me? 

Also, I see on the website that it suggests you give a credit for "Language Arts".  Is that because it doesn't qualify as an English credit?  

[Terabith]

1 minute ago, BandH said:

I liked the WTM writing things we did last time we homeschooled, so I like this idea in theory. 

How does the writing at WTMA work?  If he takes a full credit writing class, then does he take a full credit literature with writing class elsewhere and get two credits for English?  Or are there literature classes with less writing from other providers?  Or could he just take the writing class, and then read and discuss a lot of books with me? 

Also, I see on the website that it suggests you give a credit for "Language Arts".  Is that because it doesn't qualify as an English credit?  

I am not sure, but I know in high schools, some classes are primarily composition classes.  I think you could definitely assign an English credit for it.  I’d probably want to insure the kid read a few books over the course of the year, either for social studies or recreationally,  but I don’t think it’s necessary for credits.  

[Malam]

Is he doing precalculus with AoPS? If so, you might want to look into the AMC 10. Intro counting probability + intro number theory (+ intermediate counting and probability) are more than enough for a class; he could probably cover AP statistics in a comparatively short period of time if you wanted to add that (if you ask Daijobu nicely I'm sure she'll be happy to share her AP statistics material).

For science, if he's taking calculus next year, he could also take calc-based physics using a book like Halliday, Resnick, Krane. For chemistry, Clover Valley Chemistry offers live and self paced advanced honors chemistry classes.

[Farrar]

For the student you describe, I'd look at AoPS and repeating pre-calc with that so he can really get into their system or doing calc at WTMA with AoPS. Or I'd look at Blue Tent just across the board. Very strong science and math. There's no rush, so I don't see a reason to speedrun him through AP Stats. If he'd enjoy it, have him take it. There are a bunch of options for it at PA Homeschoolers and Blue Tent.

It sounds like he's a real STEM lover? If so, I would definitely not put him in WTMA for those. They would not be more efficient. They're a lot of work and not necessarily a soul lifting payoff in my experience for kids who aren't naturally in love with classical humanities.

I don't think 14 is too young for community college, but I'd start very slow.

[Haken]

If he got in Stanford OHS that might be the simplest option for you.

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

For the student you describe, I'd look at AoPS and repeating pre-calc with that so he can really get into their system or doing calc at WTMA with AoPS.

He hasn't taken any AoPS classes, except one virtual summer camp at the academy during covid.  He has worked through the books, on his own and with his tutor, and done a bunch of Alcumus.  

I don't see the AoPS schedule working for us.  The classes seem to all be in the evening, and between sports and family that's not a great time for us.  I'll look into the WTMA calculus.  That could work.  

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

Or I'd look at Blue Tent just across the board. Very strong science and math. There's no rush, so I don't see a reason to speedrun him through AP Stats.

My biggest worry, if we do this, is that he'll be lonely.  He's my more extroverted kid.  I thought that, perhaps, if he took some of the same classes as his brother that would help.  But his brother isn't ready for calculus.  That's what led me to the stats idea.  My thought is that he could work through AP stats, maybe with an online course, and also with the tutor, at a pace that works for his brother, and then if he's wanting extra math, which wouldn't surprise me, he could do some of intermediate level AoPS books he hasn't done, or he could do some coding which might fill that same need.

We'll definitely keep the tutor, because he really loves the tutor, and I think if he's home and I'm not, it would be good to have an adult to interact with.  

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

If he'd enjoy it, have him take it. There are a bunch of options for it at PA Homeschoolers and Blue Tent.

Thanks, I'll look into these.  

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

It sounds like he's a real STEM lover?

He likes making things, all sorts of things.  His love for science and math is less "I love math for math's sake", and more "engineers make the coolest things!  I'll need chemistry and calculus to be an engineer, so I might as well get them out of the way now."  Or at least that's how he talks.  Having said that, he does a fair amount of math by choice.  For example, we are in the car a lot because of sports, and often he'll bring math as a way to occupy himself.  Or he'll sit with his brother when his brother is doing HW, and do math.  If you ask him why he does that, he'll say that he just did that because the car is boring, or he wanted to keep his brother company and so he wanted to do "homework" too.  

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

 

If so, I would definitely not put him in WTMA for those.

For STEM or for humanities?  

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

They would not be more efficient. They're a lot of work and not necessarily a soul lifting payoff in my experience for kids who aren't naturally in love with classical humanities.

He is definitely not in love with classical humanities.  He does what's assigned for English, and social science, and gets it done quickly and well enough to get the A.  But he's not a kid who is picking up novels for fun, or writing poetry.  He does love languages though.  

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

I don't think 14 is too young for community college, but I'd start very slow.

Really?  He just seems so young to be in a college environment.  Of course, in a year he'll be a year older, but when I look back to when his brother was 14, he still seemed really young.  He is a very goofy kid.  

I guess we could try one class?  Any suggestions on where to start?  Would an art class make sense?  

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, Haken said:

If he got in Stanford OHS that might be the simplest option for you.

It might be.  I don't really know much about it, or about what kids need to get in.  He is a very good test taker.  

[Drama Llama]

I should add that NCAA approval will be an issue for him.  I need to do some research and figure that out.  

[Haken]

1 hour ago, BandH said:

It might be.  I don't really know much about it, or about what kids need to get in.  He is a very good test taker.  

I see ... then it might not be the simplest option because the application process is quite difficult.

[Drama Llama]

6 minutes ago, Haken said:

I see ... then it might not be the simplest option because the application process is quite difficult.

Just looking online the process seems similar to private school applications in our area with essays, transcripts, recommendations etc . . . 
 

I don’t know that much about it.  I am not sure that it would be the right fit for all his classes, but I could see him doing STEM classes there, but I am not sure if he would get in.  
 

Do you have experience?  

[Farrar]

Honestly, I don't think having a tutor and your sibling doing work that isn't quite as appropriate for you is somehow less lonely than taking a high quality online course. If you want him to be less lonely, he should start in on community college younger. Or he should focus on social interaction outside of his academics. Or he should do that co-op/tutorial locally you mentioned and use it for electives, extracurriculars, or subjects that he's less into so that he can choose really challenging classes for those.

Stanford OHS is really, really hard. It's all-consuming for kids. There is a lot of interaction among the students, but it's all online (except for a few big in person meet ups and field trips). Imagine the hardest high school experience and then add to it. That's OHS. If he's good at tests, he'd have a strong shot at getting in. I would not think doing full time OHS would be a great fit for a student who wants to homeschool in part because he wants a more streamlined experience.

NCAA approval is not that hard to deal with.

 

[Drama Llama]

10 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Honestly, I don't think having a tutor and your sibling doing work that isn't quite as appropriate for you is somehow less lonely than taking a high quality online course.

I guess I was thinking that they would take a course and then work with the tutor too?  This past year they took different versions of the same course, and in tutoring the tutor would go over the HW with his brother and then give him enrichment that sometimes built on what he was doing in school and sometimes was unrelated (e.g. they took a pretty long detour into coding at one point).  
 

Is there a reason stats and chemistry wouldn’t be appropriate for him? 

10 minutes ago, Farrar said:

 

If you want him to be less lonely, he should start in on community college younger.

 

I don’t see him making friends with college students.  I can imagine him going to class maybe and getting intellectual stimulation, but I can’t see it as a social experience for him unless he grows up a lot in the next 14 months.  I have read posts here where other people describe their gifted 14 year olds fitting right in in college, but I just figure those kids are asynchronous in a different way than mine.  
 

I am at the pool right now watching him play sharks and minnows with a group of kids his age and younger.  He is still very much a kid. 

10 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Or he should focus on social interaction outside of his academics. Or he should do that co-op/tutorial locally you mentioned and use it for electives, extracurriculars, or subjects that he's less into so that he can choose really challenging classes for those.

I am still looking at options.  The coops I have found seem to require a parent to stay, or they are far away.  So, I’m looking at all options. If I could find something that works logistically it would be great.  

10 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Stanford OHS is really, really hard. It's all-consuming for kids.

That doesn’t sound like a fit for him, unless maybe for math.  He’s asking for more self directed time, not more assigned work.  Where he is now, I never hear complaints about the work being easy or boring, only about the fact that he doesn’t have enough time to do his own thing, and he knows from watching his brother, that he’ll have less free time in High School. 

10 minutes ago, Farrar said:

There is a lot of interaction among the students, but it's all online (except for a few big in person meet ups and field trips). Imagine the hardest high school experience and then add to it. That's OHS. If he's good at tests, he'd have a strong shot at getting in. I would not think doing full time OHS would be a great fit for a student who wants to homeschool in part because he wants a more streamlined experience.

NCAA approval is not that hard to deal with.

 

Good!  I haven’t looked into it much.

[Eos]

BandH, no advice but just wanted to say I really commend your process with these boys, however it ends up.

Eos

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, Eos said:

BandH, no advice but just wanted to say I really commend your process with these boys, however it ends up.

Eos

I try.  As I talk through this I am getting more excited about the option for my oldest, and less sure I can really meet my youngest's needs homeschooling.  I am definitely looking at other options for him too, including leaving him where he is, and a couple brick and mortar schools that might be better fits.  

[JennyD]

On 6/25/2023 at 7:45 PM, BandH said:

he's pushing homeschool as a "more efficient" model.  Which it probably would be as he's a very fast worker

4 hours ago, BandH said:

He’s asking for more self directed time, not more assigned work.  Where he is now, I never hear complaints about the work being easy or boring, only about the fact that he doesn’t have enough time to do his own thing, and he knows from watching his brother, that he’ll have less free time in High School. 

It may be worth managing your son's expectations on this score.  While I do think my homeschooled high schoolers have more free time -- or at least get more sleep --  than many of their (insanely overscheduled) schooled friends, and for sure my kids have much more input into what and how they learn,  they still work a lot.   Yes, he won't have piles of homework at night, but there's a lot to learn in high school and if he's working at the appropriate level of challenge, he's not going to breeze through in a few hours a day either.  

 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by JennyD

[Not_a_Number]

7 hours ago, BandH said:

He likes making things, all sorts of things.  His love for science and math is less "I love math for math's sake", and more "engineers make the coolest things!  I'll need chemistry and calculus to be an engineer, so I might as well get them out of the way now." 

Not helpful at all to you but . . . that's how my DH was like in middle school and high school, and he's now a mathematician 😂.

Do you have any kind of local homeschool list with classes and homeschool options? We have TONS of local stuff available here in NYC, including for teens. Since you're in an urban area, there could be lots and lots of possibilities for socializing. (I don't know that I'd argue that the stuff is academically rigorous, but it does seem to make it a lot less lonely for teens.) 

You could also maybe organize some classes with a tutor for a group of homeschooled kids? That way, he'd be doing something with other kids, and you could make sure it was what you wanted depth-wise. 

I know that @daijobu had a kid take a few Stanford OHS classes without doing all of them. 

[Drama Llama]

50 minutes ago, JennyD said:

It may be worth managing your son's expectations on this score.  While I do think my homeschooled high schoolers have more free time -- or at least get more sleep --  than many of their (insanely overscheduled) schooled friends, and for sure my kids have much more input into what and how they learn,  they still work a lot.   Yes, he won't have piles of homework at night, but there's a lot to learn in high school and if he's working at the appropriate level of challenge, he's not going to breeze through in a few hours a day either.  

 

I can't imagine he won't end up with more time.  Their school has a long school day plus a commute.  He seems to have a lot of downtime, judging from the fact that I have never seen him do HW that is assigned by his own teachers, and yet the school reports it's all turned in, and yet he also manages to come home with pages of math, and lots of pictures he's drawn.  

Also a lot of the "stuff" he says he wants to do, is stuff that I can turn into credits on a transcript.  But in his mind it's not "school" if someone isn't making him do it.  

[Haken]

7 hours ago, BandH said:

Just looking online the process seems similar to private school applications in our area with essays, transcripts, recommendations etc . . . 
 

I don’t know that much about it.  I am not sure that it would be the right fit for all his classes, but I could see him doing STEM classes there, but I am not sure if he would get in.  
 

Do you have experience?  

After reading your posts again it seems that you have time to apply. I initially thought that you were looking to do it for this coming fall. My sense is that your child is gifted not because of any scores but because he's trying to change his environment. This kid should be on a rocket ship at least to see if he likes it. 

[Drama Llama]

56 minutes ago, Haken said:

After reading your posts again it seems that you have time to apply. I initially thought that you were looking to do it for this coming fall. My sense is that your child is gifted not because of any scores but because he's trying to change his environment. This kid should be on a rocket ship at least to see if he likes it. 

I am not sure what this means.  

[Haken]

24 minutes ago, BandH said:

I am not sure what this means.  

This is what I'm going by.

On 6/25/2023 at 8:45 PM, BandH said:

He's the driving force behind the homeschooling idea.  ... he's pushing homeschool as a "more efficient" model.  Which it probably would be as he's a very fast worker who reports spending a lot of time in class doodling or working math problems he brings from home.  

 

 

[Eos]

7 hours ago, BandH said:

Also a lot of the "stuff" he says he wants to do, is stuff that I can turn into credits on a transcript.  But in his mind it's not "school" if someone isn't making him do it.  

My oldest, currently a chemical and nuclear engineer, was like this in high school.  We ended up using the NARHS program so he knew that an outside person would be deciding that his work was credit worthy.  He carefully kept track of all his hours doing all the stuff which made it easier to do the portfolio review at the end but also gave him ownership of tracking the credit hours and work accomplished.  We didn't use them for the three subsequent kids.  https://narhs.com/

[Kristini2]

He sounds a bit like my youngest. She's a pandemic homeschooler who just kept with it after things opened back up because she liked how quickly she could get her work done and move onto her interests. She's into STEM but also fine art/animation, and while she will tell you that she doesn't like world languages she'll probably have six credits (3 Mandarin, 2-3 French) by the time she applies to college. She takes a mix of self paced and group online classes and will be adding DE next year at 16. Because she dances 20+ hours a week we tend to keep her English and social studies solid but efficient so she has more time for science and art. Her social group tends to be her dance friends. She will also have some self designed classes on her transcript. I think that is a great part of homeschooling.

And a few more random thoughts for you:

1. I have only skimmed the replies, so I am sure you've been warned, but once you start HS at home it can be hard (in some school districts at least) to get the credits to count if you decide you decide he wants to go to public HS later. Rather than choosing government just in case he wants to go to school in 10th, you might want to proactively reach out and see what would actually keep that door open for him in the best way. Though I'd be very hesitant to take such a bright kid and stick him in the online school associated with your public school just in case he decides he wants to go back. That's not to say government isn't a fine option for him, but I'd also make sure he could go back as a 10th grader the following year instead of having to "repeat" freshman year if that is important to you.

2. There are providers that offer AoPS during the day. I think WTM is one of them. 

3. If you don't decide to go with an all in one like Stanford or CTY, there are a lot of great providers out there that just offer a few classes such as Clover Valley Chemistry. This place is a great resource for finding them so check the pinned posts, use the search, and keep asking questions. 🙂

4. You may be surprised at the age of kids at your local CC. Our local CC has ~2000 students and ~550 are under 18, since we live in a state that offers free DE.

Wishing you all the best in deciding your path.