Oh Freedom, from Woke Homeschooling?

[ktgrok]

Anyone have the dirt on this, lol? I know some say it isn't fully secular, but we are Christian, so that's not a huge deal, as long as it is not preachy on a particular type of Christianity. I did read somewhere that it doesn't include any mention of LGBTQ issues, and that even when people known to be LGBTQ are mentioned, their sexual orientation/etc is left out/not mentioned. My 13 yr old is either Bi or a Lesbian (she's not sure at this point, she's young) so LGBTQ issues are important to me, but we also have other resources for ensuring her knowledge of important LGBTQ people and their struggles and achievements. (LOVE for instance the book Holy Troublemakers and Unconventional Saints, which includes several LGBTQ as well as straight allies.) She also has a great support system at our church. So, I guess that is fine, and honestly, I can't think of any curriculum that DOES include LGBTQ issues anyway, lol. 

Also, it says grades 3-7, but then the next level is highschool, so I'm assuming one can use it for an 8th grader? She does have dyslexia, so having a bit less reading/writing is fine.

So, setting that critique aside, what other issues are there? I'm finding the typical "I just bought this and it is wonderful" reviews with no real explanation of why it is wonderful. We NEED to cover US history. That same 13 yr old has refused to study it, thinks it is boring, it's the same pilgrim story over and over, etc etc. She likes cultures, and I could see her finding anthropology interesting, but history isn't her thing. BUT....for crying out loud she needs to have SOME knowledge of it - we LIVE HERE, lol. I also have a rising 5th grader who is just ADHD and uninterested in anything that isn't a chess game or minecraft, lol. So he won't love American history most likely, but he HATED ancient history when we tried it with Bookshark (In his defense, it WAS really really repetitious - dear lord, how many books can you read about ancient egyptians?????  - but also, what boy doesn't find ancient egyptians or roman gladiators interesting? This one, I guess). So he'll be happy it isn't ancient history. 

But can you really do multiple age groups like that? He's an older rising 5th grader, birthday was 19 days past the cut off, but he's my ADHD kid who doesn't like long read alouds - I've got to figure out something for him to do while I read. I think it has the adult read to all ages together, then the kids at different levels get their own independent readers? I'd likely have the older one use the Journal that goes with it, and not ask the younger one to do that, just discuss with him orally. Then there are a ton of video links, maybe have her watch more of those and do more of the optional stuff with her, but not him or something? I'm torn because on the one hand, I feel we really do find that our BEST times homeschooling are learning as a family....but also it can be SO frustrating with interruptions, etc. Most of that is the younger one though, who will be in 1st, and I think at this point she's plenty old enough to just do something in another room while I work with the two older. they have a version for little kids, and one has something to do with quilting, which she is obsessed with, so I'd do that separately with her, if anything. 

Other options I've considered are:

Notgrass America the Beautiful: Ugh, preachy....but so easy to use! I'd use this just with my 13 yr old, and have her do the review questions book and tests (she has expressed concern that without tests how does she know she is smart? - whole other issue) and use the 50 States study with my 5th grader as I bought it last year and never opened it. Again, easy peasy to implement,  and I love love love the primary source books, and I do feel they try to respect the various tribes etc. But the syrupy sweet preachy stuff makes my teeth hurt, and my understanding is it is also pretty conservative politically? We are bleeding heart liberals here, so fairly well placed to balance out that perspective where needed, but don't want something that I'm argueing with. Oh, and I don't always love their literature selections if I remember right? But, it gets done. 

Bookshark American History I: Definitely worry about white washing with this one, and frankly, it looks like WAY too much reading for my dyslexic kid. It's 3 chapters of one of the Hakim books a day, Plus a chapter a day of another book. On the flip side, no workbook or anything. Biut it seems like a lot, like a firehose of information. I could read some to her, and her read some I guess, but it is still a LOT. And then I'd still do the Notgrass 50 States with my 5th grader. 

Catholic Textbook Project, Light to the Nations: I think these are well done, but I can't remember how easy to implement? I used them a zillion years ago, and at the time you were sort of on your own. I think now there are workbooks or something? Basically, if I'm going to bother using a textbook, it needs to be easy to implement or why bother using a textbook? We are no longer Catholic, but if my choices were Catholic perspective or Evangelical/Fundamentalist perspective I'd go Catholic all day long. Great respect for Catholic education in general, and our theology lines up closely. 

Blossom and Root River of Voices: I need to look at this more, but when I did a while back I thought it seemed a bit overwhelming as far as dry reading? Also not sure how I'd balance the different ages. If someone says this is a great idea I'll put more energy into exploring it. I have been using their Prehistory unit study this year (with extras) and found it pretty easy to manage...not much hand holding, but I liked the way it was set up with "minimum, extra books, hands on" categories. But it's ALL on me to figure out what to do each day, figure out some kind of output from the kids, etc. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by ktgrok

[Ting Tang]

I've listened to her in podcasts, and she is a pretty cool person.  I didn't use her curriculum because you need to print it out. I think it is secular with the option of a Christian journal supplement (or something of that nature?). She may have changed it in that direction.  I do not think there is anything bad to say about it, other than some may not like the Zinn spine. It also had a lot of living books I believe to go with it?

I'm fairly conservative and Christian, but I guess I'm a little more liberal when it comes to history.  History is many people's stories!

Have you looked at Pandia Press?  It might have LGBTQ history.  

There's really no perfect history curriculum out there.  I've tried to find it.  LOL   Personally, I wouldn't buy one, though, if you have serious reservations about it.  It's why I haven't purchased a thing for next year.  Sigh.

 

 

[ktgrok]

Changing Frontiers is another option, as something she can do independently and feel she is accomplishing something, with tests and such. 

[SilverMoon]

I've used the 3-7 level with a 5th grader and have purchased volume two of the high school levels to use this fall. 

They're all secular now. The only religion would be the optional, free prayer journal that is not automatically included. 

The 3-7 one assumes you're reading along with them or reading it aloud and having constant conversations about the reading. Every scheduled day has selections from a nonfiction book and a literature book. A few places there are two readers, one for older kids and one for younger kids. You could make it lighter if needed by skipping some of the literature. My 5th grader read all of it, and sometimes the young reader too because it was such a good story. He's a strong reader and only knows lit based education. 

The high school versions have two tracks, one using many of the "young people" spines the 3-7 set does and the other one uses the adult/high school versions. The literature books are definitely more mature and they offer more titles than you could ever get through in a year, expecting you to pick and choose. The lit is not scheduled by pages and chapters, as high schoolers can learn to manage that themselves. (I'm probably going to write out daily page and chapter numbers for mine. He's perfectly capable but prefers me to do it.) 

Either way adding the Queer History of the United States for Young People or Queer History of the United States would be easy to work in. I'll add the latter for my rising 10th grader. 

OF has been the most inclusive US history I've found for middle grades and high school. It includes so many voices we never heard in other curricula. It's literature based and conversation heavy, which is perfect for us. My only real complaint is the scheduling of the 3-7, but it was easy to modify and no one can publish a schedule that works for every homeschooler. 😄 I loved that it's also one year, as I just can't see spending two whole years on it just to do one again in high school. My high schooler is only going to do volume 2, as he has far more interest in modern times and he's covered the early years well already. 

 

Of the others you've listed the only one that would be even close not being whitewashed is Blossom and Root. I've also heard good things about Curiosity Chronicles. Neither of these go very high in grade level yet if I recall correctly. They seemed too young for my youngest when he was there. 

[ktgrok]

59 minutes ago, SilverMoon said:

I've used the 3-7 level with a 5th grader and have purchased volume two of the high school levels to use this fall. 

They're all secular now. The only religion would be the optional, free prayer journal that is not automatically included. 

The 3-7 one assumes you're reading along with them or reading it aloud and having constant conversations about the reading. Every scheduled day has selections from a nonfiction book and a literature book. A few places there are two readers, one for older kids and one for younger kids. You could make it lighter if needed by skipping some of the literature. My 5th grader read all of it, and sometimes the young reader too because it was such a good story. He's a strong reader and only knows lit based education. 

The high school versions have two tracks, one using many of the "young people" spines the 3-7 set does and the other one uses the adult/high school versions. The literature books are definitely more mature and they offer more titles than you could ever get through in a year, expecting you to pick and choose. The lit is not scheduled by pages and chapters, as high schoolers can learn to manage that themselves. (I'm probably going to write out daily page and chapter numbers for mine. He's perfectly capable but prefers me to do it.) 

Either way adding the Queer History of the United States for Young People or Queer History of the United States would be easy to work in. I'll add the latter for my rising 10th grader. 

OF has been the most inclusive US history I've found for middle grades and high school. It includes so many voices we never heard in other curricula. It's literature based and conversation heavy, which is perfect for us. My only real complaint is the scheduling of the 3-7, but it was easy to modify and no one can publish a schedule that works for every homeschooler. 😄 I loved that it's also one year, as I just can't see spending two whole years on it just to do one again in high school. My high schooler is only going to do volume 2, as he has far more interest in modern times and he's covered the early years well already. 

 

Of the others you've listed the only one that would be even close not being whitewashed is Blossom and Root. I've also heard good things about Curiosity Chronicles. Neither of these go very high in grade level yet if I recall correctly. They seemed too young for my youngest when he was there. 

Thank you!!! Do you think I could use the 3-7 with both my 5th and 8th grader? She’s going to be 13 until February if that matters. I really would rather that than do the high school one due to wanting a one year overview. 

[SilverMoon]

 

2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Thank you!!! Do you think I could use the 3-7 with both my 5th and 8th grader? She’s going to be 13 until February if that matters. I really would rather that than do the high school one due to wanting a one year overview. 

I found combining kids to be far more about their personalities and relationship than the curriculum, but I think it could definitely work for those kids. 🙂 Mine was an older 5th grader: his birthday is the state cutoff. He's a good reader but hates writing. I counted the journal and literature as part of his English. 

[Momto6inIN]

I would not consider Hakim to be white washed. She speaks very frankly about the atrocities committed against Native Americans, blacks, and other minorities. At an elementary/middle school level obviously, but she definitely doesn't ignore them.

[ocelotmom]

If you like Hakim's History of US in general, there is a 4 volume "concise" edition which might be a better fit if the length is overwhelming.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, ocelotmom said:

If you like Hakim's History of US in general, there is a 4 volume "concise" edition which might be a better fit if the length is overwhelming.

I just went to look on amazon to see what it is like...and Amazon helpfully told me at the top of the page that I last ordered this item in August of 2020. So..yeah....guess I should go check my shelves, lol!

[SilverMoon]

I used the Hakim history books with a couple of my graduates, with loads of conversation to balance it, but I chose not to use them with my younger kids. They used spines like An Indigenous People's History of the United States for Young People, A Different Mirror for Young People: A Multicultural History of the United States, etc instead. 

 

Here's a review of Hakim's First Americans volume, written by an Indigenous educator. https://nativecurriculumreview.blogspot.com/2020/06/curriculum-review-history-of-us-first.html?m=0

[SeaConquest]

1 hour ago, SilverMoon said:

I used the Hakim history books with a couple of my graduates, with loads of conversation to balance it, but I chose not to use them with my younger kids. They used spines like An Indigenous People's History of the United States for Young People, A Different Mirror for Young People: A Multicultural History of the United States, etc instead. 

 

Here's a review of Hakim's First Americans volume, written by an Indigenous educator. https://nativecurriculumreview.blogspot.com/2020/06/curriculum-review-history-of-us-first.html?m=0

I used Hakim before as well, but just ordered a sample of OF because I wanted to see what else was out there since I last looked at the subject. I appreciate this discussion. 

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, SilverMoon said:

I used the Hakim history books with a couple of my graduates, with loads of conversation to balance it, but I chose not to use them with my younger kids. They used spines like An Indigenous People's History of the United States for Young People, A Different Mirror for Young People: A Multicultural History of the United States, etc instead. 

 

Here's a review of Hakim's First Americans volume, written by an Indigenous educator. https://nativecurriculumreview.blogspot.com/2020/06/curriculum-review-history-of-us-first.html?m=0

Yes, I'm drawn to using those books! Trying to find a program that uses these types of materials, but is also planned out for me. I COULD just do it myself I guess. Sigh. What I REALLY want is something planned out that uses those books, the Zinn book maybe, etc AND has historical fiction or just good american fiction, AND has some worksheets, AND has some quizzes or tests. So we get in depth learning from quality materials that are interest grabbing as well as true to the actual people being discussed, AND scheduled output that will satisfy my kid that wants to "prove" she is learning. 

[SeaConquest]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Yes, I'm drawn to using those books! Trying to find a program that uses these types of materials, but is also planned out for me. I COULD just do it myself I guess. Sigh. What I REALLY want is something planned out that uses those books, the Zinn book maybe, etc AND has historical fiction or just good american fiction, AND has some worksheets, AND has some quizzes or tests. So we get in depth learning from quality materials that are interest grabbing as well as true to the actual people being discussed, AND scheduled output that will satisfy my kid that wants to "prove" she is learning. 

I would totally buy that curriculum! It would be amazing if it included video links too, since I have one of those learners!

[SilverMoon]

SAME. 😂 Having made many a course from scratch I love paying for good schedules. 💸

OF does not have the worksheets and quizzes. Just the open ended journal that looks the same week after week. There are coloring pages now too, though my youngest wouldn't have used them if they were ready in his time. The daily schedule and weekly extras were fabulous though.

[Terabith]

I love the look of Oh Freedom.  I kinda wonder if you could do something like K12's 5th/ 6th grade program that uses the concise Hakim and has tests and worksheets and incorporate more literature and books like Zinn's A Young People's History of the US or An Indigenous History as supplements and literature?  

[scbusf]

Have you looked at Build Your Library Levels 5 and 6? We did Level 5 a few years ago - I read the books aloud to all the kids - approx. grades 4-8 at the time. It doesn't include worksheets, but it was one of our favorite years of homeschooling!

[ktgrok]

13 hours ago, scbusf said:

Have you looked at Build Your Library Levels 5 and 6? We did Level 5 a few years ago - I read the books aloud to all the kids - approx. grades 4-8 at the time. It doesn't include worksheets, but it was one of our favorite years of homeschooling!

I meant to include that on my list of possibilities, so yes! We really just want one year - my DD is not looking forward to American history so two years would be pushing it. I'm thinking of doing just level 6 for now. 

I think at this point I'm torn between Level 6 of BYL or Woke Homeschool's Oh Freedom. Or, kicking the can down the road one more year, doing American History for 9th, and doing BYL level 7 for her next year, with level 0 for my first grader and having the 5th grader do a mishmash of the two levels.