WWE questions ........

[scbusf]

Is it a terrible idea to go back and start with WWE1 for an 11 year old who hasn't done much formal LA curriculum? She is my youngest, has severe ADHD and Auditory Processing Disorder, and Language Arts is not my thing. Her reading has improved so much this past year, but I know we need to get on the ball and do more for LA.

So for this year, I was planning on using TGaTB Level 4, but we both just looked at it and don't care for it.

I do already have MegaWords 1 for her. But what if we went back to WWE and started w/ Level 1? We could work through it at her pace, probably fairly quickly at first. We are not strict classical educators, but I'm lost, as usual, with LA for this girl.

[SilverMoon]

I'm not sure I'd go all the way back to level 1 at 11, but I don't know the particular kid. The hardback instructor text can walk you through the skill progressions and may be a better fit for an older kid. 🙂 There's also a placement test for it on the WTM site. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by SilverMoon

[desertflower]

I agree with SilverMoon.  Take the placement test.

WWE1 is copywork, reading comprehension, and oral narration.  At least this is how I remember using it.  I don't know what type of LA your DD has had, but I'm assuming she has had some form of that by now. 

Also, I think it may cover nouns and verbs and perhaps punctuation marks; such as, period, question mark, and exclamation point. 

[Lori D.]

re: overview of LA:
Language Arts areas you will want to include for an 11yo:
- Reading (literature)
- Writing
- Grammar
- Spelling
- optional: Vocabulary
- optional: handwriting, if still needed; otherwise have her learn to type this year (if she doesn't already type -- typing often helps with reduce struggles with spelling, and with other learning issues)

That's great that you have Megawords for Spelling. Because it is designed for grades 4 and up, it has some great words for older students, which means it overlaps with vocabulary. So that can help streamline your LA (getting Spelling AND a bit of Vocabulary), as well as directly help with the Spelling struggles. 

re: Writing
JMO, but you really have to know your child and if the presentation of WWE would be a good fit or not. For my DS#2 with learning issues with writing and spelling, the WWE series and WWS series would have been a hard NO for a variety of reasons. But for other children with learning issues, the sequential, parts-to-whole, repetitive method of WWE could be exactly what is needed. 

My suggestion for writing would be to consider  using something that streamlines and combines writing + grammar (since grammar is a tool for use in writing). I recommend looking at Teaching Writing Through Guided Analysis (formerly called Treasured Conversations):

- it integrates Grammar with the Writing (so it keeps your lessons short and "doing double duty" with Grammar in context of Writing
- it walks the student from basic sentences to complete paragraphs and short essays in a 1-year program (although you could spread it out if needed over more than 1 year)
- it is scripted (a big help for a "non-LA mom/teacher 😉)
- and it is for grades 3-5 (so not too young for an 11yo)

re: starting with WWE level 1
As always, "teach the child before you", so if WWE is the program that is the best fit for this student, then I totally agree with previous posters and highly recommend doing the placement test, to use the level that's the best fit. My guess is that there is a LOT of review/overlap in the topics covered in WWE1, 2, and 3 (and WWE 4 is more of the same of WWE3 for extra practice), so starting at a higher level is unlikely to leave "gaps".

BEST of luck in finding what helps DD move forward with LA, and that is a great fit for you, as well! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Lori D.

[wendyroo]

I am copying my response from this thread about a similar question:

There is clear progression between the WWE levels...

WWE 1 has very simple copywork and no dictation.  The passages are fairly short and intended to be read to the child.  Narrations simply ask the child one interesting thing they remember about the passage.  The main goal of the level is to improve listening comprehension and to get the child responding to comprehension questions and orally narrating in complete sentences.

WWE 2 moves to studied dictation; the student copies a sentence one day and then is asked to write it from dictation the next.  The passages are slightly longer with more complex language, but they are still intended to be read to the child.  Narrations ask the child for more focused, specific information, such as, “Can you describe hobbits to me in three sentences?†or “Can you tell me in two or three sentences what happened in this story?â€.  The main goal of the level is to identify the central idea(s) in a passage and orally narrate a summary (without leaving out any main ideas or including too many extraneous details).

WWE 3 moves to dictations.  **This is the level my oldest is currently using, and we skip the dictations.  Many parents feel they are simply too long and difficult for this age.  If you choose to use them, make sure to watch Susan Wise Bauer's YouTube video showing her doing a dictation with her son.** The passages are quite a bit longer with much more complex language, and they are set up for the child to read independently.  Narrations are longer and begin to look more like complete paragraphs: "Try to tell me, in one sentence, how Gareth behaved in front of the king—and why.† And then, “Now give me two more sentences with specific details in them about how Jason and the king tried to make Gareth obey, and for each specific detail, tell me how Gareth reacted.† The main goal of the level is to orally narrate a longer summary with a topic sentence and several supporting sentences.

WWE 4 is now considered optional.  SWB discusses here the pros and cons to using WWE 4 and other suggested curricula.  From what I have heard, the dictations in WWE 4 are brutal.  Looking at the sample, I have to agree; some of those dictations would leave me close to tears.  The narrations look very similar to WWE 3.  I have decided to skip WWE for my kiddos and use the Killgallon books as a bridge between WWE and WWS.

In your shoes, I might buy WWE 2 and 3 in pdf form so you can use them for all the kids.  For the 8 year old, I would modify the first couple weeks if necessary by only doing copywork and by simplifying the narrations by just asking for one interesting thing from the passage.   I expect that after a bit of practice, he/she will be ready to use WWE 2 as written.  For the older two, I would start with WWE 2, but condense and skip as you see fit to move them on to WWE 3.  I have found all the levels easy to condense; we always do two "day's" worth of work in one sitting.  At the end of WWE 3, you can decide if they need WWE 4, or if they are ready to move on.

 

[PeterPan]

On 8/20/2021 at 11:50 AM, scbusf said:

She is my youngest, has severe ADHD and Auditory Processing Disorder,

WWE is working on narrative language, but it's not therapy level, not explicit. Given that you already know she has language problems (APD), you might also find you want more explicit narrative language intervention.

https://www.languagedynamicsgroup.com/product/story-champs-2-0-english/  You'll gulp at the price, but it's open and go. 

https://www.languagedynamicsgroup.com/cubed-assessment-download/  This is their FREE assessment that also includes narrative language.

https://www.therapro.com/Differential-Processing-Training-Program-Acoustic-Tasks.html  This is the 3 book series for auditory processing I'm using with my ds. If your dd has not yet had therapy for the language processing, it might be something to look into. Again, totally open and go.

And below is a youtube video explaining narrative language intervention using a different system (Story Grammar Marker). This video is well worth your time no matter what system you end up using. You've got a lot bigger issues looming than just whether she can narrate some fiction sample from a text. You're also about to be wanting expository writing, yes? And you want a coherent narrative approach that shows explicitly the *connection* between fiction narration and expository writing. Story Grammar Marker does an excellent job of showing how to transition the skills from narrative to expository writing, and you don't have to buy anything at all to do it at home yourself for free in a hack way. You can use it to step up how you work with her with whatever you're using. Kids without language issues will pick that up automatically, but a kid with language processing issues will benefit from explicit instruction. I own Story Grammar Marker materials and Story Champs btw. Story Champs would be as open and go as WWE but much more explicit intervention level instruction

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by PeterPan

[PeterPan]

On 8/20/2021 at 11:50 AM, scbusf said:

So for this year, I was planning on using TGaTB Level 4, but we both just looked at it and don't care for it.

http://www.e4thai.com/e4e/images/pdf2/language_fundamentals/LgFdm5.pdf  This website has all the grades of this series in a slightly older version that you can download for free. Good stuff. And you can use it straight (gr 4, whatever) or you could download say grades 4-6 and collate the topics, doing all the sections on adverbs then all the sections on prepositions and so on. Free. Just change the number in the url and you'll find them.

https://www.weareteachers.com/15-must-have-picture-books-for-teaching-social-emotional-skills/  If you happen to need reading material, we've done well with lists like this.

Also you can use https://hub.lexile.com/find-a-book/search  to find books with a similar lexile level (which is controlled for syntax/language level). 

https://www.amazon.com/Reach-Student-Reading-Grade/dp/1305113608/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=national+geographic+reach&qid=1629718859&sr=8-4 My ds has enjoyed the balance of fiction and nonfiction in the National Geographic Reach reading textbook series. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by PeterPan

[Helpdesk]

As others have said, there are placement tests for WWE.  

And perhaps this article from our FAQ will be of help, what with all the links and options.