As Analytical Grammar does not include verb tenses, where to learn and find practice?

[BrunchinMunchkins]

Hi,

My boys (late middle school to early high school) and I have finished all of Analytical Grammar now, and I realized that it doesn’t cover verb tenses usage. And that is the area that I had never really got the hang of myself (English isn’t my first language). I mean I understand what each tense is for and stuff but never really mastered because there wasn’t enough practice for each of those more “obscure” verb tenses imo. Please let me know of any comprehensive curriculum or resource that practices all the verb tenses.

Thanks in advance!

Edited March 16, 2022 by BrunchinMunchkins

[kbutton]

Warriner's grammar books are usually inexpensive to find online, and they have information about tenses. From there, you might be able to find additional worksheets online if you need them.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0153117362/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_w=vdpl6&pf_rd_p=9aa30bae-d685-4626-879d-c38f81e830a3&pf_rd_r=77QVPQFGR8ZMZRRT03F2&pd_rd_r=f9bd92b0-d9a7-4f84-ac81-8796cf95ec3f&pd_rd_wg=DG2bM&ref_=bd_tags_dp_rec

It's been through many editions. If you buy the Complete Course, that's considered 12th grade, and it's a helpful reference for all kinds of grammar topics. 

[royspeed]

BrunchinMunchkins:

Have you noticed your boys making abundant errors with verb tenses?

I ask because you write: that is the area that I had never really got the hang of myself (English isn’t my first language)... — Your experience as a non-native speaker can be misleading when identifying the priorities with your sons' grammar.

Would you consider them native speakers of English, i.e., English is their first language? I'm asking because the vast majority of native speakers do not learn the verb tenses through formal lessons on the subject; they learn them through reading, through immersion in written English.

I design formal grammar lessons (see my book here), and if you'd like to have a conversation about your boys' needs, just let me know. I may be able to help.

[SoCal_Bear]

This is where I am grateful my son enjoys Latin because it has helped a great deal with grammar especially verb tenses.

[royspeed]

9 hours ago, calbear said:

This is where I am grateful my son enjoys Latin because it has helped a great deal with grammar ...

Two points:

First, calbear is correct about Latin. What studying Latin seems to do — even for students whose English is relatively free of error — is raise their awareness & understanding of the mechanics of English. It really is invaluable.

Second, here is one type of error that is definitely on the rise: errors with past participles. — A few examples:

• She should have chose me.    (should be chosen)
• I haven’t forgot.    (should be forgotten)
• He hasn’t rode a rollercoaster before.    (should be ridden)
• We haven’t broke their record yet.    (should be broken)

This type of error is now common in public statements, webpages, broadcasting, etc. — so much so that our students' ear for English usage is being trained in the wrong direction.

Consider the following errors with a single verb — the verb go:

• HEADLINE FROM BABYCENTER.COM:
  Moms who have went into labor on their own
• PENN STATE HEAD COACH JAMES FRANKLIN, QUOTED ON PENNLIVE.COM:
  “When you don’t stop them, and they run a four-minute offense, then obviously it looks like you should have went for it in earlier situations.”
• RETIREE QUOTED AT FOX29.COM: 
  “If I was 100 percent retired, I probably would have went to Ireland.”
• NEWS ARTICLE ON FIRE SAFETY, POSTED AT KRQE.COM (ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO):
  In the event of a fire, the alarms would have went off ...

I'm finding that when I instruct students in grammar, I now must 1) raise their awareness of this type of error, and 2) drill them on past participles — something that just wasn't necessary twenty-five years ago.

[Momto6inIN]

I agree with royspeed. Most native speakers won't struggle as much with verb tenses as non-native speakers do. Analytical Grammar covers some common verb tense usage errors, but not explicit instruction on the formation of all verb tenses, because most kids don't need it.

[shalpin2]

Royspeed, I am very interested in your book. My oldest is very bright and reads constantly (although what she is reading may not be grammatically correct). Her grammar is probably correct 90% of the time, but I need a book that gets her that last ten percent. Does your book explain the answers to these grammar questions:

 

1. Mother, along with Uncle Joe, (has or have) left for the beach.

 

2. Each of the girls (speak/speaks).

 

3. I want to go to the mall.  

Sorry, neither of the cars is/are available.

Thanks!

Edited March 17, 2022 by shalpin2

[Lucy the Valiant]

4 minutes ago, shalpin2 said:

Royspeed, I am very interested in your book. My oldest is very bright and reads constantly (although what she is reading may not be grammatically correct). Her grammar is probably correct 90% of the time, but I need a book that gets her that last ten percent. Does your book explain the answers to these grammar questions:

 

1. Mother, along with Uncle Joe, (has or have) left for the beach.

 

2. Each of the girls (speak/speaks).

 

3. I want to go to the mall.  

Sorry, neither of the cars is/are available.

Thanks!

Rod and Staff 8th grade grammar book explains these solidly, too. (The sentences you included are testing subject / verb agreement, though, not verb tense.) 
 

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Lucy the Valiant

[shalpin2]

Should I purchase on Amazon or do you have a website?...

 

Found your website! Been reading articles and listening to videos for about two hours now. Can't wait for DD to take your R&J class in a year or two! (And ordered your book 😀)

Edited March 18, 2022 by shalpin2

[BrunchinMunchkins]

Thank you for everyone's responses.

Our family's native language has very simple grammar and does not utilize verb tenses at all. As is often the case whenever the parent's native language is not English, the main language spoken in the house is not English, and so our boys do make lots of verb tense errors. This is to the point that their online writing instructor has noted it to me and asked for remediation. That is why I got anxious and hoped to find a solution. 

Although I understand much of grammar can be learned from immersion, I want explicit practice in the major areas -- verb tenses being one (jolly there's 16 verb tenses in English!). It has been over 15 years since I learned English, and I can generally get by in normal sitch. But, in more academic spaces like literature writing, I realized I am often lost whenever dealing with when and which verb tenses to use.

I will look into Warriner and Rod & Staff. As for Latin, it seems like a whole can of worms. Should we really learn a whole other language just for the sake of grammar? Of course, I know Latin has many other benefits, but we are already focused on proficiency in our native language at home and also plan to take on Spanish soon. On that note, will Spanish similarly provide better understanding of verb tenses as like Latin?

Thanks again for all the ideas and discussions!

Edited March 18, 2022 by BrunchinMunchkins

[royspeed]

16 hours ago, shalpin2 said:

Does your book explain the answers to these grammar questions:

Thanks for your interest in my book, shalpin2, and yes, there's a section that deals extensively with tricky situations in subject-verb agreement, including all the specific situations represented in your examples.

16 hours ago, shalpin2 said:

Found your website! Been reading articles and listening to videos for about two hours now. Can't wait for DD to take your R&J class in a year or two! (And ordered your book 😀)

That's wonderful! — And I'm delighted that you're using the site!

Look forward to meeting your daughter!

13 hours ago, BrunchinMunchkins said:

Although I understand much of grammar can be learned from immersion, I want explicit practice in the major areas -- verb tenses being one...

You may be more likely to find thorough workouts on English tenses in ESL material (English as a Second Language). — Good luck with your search.

Edited March 18, 2022 by royspeed