Combining resources for elementary math - help with planning

[dodgeat2]

Hello, I would like to combine resources for math instruction for my two elementary-aged children, because I haven't found a curriculum that seems to meet all my needs and wants.

What I would like for them is:

Conceptual teaching, mental math practice, timed operations facts practice, puzzles or nontraditional practice including logic, games (card games, board games, etc).

We like Ray's for mental math, I like MEP/Beast style puzzles but I'm not sure how find a separate book like that. We like Right Start games.

I don't want my children doing multiple hours of math per day, though.  For example, my son is currently doing the last few Light Units of CLE level two. It doesn't have much conceptual teaching, but I can add that in. It has a timed fact practice every day, which I think is overkill. We could just do one every once in a while, but my son is not a fan of skipping things. I have looked at doing MEP, but that lacks timed practice and games. We do a little bit of Ray's together, but that is just mental math.

Could someone help me with coming up with a schedule for putting different elements together? I don't want to buy all the CLE Light Units because if we only did CLE two days a week, for example, we wouldn't get through the level. I am not a big fan of skipping a lot of the work in a curriculum if I have paid for it. I also like Beast Academy, but I would only have them do it once or twice a week, and I wouldn't want to buy all the books for the variety if it were only one of the pieces I had to buy.

I can't seem to wrap my head around how to make it work, or what my "spine" curriculum would be. I feel like Singapore as a spine would be too much time and money given the other pieces I would have. We have tried math mammoth but the layout and number of problems visually doesn't work for my kids.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can coach me through this a little bit!

[dodgeat2]

Just to add - I definitely don't want my kids having a bunch of holes in their learning, but they both seem to really get bored with doing the exact same type of activities every day.

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, dodgeat2 said:

Conceptual teaching, mental math practice, timed operations facts practice, puzzles or nontraditional practice including logic, games (card games, board games, etc).

We like Ray's for mental math, I like MEP/Beast style puzzles but I'm not sure how find a separate book like that. We like Right Start games.

What of these things are you doing already and how are they going? 

1 hour ago, dodgeat2 said:

my son is currently doing the last few Light Units of CLE level two. It doesn't have much conceptual teaching, but I can add that in.

How is that going?

To me, and this is just me, the trick is to keep what *is* working and only fix what *isn't*. Now maybe you're thinking you need an entire overhaul, fine. And I'm with you if you're gagging on CLE. But if you're hating it that much, why did you stick with it? He's actually finishing units, so it's a fit for him?

To get something that appeals to a variety of learners and reflects a variety of needs, you need a curriculum aimed at teachers in school. BJU for instance would have (in some fashion, not necessarily the way you dream but to some degree) the range of components you're wanting.

You're saying he LIKES ticking boxes, likes the clear structure of CLE, doesn't like skipping things, yes? So what if you kept that and then *one* day a week did your more free form stuff? I teach my ds very free form, and I can tell you it has a LOT of holes and potential downsides as an approach. You're going to be a lot more consistent with structure and you seem to have a student who is thriving on structure. 

So look at your student and what *they* need to feel comfortable and engaged as learners. If they like structure, clear expectations, consistent work amounts, and ticking boxes, then free form every day is a big shift from that. That's more something to do one day a week. You'd still get through your curriculum in a year, but you'd have plenty of time to play math games, etc. 

Have you tried doing that? How did it go? What is his response to the free form activities?

As far as interesting logic puzzles and supplements, oh my. What level is he functioning at? 2nd grade? Didax, Critical Thinking Press, Evan Moor. A bunch of the major workbooky publishers have supplemental materials. Sometimes they'll call them Fast Finishers or something Creative Thinking. We used some Evan Moor game workbooks where the mats were included and pieces and they were fun, especially at that lower level. (They get tedious as you go up.) He's at a great age for the Tang living math books or any living math. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by PeterPan

[PeterPan]

Have you seen the Tang Math supplemental worksheets? They're fun just to add for a dab each day, or you could do a week's worth on that Friday fun math session along with other fun things you found. https://tangmath.com

It's also not necessary to hit ALL your goals every day year round. You might like to alternate seasons of curriculum with times of "math camp" or a summer routine. So then you hit a bunch of these fun math ideas during math camp. (summer, May Term, whatever)

For us the school year has 4 terms--fall, winter, May, and summer. I don't expect to do the same thing year round, and I shift my focus and methods to fit the season. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by PeterPan

[HomeAgain]

You might try adding in:
Calculadder for timed drills

Right Start card games

Pair them up with MEP, and you have a daily warm up (calculadder), daily work (MEP), weekly game day (Right Start).

[Ting Tang]

Just a few more ideas.  (I've looked at a lot of math lately, lol.  I'm torn on what we will choose, but here's what I've come across.)

Math Mammoth and Singapore seem like strong conceptual programs with some procedural math built in.  I've also looked at CLE, which as you know is more procedural.

For more conceptual to use alongside something like CLE, Singapore also sells supplements.  Another resource is Royal Fireworks Press---they have some neat math products!  If a child could do Beast Academy, they might enjoy some of them. 

[dodgeat2]

23 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

What of these things are you doing already and how are they going? 

How is that going?

 

PeterPan, we are doing CLE every day and have done one 10 minute session of Ray's over the past week, and a few random puzzle type problems I printed from the 2nd grade MEP worksheets yesterday. We started these other things because we were both getting bored with CLE.

He started out really liking CLE, but it has gone downhill a little.

He likes the Light Units, having a small book that he can complete rather than one large workbook for the whole year.

He likes the clear and large type layout, and he enjoys the self-competition idea of the speed drills.

He likes working with more than one different concept or skill every day.

We both dislike the number of problems. There must be 15 or 20 multi digit addition and subtraction problems every day. I only make him do one or maybe two, and he still tends to whine or complain. He probably does about 1/8 or less of the daily problems (I circle what I want him to do), and it takes him at least 20 minutes. He has some ADHD stuff going on and gets very distracted.

I think he likes spiral for the variety, but I think it's ridiculous to have a kid practice picking out the right angle from four different angles every day or every other day. Totally unnecessary. He tends to master concepts easily except for the computation - the only thing he has had difficulty with in math so far is multi digit subtraction with regrouping. He would be having breakdowns every day if I were using a curriuculum that had him doing only that until he mastered it, but I also think the spiral of CLE is way too much review for him.

Thanks for your suggestions. Like you said, I think I need a spine curriculum and then just do one day of supplemental stuff. I will look into BJU. I wonder if it is has fewer pages of problems than CLE.

[PeterPan]

47 minutes ago, dodgeat2 said:

fewer pages of problems than CLE.

Have you looked at Horizon?

[PeterPan]

52 minutes ago, dodgeat2 said:

He has some ADHD stuff going on and gets very distracted.

My dd was *very* ADHD too, oh my. My ds is ASD2 with SLDs, so he ups the game a bit. Anyways, the thing they'll usually say with ADHD is STRUCTURE, STRUCTURE, STRUCTURE. Structure=clear expectations. 

It does sound like your ds appreciates structure. I would *take with a grain of salt* his comment on liking having a variety of things in the lesson, because that could mean he likes incremental instruction *or* he likes the clear expectations and the novelty. It would mean that you could consider mastery programs (like BJU or Singapore or Abeka or whatever) so long as you kept the clear structure and gave him novelty.

Novelty would be the things you were listing earlier, like logic puzzles, living math, Tang math, math games, whatever. 

At least that's how I think through the math, lol. I try to know why something works and then shift around between options that also meet that need (for structure, for novelty, etc.).

With my ds I try to have 3 components to every math session (conceptual instruction, application/practice, something novel/fun), so it's still pretty predictable.

Didax has some terrific resources for math. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by PeterPan

[PeterPan]

If you find a non-incremental program that has shorter amounts of work that you really like, you could add on the spiral/varied practice with a warm-up workbook. Something like https://www.amazon.com/Daily-Warm-Ups-Problem-Solving-Grade/dp/142063576X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=32XRSYB4W1FX8&keywords=word+problems+daily+warm+ups&qid=1651001150&sprefix=word+problems+daily+warmups%2Caps%2C108&sr=8-1  I've used books like this with my ds and like them. Warm-up workbooks are great when you want *some* practice and want it consistently but you want less than a full curriculum. 🙂

[Katy]

Have you tried adding on Khan Academy for a supplement? IME ADHD kids sometimes love it & sometimes get frustrated because they have to pay close attention or they have to do a review if they miss a question because they weren’t paying attention. 

[Rosie_0801]

I didn't schedule. We used one program until she hit a wall, or a topic where I had a useful supplement, or one of us was bored and felt like doing something else, then we switched back when that stopped working for us.

Our main program was CSMP, but we used Miquon, parts of MEP and I can't even remember what else we had lying around here. 

[Clarita]

7 hours ago, dodgeat2 said:

Conceptual teaching, mental math practice, timed operations facts practice, puzzles or nontraditional practice including logic, games (card games, board games, etc).

This seems like it's a lot to plan for every week. 

I think what I would do is pick a math curriculum I like. Something I feel like we could make work and progress with just following day after day. When my child needs more help in an area then I start looking at conceptual teaching/procedural teaching, and mental math ideas or practice to help. Then once a week or whenever you get bored chugging through your normal curriculum then bring out timed practice, puzzles, games, etc. and substitute those in for a lesson or a few lessons. There are a lot of ideas on the web for free you can tie into whatever your child is learning or needs more practice at (I just google activities for learning/practicing .........).  

The Facts that Stick series is just books of mental math strategies and games to get better at addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. So, they may be good resources to get some ideas on easy fun things to do when you feel the urge to change it up a bit.

[wisdomandtreasures]

You could stick to CLE, skip the timed drills, and play games and do math brain teasers a couple times a week, or skip the quiz lessons  and have those days be game days (or maybe games and flashcards only just to keep the math facts fresh?). Here are a few ideas for books:

Math Detective. One book has about 34 lessons so it can last almost one official school year. I think there are 3 books in the series. 

Edward Zacarro Math Challenge. He has books for elementary, middle, and high school levels. 

Denise Gaskins' 70+ Things to Do with a 100 Chart, Math Journal, and Let's Play Math books.

Games for Math by Peggy Kaye

Some games:

Skyjo

Moneybags

Multiplication dice

RightStart card games

Edited to add one more idea: For focus issues, you could do the daily flash card and skip counting as a morning mental warm-up, switch to something else for a while, then come back to the main lesson later. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by wisdomandtreasures

[dodgeat2]

5 hours ago, PeterPan said:

My dd was *very* ADHD too, oh my. My ds is ASD2 with SLDs, so he ups the game a bit. Anyways, the thing they'll usually say with ADHD is STRUCTURE, STRUCTURE, STRUCTURE. Structure=clear expectations. 

It does sound like your ds appreciates structure. I would *take with a grain of salt* his comment on liking having a variety of things in the lesson, because that could mean he likes incremental instruction *or* he likes the clear expectations and the novelty. It would mean that you could consider mastery programs (like BJU or Singapore or Abeka or whatever) so long as you kept the clear structure and gave him novelty.

Novelty would be the things you were listing earlier, like logic puzzles, living math, Tang math, math games, whatever. 

At least that's how I think through the math, lol. I try to know why something works and then shift around between options that also meet that need (for structure, for novelty, etc.).

With my ds I try to have 3 components to every math session (conceptual instruction, application/practice, something novel/fun), so it's still pretty predictable.

 

I just had an A-Ha moment. He needs a lot of structure and he needs novelty - I think this has a lot to do with the ADHD and needing extra stimulation.. He definitely likes the clear expectations AND the novelty. I think this is fascinating for any subject- Because my kids like novelty, I tend to want to give them a lot of leeway and I don't always plan as much as I should. But because they need structure, things go downhill fast and they don't end up doing anything if I don't have a solid plan to at least start with.

The 3 component approach with every math lesson that you suggested sounds like exactly what we need. That is why I liked the setup of Right Start so much, but after the middle of Level C it did not work for us for other reasons. I will try to settle on either CLE or another curriculum, and add in what I need to for application/practice and something fun with each lesson. Thank you!

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, dodgeat2 said:

I tend to want to give them a lot of leeway and I don't always plan as much as I should.

This was one of my hardest lessons in homeschooling. 🙂 I wanted to be so open ended and exploratory and romantic and idealistic and all that jazz, and really it was my (ahem) ADHD talking. I had to learn to embrace structure *myself* and then I could understand when to use structure and when to use novelty. That's why I like May Term and doing each semester/season its own way, because it lets me acknowledge that need for variety and change. 

1 hour ago, dodgeat2 said:

I just had an A-Ha moment. He needs a lot of structure and he needs novelty - I think this has a lot to do with the ADHD and needing extra stimulation..

Exactly! As you read about executive function (EF), you'll see that he needs structure and feels more secure with structure but can't necessarily create his own structure. So you get these grand plans and expectations (on our part or theirs as they grow) but difficulty following through. So you get honest about it and you figure out how much structure *you* need as a teacher reasonably to get your grand intentions done, and sometimes you take a less than ideal product that *gives* you the structure you need. Then you get creative and pizzaz that up. And the magic is how you do that and your balance, which is what you bring to it. 🙂 

1 hour ago, dodgeat2 said:

That is why I liked the setup of Right Start so much, but after the middle of Level C it did not work for us for other reasons.

I taught my dd with RightStart, then tried CLE, went to BJU. I was able to get BJU to work. Now it's a new update, very wow, so I guess see what you think. The thing that helped us finally sort it out was trying placement tests. They are free and give you a good feel for how each publisher approaches the material. Later (pre-algebra ish) we went to TT and then to MUS. MUS is really fine too. Don't put a ton of stock in reviews, because reviews don't tell the whole story. You can slog a kid through a conceptually challenging curriculum (say Singapore) and they barely get it and have just average scores, or you can have an above average kid who goes through a really basic curriculum (like MUS) and has exceptional scores because they happen to be amazing problem solvers, amazing with visualizing, etc.

So if you're drawn to MUS (and I'm not saying you should be), that's fine. It's not what the curriculum is but what you do with it. There is SO much fun stuff you can do in your math time, and all you (probably) need is something that gets in there and gets it done. Horizon, Abeka, BJU, MUS, whatever you look at and like. 

Ronit Bird has a free Card Games ebook and some of the games are brilliant. I particularly recommend her Positive/Negative Turnovers game. The cards she pictures are unusual looking, sort of narrow, and they're called "ante" poker playing cards. 

Well have fun. Sounds like you're figuring it out. 🙂