Question re: 12yo ds big-time attitude...cc

[Julpost]

When can it be attributed to hormones and when should it be addressed as an attitude issue? He has an attitude w/everyone...me, his sisters, the dog...all of us except dh. He wants to argue about everything and sometimes I remember to "disengage, disengage..." and I try to just remove myself either from his vicinity or at least emotionally. Should I address every single instance of snideness, argumentativeness, and disrespectfulness and how do I do that? He has lost his allowance, he is out of money (I used to fine him for rudeness), I don't know what else to do. I am thinking of tomato staking him, if that could work w/someone this age. I am at my wits end but at the same time, I'm thankful I am around to address this and we have the time to do it, since we are homeschooling. I really, really need some help, he's driving me crazy! Ooh, I just had an idea, I could start sending him outside to do a chore when he gets impossible. I used to do that with him when he was younger and it worked wonders. Any other ideas or advice? Thanks!

[Kathleen in VA]

Well, it definitely is a 12yo ds thing as I am dealing with this as well. I often forget not to take it personally and it really irks me. Yesterday I told him he would be doing one more chore if he did not change his attitude. First I told him to vacuum the living room - no change. I reminded him that as soon as he was "sweet" he could do whatever he wanted. Then I had him vacuum all the crumbs along the edges of the kitchen floor - no change. Then I had him fold a load of laundry. Bingo! He started laughing and cheering up and we were able to move on. I'm sure I will be repeating this scenario many times - hopefully it will come to an end eventually.

 

That's my tiny bit of advice - hope it helps.

[Parrothead]

I'll put up with a lot, but an attitude is something I have a zero tolerance policy for. I don't want to see or hear it. Attitude can be done in the solitude of a bedroom. For all that he can have hormones in his bedroom too.

 

If he has lost his allowance, then it is time to start loosing other things too. If he ends up with all his stuff in the garage, well, no one to blame but himself.

 

Why doesn't ds act like that with his father?

[Julie in CA]

Physical activity works wonders for my boys. Not only as a punitive measure, but also as a preventive measure. I had boys digging trenches for sprinklers for a while. :glare:

 

I think a lot of the bad attitude probably is indeed a result of hormones, but that doesn't mean that it isn't dealt with as a heart/character issue (in our home). We do continue to correct bad attitudes and bad manners, because regardless of the cause, that behavior just isn't allowed in our home.

 

I know opinions on this will vary, but (imo) there comes a time when it really should be the dad's job to deal with unpleasant teenage sons. My dh has, when necessary, confronted a sullen teenage son with the statement, "that's my wife, and I don't allow *anyone* to disrespect her that way, including *you*, so cut it out or be prepared to take me on if you behave unpleasantly towards her!" Worked wonders. ;)

 

Parenting teenage young men is without a doubt one of the toughest things I've ever done, and my teenagers are angels compared to most I see. The encouraging thing is that most of the time the nasty attitude eventually gives way to wonderfully strong men that you will be proud to say you raised. :001_smile:

 

Chin up, mom! It'll come out ok in the end.

[Parrothead]

 

I know opinions on this will vary, but (imo) there comes a time when it really should be the dad's job to deal with unpleasant teenage sons. My dh has, when necessary, confronted a sullen teenage son with the statement, "that's my wife, and I don't allow *anyone* to disrespect her that way, including *you*, so cut it out or be prepared to take me on if you behave unpleasantly towards her!" Worked wonders. ;)

 

 

IMHO - Way to go, dh!

[Julie in CA]

Why doesn't ds act like that with his father?

I have a guess about this...

I think it's an "alpha male" thing. Even though we live in a society that prohibits physical confrontations between fathers and sons, the young men just know that you shouldn't take on men who are older and presumably stronger and smarter!

[Julie in CA]

IMHO - Way to go, dh!

 

Yeah, I was internally doing this :hurray: .

I also made sure that I expressed my appreciation to dh later on! :D

[battlemaiden]

Physical activity works wonders for my boys. Not only as a punitive measure, but also as a preventive measure. I had boys digging trenches for sprinklers for a while. :glare:

 

I think a lot of the bad attitude probably is indeed a result of hormones, but that doesn't mean that it isn't dealt with as a heart/character issue (in our home). We do continue to correct bad attitudes and bad manners, because regardless of the cause, that behavior just isn't allowed in our home.

 

I know opinions on this will vary, but (imo) there comes a time when it really should be the dad's job to deal with unpleasant teenage sons. My dh has, when necessary, confronted a sullen teenage son with the statement, "that's my wife, and I don't allow *anyone* to disrespect her that way, including *you*, so cut it out or be prepared to take me on if you behave unpleasantly towards her!" Worked wonders. ;)

 

Parenting teenage young men is without a doubt one of the toughest things I've ever done, and my teenagers are angels compared to most I see. The encouraging thing is that most of the time the nasty attitude eventually gives way to wonderfully strong men that you will be proud to say you raised. :001_smile:

 

Chin up, mom! It'll come out ok in the end.

 

I totally agree. And one more thing....

 

Before I had a 12yo I thought I knew the answer to these posts. I apologize to the WTM universe for ever thinking I understood. :D There is a flip switch around this age that can't be understood unless you are going through it. They just plain change. They are thinking, analyzing, challenging in a way a 11yo doesn't (mostly).

 

I am where you are. I agree with Julie. You can't let it go, but at the same time you need to come along side them more at this age and explain how they are acting inappropriately. Honestly? I can see that my son is miserable when he acts up too. He needs help working through his emotions. It is so hard to change my motherly mindset, but I'm learning slowly and with many apologies to my son that he is growing up and I need to guide him more.

 

Jo

[Marie in Oh]

I totally agree. And one more thing....

 

Before I had a 12yo I thought I knew the answer to these posts. I apologize to the WTM universe for ever thinking I understood. :D There is a flip switch around this age that can't be understood unless you are going through it. They just plain change. They are thinking, analyzing, challenging in a way a 11yo doesn't (mostly).

 

I am where you are. I agree with Julie. You can't let it go, but at the same time you need to come along side them more at this age and explain how they are acting inappropriately. Honestly? I can see that my son is miserable when he acts up too. He needs help working through his emotions. It is so hard to change my motherly mindset, but I'm learning slowly and with many apologies to my son that he is growing up and I need to guide him more.

 

Jo

 

and it is going to get worse when he is 12? Thanks for the encouragement ladies. I can't wait. :glare:

[battlemaiden]

 

and it is going to get worse when he is 12? Thanks for the encouragement ladies. I can't wait. :glare:

 

Yes, but I bet you'll be quicker to adapt than i was. I'm always a little late to the game.

 

My son is still a joy to be with. He is a great kid, he's just a little harder to handle. He's growing up and I feel like I'm trying to pull back the reins on a runaway horse....

 

Jo

[Julpost]

Well, we've survived another storm....34 minutes later, he's back to being a smiling, sweet, helpful son. He's watching his little brother and just being a joy.

 

This is after taking out the trash and feeding and watering the chickens. I'm going to go savor this moment.

 

Thanks for all the encouragement and advice ladies. I'm saving this thread because I'm going to need to refer back to it daily!:D

 

I'm exhausted.

[JudoMom]

 

and it is going to get worse when he is 12? Thanks for the encouragement ladies. I can't wait. :glare:

 

Yeah. No kidding. Y'all are scaring me :svengo:.

[LBC]

This sounds so much like my ds, 13. I've been working on trying to find some solutions for dealing with him.

 

 

Some thoughts:

 

• I approach parenting from a very relational pov, so I tend to think long and hard before I start using punishment and rewards to deal with behavior issues.
  
• I often hesitate to single out bad attitudes. I don't tolerate them, but I also know that I have two children who almost always have a pleasant attitude and sweet disposition, and two children who really struggle to be pleasant and cheerful. I tend to have a more negative disposition, so I remember being young, and always being in trouble because of my attitude. My sister, on the other hand, could make funny little happy jokes with my dad, and get away with murder.
  
• Perception matters. If my ds believes that I am being totally unfair, that will stay with him, even though I'm doing my best to be reasonable. His perception of things could damage our relationship. It is my responsibility as a parent to keep that relationship intact and healthy.
  
• Sometimes kids with a negative disposition are acting out because they want to know if you really love them. They need to be reassured that your love for them is unconditional.
  

All of that to say that I spend a lot of time wondering what to do in any given situation. Yesterday I did something quite unorthodox. Ds had been sick for a few days, and was really dragging it out. Whenever I put any expectations on him, he would freak out. Then he told me that he'd done his math, but had obviously copied all the answers down (he readily admitted it when confronted). So, I called a family meeting, and told everybody that our Christmas break would not start until ds had finished a specific amount of school work, and nobody would have any screen time until ds had completed the math I had required. They all looked like I had grown a second head, and accused me of being very unfair, so I said that we are a family, and if one person is having a tough time, we all need to support that person. That afternoon, ds and I sat down together and worked on his math. When he had finished, we talked about how great it felt to get it done the right way. I asked him how it felt to cheat, and he admitted that it felt bad. I told him that the reason it felt bad was because it was not who he was, and that the Bible says that he is a new creation. Old things have passed away, and all things have become new. I told him that his flesh would sometimes take over, but who he is in Christ will not change. He had tears rolling down his cheeks. I was able to affirm who he was in a positive way. I didn't tell him that our love was conditional based on how he behaved, and I sure didn't give him the impression that God's love is conditional based on how he behaves. I don't believe that anybody is motivated by guilt or shame. All of us need to be affirmed in who we are so that we can go back to behaving in a way that reflects who we are.

 

This interaction built a better relationship between ds and I, but it didn't fix the problem. He was still difficult today, and he will probably still be difficult tomorrow. I hope that in the process of parenting him I can always be open hearted, and hear his frustration. I hope I never judge him or limit him by his occasional bad behavior. Unconditional love is always the best environment to grow in.

 

This may sound like crazy talk. You don't know me, or my dc. The truth is, my dc are very normal. They make mistakes, and they don't always do the right thing, but I've had many people comment on how nice they are, or how well behaved they are. I've even had people ask what curriculum I use because they think I have great kids, and they want to do whatever it is I do. I haven't figured out how that works.:blushing:

 

Well, I certainly have no answers. I'm often wondering if I need to take a harder stance with ds. I just can't seem to bring myself to do it. Sometimes I react harshly, but I always apologize, and try to reconnect with him in some way. I know he will do well as an adult. He's a hard worker, and responds very well to dh. When my dad comes to do odd jobs at our house, he always comments on how hard working and helpful ds is. :001_huh:

 

I feel like I've rambled. I've had a ton of interruptions since I started typing this post. I hope it makes sense.

 

Lori

[AuntieM]

So, he is evened out after a few chores? Perhaps he deep down enjoys the responsibility. My oldest, at 13 1/2, just told me that he *needed* to have work to do. When my soon to be 12 guy is sporting an attitude, it usually signals a need for quality time one-on-one with dad. Or sometimes he is just bored : )

 

In our experience, my adolescent guys have had the most cooperative attitudes and laid-back temperaments when they had outlets - physical and social - and responsibilities. And it is/has been much more effective for them to be accountable to their father rather than to me in the completion of chore-type responsibilities. Having lots of outdoor play - hard play - helped a lot, as well as organized competition via Tae Kwon Do training and tournaments.

 

I think it also helps to have a sense of something that's all their own. For my older ds, it was robotics and now student council. For my younger, TKD and woodworking. If your son has hobbies, help him to fully engage. Keeping his hands, body & mind busy could help.

[Danestress]

My experience is that sons about this age (okay - just mine, I actually don't know how this works in other families, and I'm curious) really start challenging their mothers. But around 14, he and I had made strides, changed our relationship, and suddenly he was being snide and argumentative with his father. It's like he practiced on me and then took his Dad on.

 

When he did it with me, I firmly believed (and I still do, actually) that a Mom has to be able to stand on her own feet and not always appeal to Dad for help. This is *my* house too and I intend to live peacefully here and will insist on being treated with respect - that was my policy. At the same time, I had to make some changes in how I let him make decisions, make mistakes, and make reasonably choices. I had to start relating to him as someone close to an adult. But no adult man is going to come in my house and be rude, so I never ever for a minute tolerated rudeness and snideness. I just treated those two things as seperate - (1) train him that he has to speak politely (2) train me not to give too much unsolicited advice, directions, and suggestions. One of my friends told me to speak half as much as I was inclined. I'm not one to run at the mouth, but I became very very brief and concise with him, became a better listener, and it REALLY helped. But I still didn't tolerate rudeness.

 

I think you are right to address it in small ways. I always reminded my son that when you are rude to people, they don't let you borrow their "stuff" and most of the stuff in the house is mine (jointly held with DH, lol) - the tv, the car, the computer. I took away privileges for rudeness. It wasn't magic. I didn't "solve" the problem. If it's making you crazy, it's probably because you think your response isn't "working." Just remember that you will know what worked in two years. Just look at his rudeness as an opportunity for training, and don't let it get under your skin.

[elegantlion]

As the mother of an 11 year old, thanks, I think. :glare: We had a long discussion today about work ethic, I guess I should pack my arsenal now. I mean arm myself with the wisdom of those that have gone before me.

[jamnkats]

When can it be attributed to hormones and when should it be addressed as an attitude issue? He has an attitude w/everyone...me, his sisters, the dog...all of us except dh. He wants to argue about everything and sometimes I remember to "disengage, disengage..." and I try to just remove myself either from his vicinity or at least emotionally. Should I address every single instance of snideness, argumentativeness, and disrespectfulness and how do I do that? He has lost his allowance, he is out of money (I used to fine him for rudeness), I don't know what else to do. I am thinking of tomato staking him, if that could work w/someone this age. I am at my wits end but at the same time, I'm thankful I am around to address this and we have the time to do it, since we are homeschooling. I really, really need some help, he's driving me crazy! Ooh, I just had an idea, I could start sending him outside to do a chore when he gets impossible. I used to do that with him when he was younger and it worked wonders. Any other ideas or advice? Thanks!

 

Yeah, I've got one of those. :) He is a 2nd born though, and the emotions have always run high with him. I just consider him a 2nd time 2yo - the hormones are raging - and help him working through all the big emotions. I figure it will take a while - just like it took 2 years (from 2yo to 4yo) to work through those times. I do not punish at all though and I also don't expect immediate results.