Accelerated math pathways in brick and mortar school.

[EKS]

11 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

But I'm unclear whether taking higher level math in high school means you skip it in college, or just that it's easier when you encounter it there.  

It does not necessarily mean you skip it in college, unless you have an AP score or DE credit that the college deems worthy.

From my own experience, the second time through does not have to be a waste of time.  It's like reading a book again, or watching a movie twice; you see things you didn't see the first time.

[Jaybee]

From what you have said, it does sound like he's a kid who would respond well to a sit-down conversation with perhaps charts to show various routes. Then he would know you are taking his thoughts and opinions seriously. He sounds like one of those who really appreciates being treated as an adult with valid input and the ability to make the decision (I had at least three who were like this).

It brings to mind, for some reason, a difference between my older sister and me. She would think through all the options on something, come up with a plan, and present the completed plan to my parents as what she wanted to do. I, on the other hand, would verbally process every hare-brained idea I had as part of my decision-making process. My mom visibly relaxed once I realized this difference and articulated it to my mom as how we differently processed things, so "please don't worry so, Mom, I'm just thinking through things--not saying I'm actually going to go that route!"

[Clarita]

2 hours ago, EKS said:

From my own experience, the second time through does not have to be a waste of time.  It's like reading a book again, or watching a movie twice; you see things you didn't see the first time.

Also this second time through will definitely with a content expert, maybe even doing research or application of the math,  and with some professors (tenured or not) it is a different experience than the high school course. 

[Lilaclady]

On 10/10/2022 at 11:00 PM, Clarita said:

In my experience, they only let you skip a certain amount. No matter how high of an AP score or what math was taken in high school you could only skip 2 quarters of Calculus (requirement was 6 quarters of Calculus for me an EE, some engineering had only 5 quarters instead).   Dual enrollment might be able to cover more ground in terms of classes skipped, but you have to be very careful in choosing the classes so that math actually counts towards the math you have to take for your major at your prospective school (matching description is sometimes not enough).

Anecdotally, looking back I wouldn't suggest anyone skip more than the 2 quarters, the first quarter of Calc in college is technically a review of the end of AP Calculus BC. The transition to college was HARD, going from not having to work hard to be an A/B student to working my bottom off and being a C student (feeling like a total failure). Of course the first two years are loaded with weeder courses so those were my hardest schooling years for sure.

I think with most things, it is college specific. My dd had Calc bc in 8th which we then grade skipped and made 9th, multi variable, discrete math, linear algebra and counting and probability and had not had to take a pure math class in her CS course work as all the math courses counted. She is taking some CS courses that are mostly math but her math classes were prerequisites for them. Schools like Cal tech doesn’t allow students to skip as their content is sometimes different but not all schools do that. 

[EmilyGF]

33 minutes ago, Lilaclady said:

I think with most things, it is college specific. My dd had Calc bc in 8th which we then grade skipped and made 9th, multi variable, discrete math, linear algebra and counting and probability and had not had to take a pure math class in her CS course work as all the math courses counted. She is taking some CS courses that are mostly math but her math classes were prerequisites for them. Schools like Cal tech doesn’t allow students to skip as their content is sometimes different but not all schools do that. 

Schools like Caltech have a school-specific test for the content that incoming students can take. My sister tested out of one subject, my husband out of another. 

[TexasProud]

On 10/10/2022 at 9:26 PM, Baseballandhockey said:

  

Another motivation is that he loves some specific kinds of art, and he's talked about wanting to study art in college along with engineering.  So, things that would free up credits so he can take more art classes, might make sense.  But I'm unclear whether taking higher level math in high school means you skip it in college, or just that it's easier when you encounter it there.  

I will share what we did with my oldest, and also ask you to consider other types of AP classes.  The math sequence you list for your son at brick and mortar was so different from our ps. They didn't even offer Calc to seniors. The did offer AP Chem, but when I asked about my son taking the test there with the other students the counselor said, "Oh, nobody ever takes the test.  It would be a waste of money because no one ever passes."  

So, when we homeschooled, for my oldest one ( not other two who were NOT math/science guys) we did a combination of Chalkdust and Pennsylvania AP classes. (Online...this was over a decade ago, so not sure what is offered there now).  He pretty much used Chalkdust to teach himself Alg I-Precalc.  I then had him take the online AP Stats class and the AP Calc class. He majored in computer science, so even though he could have counted Calc as credit, we did not because I didn't want him to start in the middle. I knew he would have social challenges.  Calc I was really easy for him.  So was Calc 2 and he said that was the most fun class ever. 

Now, he took other AP classes which enabled him to place out of 2 semesters of physics, 1 semester of Chemistry, and 1 semester of government. At the community college, he took 3 semesters of English, 4 semesters of Spanish, and a fine arts class.  I was fine with all of those since they didn't really apply to his major.

I think he had like 45 credit hours or something like that. Now he couldn't graduate early because the computer science classes (which he had almost no experience in because I could find no one who offered the classes) had to be taken in a certain order and couldn't be combined. Same with math.  He ended up getting a double major in CS and math. That said, your son's desire to possibly minor or double major in art would be a good idea.  One of my son's favorite classes he took in college was English lit because it was different.  He kind of wishes he had taken piano ( He was a beautiful player) and more "fun" classes to round out the math/science ones.

So in your case, I wonder about having him place out of the "basics" so that he doesn't have to take them in college and he can take more art classes where those would go.  You could still go the advanced math (though I wouldn't advise trying to do an entire math class in a summer,)as well, but the purpose of those would be to make it easier when he got there.  So the answer to your question is both. 🙂