DE foreign languages and college admissions

[kokotg]

I've never asked this before, because it's always felt like a very nit picky sort of question, yet I've always wondered, so I'm finally going to ask and see if anyone knows. Situation: all of my kids so far have started Spanish at home somehow or other (tutor or an online class) and then moved to DE  in 11th grade. We've yet to crack the code of how to place any higher than second semester Spanish on the university's placement exam. My kid who had YEARS of private tutoring placed into second semester. My kid who had Spanish 1 and 2 at GA virtual school placed into second semester. My kid who did the exact same GA virtual school classes and now has a 100 average in WTM Academy Spanish 3 ALSO placed into 2nd semester. He tells me the placement test was pretty much all vocab; no verb tenses at all. I think they use a standardized curriculum for all the Spanish classes, so my guess is that the placement test is very tailored to that; they want to be able to assume everyone knows all the material covered in their Spanish 1, 2, etc. This is all fine; so far they've all had a very easy time with DE Spanish but also good experiences; I don't want them in over their heads because I know college language classes can move really fast.

But my question is...if a college recommends a certain number of credits of a foreign language in high school, do they care that my kids appear to be "starting over" at Spanish 2 again when they move to DE classes? Or is it understood that college classes are a different beast? Like if they want to apply to colleges that recommend 4 years of a foreign language in high school, is there any value in completing through a 4th semester college class (which would mean taking 3 semesters DE in addition to 3 years previously in my 10th grader's case, since he took 1 and 2 in middle school). Or does it make it more sense to cut it off after 4 credits and use the extra time for other DE classes (assuming he has more interest in those than in continuing Spanish)?

Edited March 21, 2022 by kokotg

[KSera]

I think it depends if you want all their transferred DE credit to cover their future college’s foreign language requirement. If so, you would need to go up through a higher level of college foreign language. Otherwise, they will need to take more at the college they go to if their degree requires foreign language. My kid had good success with high placement at college after taking HSA for Spanish, fwiw. 

[kokotg]

2 minutes ago, KSera said:

I think it depends if you want all their transferred DE credit to cover their future college’s foreign language requirement. If so, you would need to go up through a higher level of college foreign language. Otherwise, they will need to take more at the college they go to if their degree requires foreign language. My kid had good success with high placement at college after taking HSA for Spanish, fwiw. 

I'm thinking more of just how they look at it for admissions purposes at selective colleges than for placement. Though that's another thing to think about. My oldest had three semesters DE and didn't have to take any language at his college; I know at at least one college he's considering my current senior will be 2 credit hours short because he just took 2 semesters. 

[Farrar]

How would admissions know where your kid placed? Typically you don't take the placement test until you're there. Admissions plays no role.

I'm curious was this all at the same university? When I was in college, you could either take the placement test or the exemption test. I was an idiot and just went in and asked for the exemption. I was one of only a tiny number of students taking it. Everyone else took the placement exam, lol. I had this moment of panic but they were like, we'll just place you if you don't exempt, so I was like, um, why doesn't everyone do it? And as it turned out, I think I would have fared poorly on the placement exam - it was all rigid fill in the blank vocabulary. But the exemption was a dictation, a couple of open ended writing questions, and a ten minute conversation in language with the teaching assistant. Well, that was way easier than remembering a specific tense for a specific vocabulary word. My, "I can just babble in a language and get my meaning across" skills are great.

[blue plaid]

I have the same/similar question so hope its ok if I jump in.  For me it is not about eventual placement when they go to college, but rather if my kid takes say Spanish 1 and 2 at home and then places into second semester Spanish for dual enrollment, do the colleges he eventually applies to see this as 2 years of foreign language (ie, the dual enrollment as just a repeat of Spanish 2) or see this as 3 years/credits of foreign language?  I would like for him to have more than 2 credits of foreign language on his transcript when he applies to college -- more for a strong transcript for admission rather than for placement at his eventual college.  My local cc from their website places kids with one year of foreign language in high school with a grade of A into first semester Spanish.  How do I handle that on a high school transcript?

[kokotg]

52 minutes ago, Farrar said:

How would admissions know where your kid placed? Typically you don't take the placement test until you're there. Admissions plays no role.

 

I'm saying that when they apply to colleges senior year after doing DE Spanish, those colleges will see on their transcripts that they took--in my 10th grader's case--Spanish 1 and 2 in middle school, Spanish 3 in 10th grade, and then took Spanish 1002 junior year DE (which is supposed to be the equivalent of Spanish 2). So is a college that wants 4 years of a foreign language going to "count" the Spanish done before DE if the student doesn't get to 4th semester college level language classes? I mean when they're evaluating how rigorous the high school course schedule was for admission, putting aside concerns about placement into college classes.

ETA: yes, this was all at the same DE university

Edited March 21, 2022 by kokotg

[kokotg]

11 minutes ago, blue plaid said:

I have the same/similar question so hope its ok if I jump in.  For me it is not about eventual placement when they go to college, but rather if my kid takes say Spanish 1 and 2 at home and then places into second semester Spanish for dual enrollment, do the colleges he eventually applies to see this as 2 years of foreign language (ie, the dual enrollment as just a repeat of Spanish 2) or see this as 3 years/credits of foreign language?  I would like for him to have more than 2 credits of foreign language on his transcript when he applies to college -- more for a strong transcript for admission rather than for placement at his eventual college.  My local cc from their website places kids with one year of foreign language in high school with a grade of A into first semester Spanish.  How do I handle that on a high school transcript?

yes--that's my question, too--I think you phrased it better 🙂

FWIW, I've done this with two kids already, and I absolutely put all their Spanish done in high school pre DE on the transcripts. With my oldest I encouraged him to finish through 4th semester DE just so there was no question that he officially had 4 full credits. With my next kid he did 2 semesters DE, starting with 1002, so Spanish 1, 2 and then 1002 and 2001 (or whatever they call it--basically 4 credits of Spanish, but through a third semester college course)...I wasn't as worried about it with him because he's going for music performance and his academic stuff takes second place to his audition for admission purposes. So it's really my 10th grader that I'm wondering how I should advise. He's good with languages and could easily just do 3 semesters of DE Spanish, but I don't know if it's all helpful or necessary or if his time would be better spent somewhere else. Not that knowing more Spanish would ever be a BAD thing. But there are only so many semesters of high school.

[Farrar]

7 minutes ago, kokotg said:

I'm saying that when they apply to colleges senior year after doing DE Spanish, those colleges will see on their transcripts that they took--in my 10th grader's case--Spanish 1 and 2 in middle school, Spanish 3 in 10th grade, and then took Spanish 1002 junior year DE (which is supposed to be the equivalent of Spanish 2). So is a college that wants 4 years of a foreign language going to "count" the Spanish done before DE if the student doesn't get to 4th semester college level language classes? I mean when they're evaluating how rigorous the high school course schedule was for admission, putting aside concerns about placement into college classes.

ETA: yes, this was all at the same DE university

Oh, I see. So this isn't placement at their final destination. This is for dual enrollment.

No big deal. I've seen this a bunch of times and never seen an admissions issue with it.

ETA: It honestly sounds like maybe they don't actually place kids higher than that at your local DE university. That's just a guess, but some places just have a "higher" level language course that they funnel everyone except native speakers or their equivalent into as a gateway course.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Farrar

[kokotg]

25 minutes ago, Farrar said:

 

ETA: It honestly sounds like maybe they don't actually place kids higher than that at your local DE university. That's just a guess, but some places just have a "higher" level language course that they funnel everyone except native speakers or their equivalent into as a gateway course.

I think that must be the case. My oldest kid had been reading short novels in Spanish and writing pretty long papers for a couple of years with his tutor and still got that second semester placement. If that's the case then I appreciate that they don't want people in over their heads (although the same university would let my 10th grader place into pre-calc based on his math SAT score...the SAT he took months before he'd even started algebra 2. We will not be taking them up on the offer). 

[Dmmetler]

Mine placed into advanced Spanish after 2 semesters of college Spanish DE and then HSA for the next several years. This was at a LAC that wants everyone to have a high level of fluency in at least one language other than English, and if you place out of one, guess what, you get to take a different one in college. 
 

FWIW, my kid says that DE Spanish was mostly grammar, while HSA provided a lot more vocabulary, reading, and conversational skills, and feels that it was much better prep for a college course that involved reading and writing in Spanish. 

[rzberrymom]

My DD placed into 300 level classes after homeschooling German for years, and I’m still worried about whether those junior level classes are really going to count for the foreign language requirement when she applies next year. I keep thinking we’re going to get caught on technicalities.

And I agree with Dmmetler’s kiddo—300 level was ALL about grammar. I remember my DD crying about her first essay because she got a C. The professor wrote something on it like, I see this every year, students who are fluent in speaking and reading but who don’t have nearly enough grammar. She had to work her tail off after that, going line by line on her essays to make sure the grammar was just right.

Maybe that’s where the placement test could be dinging your kiddo?

[kokotg]

6 minutes ago, rzberrymom said:

My DD placed into 300 level classes after homeschooling German for years, and I’m still worried about whether those junior level classes are really going to count for the foreign language requirement when she applies next year. I keep thinking we’re going to get caught on technicalities.

And I agree with Dmmetler’s kiddo—300 level was ALL about grammar. I remember my DD crying about her first essay because she got a C. The professor wrote something on it like, I see this every year, students who are fluent in speaking and reading but who don’t have nearly enough grammar. She had to work her tail off after that, going line by line on her essays to make sure the grammar was just right.

Maybe that’s where the placement test could be dinging your kiddo?

I haven't looked at the test myself, but my kid who just took it says it was ALL vocab--no verbs beyond present tense at all. So it really does seem designed to just be very picky and keep most people out of higher level classes until they've taken the lower ones at that school. I think he has the option to take it again, but I really don't mind him doing something that's a lot of review for his first foray into college level Spanish.

[mom2scouts]

I think that colleges look at DE or college level classes as something different than foreign language classes taught at the high school level. Our local university requires everyone to take a placement test for languages. My DS was completely self taught in high school, tested into a 4th semester DE college class, couldn't get in the class so took a different language for fall DE, took both languages for spring DE, then continued both languages as a freshman at the university. I think colleges are just looking to see progression and, if your student doesn't love languages like mine does, I think it's fine to move on to other electives after getting 4 credits.