Need Help Deciding Curriculum

[Dianthus]

I felt like this in February, then shrugged it off and delayed much too long.  Now I'm in the midst of busy summer activities and must finalize curriculum.  I need to order and just can't decide.  Have 3 school kids in grades 1, 4 & 7.  We have homeschooled from the beginning.  I have everything for my grade 1 child.

Most of the issue is grade 7 dd.  I've never done a box from one publisher.  I'm thinking of moving to Memoria charter products for her.  Is it crazy to go all in with Memoria when I have never used any of their products (but read their catalog every year)?  I can't decide on math, was originally thinking of Saxon 8/7, or should I do pre-algebra instead.  She is good at math and I'm not sure about the busy work of Saxon.  Memoria uses Redwoods college text, which I've never heard of.  We were using IEW writing and Fixit.  Thinking of moving to Classical Composition. I like the looks of the Memoria Great Republic history and maybe First Form Latin.  I have no idea about science.  The Memoria sciences don't look super exciting and my daughter would like to do anatomy.  Ugh. I just want to streamline.

4th grade ds: I could move into Memoria possibly to also streamline.  Was thinking of starting him in IEW this year, but not sure if it's a great match, maybe Memoria would be better? He would like something Fable based and I believe his level of Memoria would be Fable based..  aHe also needs history and science.  His math is set. If he does Latin, it would be GSWL.

There is definite allure of a lesson plan and schedule from one publisher instead of me juggling multiple publishers for multiple kids. I'm having a hard time deciding.  Really feeling lost.  😞

I generally avoid religious materials because we are with a charter school, but I can pay for my own curriculum if I decide to use religious material.  I would like to incorporate a Bible curriculum to do on our own.

Any ideas?

[Ellie]

1 hour ago, Spirea said:

I can't decide on math, was originally thinking of Saxon 8/7, or should I do pre-algebra instead.  She is good at math and I'm not sure about the busy work of Saxon.

Math 87 *is* pre-algebra. To know whether to use Math 87 or Alg. 1/2, have your dd take the placement test and do whatever it says. Also, there is no busywork in Saxon, nowhere. Every single problem in every single problem set is there for a reason.

[mamaheg]

If you're considering Memoria I would honestly reach out to their forum or call their customer service, there is a plethora of help there!

https://forum.memoriapress.com/

 

[Not_a_Number]

10 hours ago, Ellie said:

Math 87 *is* pre-algebra. To know whether to use Math 87 or Alg. 1/2, have your dd take the placement test and do whatever it says. Also, there is no busywork in Saxon, nowhere. Every single problem in every single problem set is there for a reason.

But not always for a reason that works for a given kid.

What’s she using for math now? Does she like it?

[Ellie]

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

But not always for a reason that works for a given kid.

Saxon is not prescriptive. That is, it was not written to for the teacher to pick and choose what works for each child. It was written to be specifically used the way it is actually published. You could say that the Saxon methodology is not the best for someone, but if that's the text being used, it should be used the way it is written. Don't shot the messenger; it is what the author/publisher says.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Ellie said:

Saxon is not prescriptive. That is, it was not written to for the teacher to pick and choose what works for each child. It was written to be specifically used the way it is actually published. You could say that the Saxon methodology is not the best for someone, but if that's the text being used, it should be used the way it is written. Don't shot the messenger; it is what the author/publisher says.

I've heard people say that, yes. I believe that it's a carefully designed program, and I believe that it should be used as written, but I do think that means it's not a fit for all kids. 

[Dianthus]

2 hours ago, mamaheg said:

If you're considering Memoria I would honestly reach out to their forum or call their customer service, there is a plethora of help there!

https://forum.memoriapress.com/

 

I've called twice, about 30 min calls each time.  I ask questions about everything.  Since we haven't used their products, we need to go back a couple levels.  They recommend doing their classical composition from level 1, but do level 1 and 2 in one year and catch up the next year with year 3 &4.  I guess that sounds like more work, not streamlining. I like the look of their lit guides but she's already read all the books. We'd also go back to First Form Latin,  which they schedule earlier, but I don't mind stepping back for that, and we would not be doubling the pace.  She has some med issues we discovered in January of last year that caused tachycardia, affecting her ability to focus.  On meds and, thank God, no longer any symptoms.  However, we did drop KGWL at that time, so we need a refresher. 

IEW was her only DVD class and she and I both like Mr. Pudawa.  She liked Fix it grammar. Regarding writing, I feel like she's more concerned about checking all the boxes on the -ly adverbs, strong adjectives and verbs that she isn't getting the writing structure. Maybe I shouldn't discount everything as not working when we had other issues.  I also am concerned that we have holes in our education, and thought using a full package from Memoria would round us out. They also have alluring additions like Greek Alphabet. As you can see from my ramblings, I cannot make a decision

Should I at least try Memoria history?  Anyone done 13 Colonies and the Great Republic?  

Can anyone recommend a science course with anatomy?  Something I could combine with my 4th grader would be great (they're actually only 2 years apart but grade levels are where their birthdays fall).  Dd would love to do direction too.

2 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

But not always for a reason that works for a given kid.

What’s she using for math now? Does she like it?

Looks like Saxon 8/7 would be an easy in.  I'm not sure about Algebra 1/2. Different tests, but I read they have the same course content except 8/7 is for younger kids and if we do one, we don't need the other.   Don't understand why they have both then.  I will try to fit in the tests today. We have done Abeka worksheets from grades 1 - 6.  Used some Rightstart early on, then supplemented with BA.  Some of BA was enjoyed but some was not.  I want to move into secular math.  She does not struggle with math, got a 100 on her 4 page final in spring.  I feel like she has a solid background in math.  I prefer spiral.

[Not_a_Number]

Just now, Spirea said:

Looks like Saxon 8/7 would be an easy in.  I'm not sure about Algebra 1/2. Different tests, but I read they have the same course content except 8/7 is for younger kids and if we do one, we don't need the other.   Don't understand why they have both then.  I will try to fit in the tests today. We have done Abeka worksheets from grades 1 - 6.  Used some Rightstart early on, then supplemented with BA.  Some of BA was enjoyed but some was not.  I want to move into secular math.  She does not struggle with math, got a 100 on her 4 page final in spring.  I feel like she has a solid background in math.  I prefer spiral.

If you want spiral and don't have strong opinions otherwise, I see no reason not to do Saxon. May as well give her the placement test and go from there. 

[EKS]

13 hours ago, Ellie said:

Also, there is no busywork in Saxon, nowhere. Every single problem in every single problem set is there for a reason.

There is no intentional busywork, I agree.  However, I would argue that what constitutes busywork is also a function of the student and their needs, and for some students, the extreme repetition serves as busywork for all practical purposes.

[EKS]

6 minutes ago, Spirea said:

Don't understand why they have both then.

I believe that they have them both to give a face saving out for kids who complete 8/7 and still aren't "ready" for algebra.

[Lori D.]

Welcome! I see by your post count you are new to the WTM boards. 😄 

Through our years of homeschooling (both DSs now graduated), I chose curriculum based on my goals + what "method" or "perspective" best suited each individual child's learning style and needs. I found it was much easier to narrow down the options when I knew what the desired end goals were and how my children best learned. Perhaps that might help you as well? If so, a few questions to ponder:

What are your overall 2-3 goals for homeschooling your children?
These are your big-picture overall goals -- what you want your children to get out of homeschooling, and even why you chose homeschooling as the best method for educating your children to begin with.

What are your more specific goals for each child?
Or put another way: what are the 3 top needs for each child this year? I found that this changed each year. This might be a subject area that has just been missed previously and needs to be filled in. (For example: geography maps & charts.)  Or, it might be something that the child has grown into and is now ready, so you need to add it. (For example: cursive handwriting for a 3rd or 4th grader; or "touch typing" for a 5th, 6th, or 7th grader.) Or, it might be something to start prepping the child for middle school or high school. (For example: in middle school, moving from "just reading" for the literature into beginning formal literature studies.)

Also for the 7th grader: What is the plan for high school?
Knowing where/how you think you will do high school will help you figure out what might be needed for 7th & 8th grades to prepare for how you are thinking high school will be handled. For example, if planning on switching to a brick & mortar public/charter/private high school, then you will likely want to spend the next 2 years working on getting the student solid with study skills and writing. If planning on homeschooling by outsourcing most of the classes to online courses, then taking a class or two in each of 7th and 8th grades will help the student become comfortable with using mic and headsets, uploading papers and homework to the class platform, and how to schedule their time for completing the work outside of the class. 

What specific subjects do you want/need to cover?
In case it helps here are the broad subjects typically covered at your DCs grades (and YMMV if Latin, Music, Art, Logic, or other subjects are your family's "core" subjects):
1st: LA = reading, handwriting, phonics (optional: spelling); Math; Science; Social Studies (+ extra subjects, if desired)
4th: LA = reading, writing, spelling, grammar (optional: handwriting; vocabulary); Math; Science; Social Studies  (+ extra subjects, if desired)
7th: Reading/Literature; Writing; Grammar (optional: spelling, vocabulary); Math; Science; Social Studies; helpful: Typing; Computer; optional: Foreign Language; Music; Art; Logic; etc.

What specific curriculum have you used for each child previously -- and, what worked well/didn't work about it?
I am always of the mind that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" 😉, so if what you used previously was working well and since you're all used to it, why not just do the next level for each subject?


BEST of luck as you think "big picture" to help you determine what specific resources will best help you reach your goals and move your children's education forward.

[Dianthus]

5 hours ago, Lori D. said:

Welcome! I see by your post count you are new to the WTM boards. 😄 

Was here awhile ago and now back again. Will be asking you for a booklist soon:)

As far as needs, I was just coming back to this thread to ask about another spelling program for my 4th grader.  He is resistant to doing what he doesn't want to do, and spelling is something he deems unimportant.  He was a reluctant reader until last year.  Last year, when his K little brother was excelling in reading, his competitive nature pushed him to read more and now chooses to read.  I used SwS last year which is extremely light and behind at least a year.  I just kept on because it was easy, but I don't know that he learned much.  I was thinking to either get him into Spelling Power (using with dd) or work through the LOE spelling lists while reviewing phonograms. 

All kids need work on manuscript handwriting.  They started with LOE cursive and never had formal manuscript handwriting.  So I think their printing is pretty sloppy.  Cursive is pretty good.  Just got dd a Spencerian set for her bday as she has been wanting to learn it.

Here are our subjects:

7th grade: Writing/grammar, Spelling, Math, Music - lessons, Spanish - lessons, Latin, History, Science 

Grade 4 subjects are the same minus Latin, unless he wants to do GSWL.  He finished WWE 3 and FLL3 and needs to move on to something new.  Was thinking about All Things Fun & Fascinating and Fixit, or maybe something like Memoria Fable or W&R Fable .  I have ATF&F but haven't used it.  We have done social studies together until maybe this point when I feel we need to split up.

Grade 1 is lang arts (LOE), math (abeka, not because I want to use it, I'd like to switch to Horizon so it's secular, but I already have the Abeka, so I might as well use it), music lessons, Spanish lessons and may do Mystery Science mixed with leftover Bookshark science read alouds.  Would like to also read aloud A Child's History of the World, which I love.

We have liked WWE, FLL, IEW, Cottage Press, SOTW. Also love the Draw the World series and will continue it. I did not like Latin for Children and really disliked Winter Promise. Disliked SwS.  Have looked at AAS, but it seems to have too many parts for me.

 

ETA:  I guess we just need to move on.  Kind of tired and bored of SOTW.  Ditto WWE and FLL.  I also feel the shared history isn't working out very well.  I think both kids are ready for a history workbook with Q&A rather than coloring pages.

ETA #2:  Also sort of tried MCT and it wasn't a good match.

[Lori D.]

lol -- then, "welcome BACK" 😉 

Since you are wanting/needing to streamline here are some more independent-working ideas to possibly consider. Plus resources to potentially keep everyone on the same page for history/science to keep it more streamlined:

7th GRADE:

Writing ideas:
(If needing to combine Writing and Grammar, then a very traditional program such as Rod & Staff or Voyages in English might work.)
- Essentials in Writing (DVD-lesson based; there is also an optional scoring service that starts at 7th grade -- $99 for 1 year)
- Jump In (written to the student; fairly independent-working -- we skipped the lame "free write prompts" and did the program in 1 year)
- Lantern English online Writing classes ($60 per 8-week class; includes scoring & feedback)
- Cover Story (written to the student; fairly independent-working) -- includes some creative writing, and grammar in context of writing

Grammar ideas:
- just me -- I'd continue with Fix-It since she enjoys it; maybe choose a Writing program that includes a bit of grammar if you feel you need more

Spelling
Does she still need spelling? Are there spelling struggles? Do you want to combine Spelling with Vocabulary?

Math
- Saxon matches your "wish list from your post above (wanting spiral and something that continues through high school)
- Teaching Textbooks is also spiral and goes all the way through high school; plus, it has video lessons

 History -- if wanting to do US history:
- Sonlight 7 (or Bookshark level i, the secular version of Sonlight)
- Build Your library grade 5 + grade 6 -- secular; 2 years of American History -- could combine 7th grader & 4th grader with this

Science
- Guest Hollow Jr. Anatomy (for gr. 3-8) -- living book-based; your 7th & 4th graders could combine for this
- Rainbow Science level 1 -- Christian; overview of Chemistry & Physics; 1 year program for 7th grade; mostly solo working; pricey

Geography possibility for the whole family:
- Beautiful Feet Geography guide & map pack to go with the 4 Holling C. Holling books (3 of the 4 books are US geography & history based)

 ________________

4th GRADE

Writing + Grammar -- although, he may be beyond these if he's gone through WWE 3
- Teaching Writing Through Guided Analysis / Treasured Conversations (gr. 3-5) -- 1 year program; parent does it alongside child, but it is short, scripted and all-inclusive
- Writing Tales -- level 1 (gr. 3-4); level 2 (gr. 4-5)

Writing, if doing Fix-It for Grammar
- Wordsmith Apprentice (gr. 4-6) -- fairly solo-working, but again, he may be beyond this
- Evan Moore Daily 6-Trait Writing -- fairly solo-working; maybe gr. 4 or gr. 5 in level?

History -- if wanting to do US history:
- Sonlight D+E (1 year of American History at gr. 3-5 reading level) -- and if wanting everyone doing the same time period/location

________________

1st GRADE

History
- A Child's First Book of American History (gr. 2-6) -- possibly to go along with older DC if doing American History for all; or, do lots of fun American History stepped readers, in addition to your A Child's History of the World

Science
- Guest Hollow Little Kids Anatomy (gr. K-2) -- in addition to Mystery Science + leftover Bookshark, if wanting Anatomy to go along with older DC

Edited July 28, 2021 by Lori D.

[Dianthus]

The Guest Hollow Anatomy , Little kids and Jr levels look like it would be a great fit.  I love the lit list, but am trying to figure out if it's secular to be covered by our program. I am also remembering that I once researched Beowulf Grammar and the printing cost was atrocious so I didn't try it.  I do not like using digital materials.

I have used Bookshark/Sonlight.  I liked it for younger years, but didn't like the booklist  as much later and found it to be too much reading.  I would be hoarse by the end of the day.

[Ellie]

On 7/27/2021 at 11:48 AM, Spirea said:

Looks like Saxon 8/7 would be an easy in.  I'm not sure about Algebra 1/2. Different tests, but I read they have the same course content except 8/7 is for younger kids and if we do one, we don't need the other.

No, it has nothing to do with the ages of the children. In fact, this is addressed in the foreword of the book.

When starting with Saxon for the first time with older dc, you always give the placement test. After that, the dc goes from one text to the next...until Math 76. Students who finish Math 76 with at least an 80% average go on to Math 87, then Algebra 1. Students who complete Math 76 with less than an 80% average do Alg. 1/2, then Algebra 1. There is a difference in the topics that are covered in each one; I don't remember what it is. The place to find out would be the publisher. At any rate, that's the progression: either placement test to determine 87 or 1/2; or Math 76, Math 87, Alg. 1/Math 76, Alg. 1/2, Algebra 1.

Also FTR, when Math 87 was first published, the sequence was different: Math 76, Alg. 1/2, Alg. 1, or if the dc had less than 80% average, Math 76, Math 87, Alg. 1. I don't remember when or why the change was made. Again, the publisher would be able to tell you if you really needed to know.

[hinzafin]

I am also following this thread.

[kiwik]

On 7/28/2021 at 4:44 AM, Ellie said:

Saxon is not prescriptive. That is, it was not written to for the teacher to pick and choose what works for each child. It was written to be specifically used the way it is actually published. You could say that the Saxon methodology is not the best for someone, but if that's the text being used, it should be used the way it is written. Don't shot the messenger; it is what the author/publisher says.

That is the exact definition of prescriptive isn't it?  The opposite is a programme that is non prescriptive and can be adjusted to suit.

[Dianthus]

I really wanted more help on the other subjects, not math:(  I'm going with Saxon for dd.  Also have my cart full of Memoria.  I can try and see how it goes and switch if it doesn't work.  It seems to be calling to me... haha.  Hate that I'm down to the last minute.  We should be doing school now and I'm still shopping.

[Lori D.]

3 hours ago, Spirea said:

...a box from one publisher....
... I really wanted more help on the other subjects, not math:(  I'm going with Saxon for dd...
...

I have used Bookshark/Sonlight.  I liked it for younger years, but didn't like the booklist  as much later and found it to be too much reading...
... my cart full of Memoria.  I can try and see how it goes and switch if it doesn't work..

Honestly, that's why I suggested a variety of publishers, BUT all of the suggestions are ones that would be low-parent-time-intensive to help you streamline your schedule and parent-involvement time. 😉

Because other than the Memoria charter, to get a single publisher for most subjects other than Math, AND that is not lit.-heavy like Bookshark / Sonlight, I'm mostly finding Christian publishers -- and they tend to be textbook and/or workbook-based, and/or computer-based. Examples:

- Christian Light Education -- grade 1, grade 4, grade 7
- Alpha-Omega -- Lifepacs, or Switched On Schoolhouse, or Monarch
- ACE School of Tomorrow Paces (like Alpha Omega)
- Rod & Staff
- Abeka
- Bob Jones

On the other hand, since you only get reimbursed for secular, the publishers who are secular seem to be mostly all-online, especially for grades about 6th grade...
- Calvert
- Time4Learning
- whatever is your local virtual online charter

...or the secular all-in-one publishers tend to be literature-based, and each child would have separate History and Science topics from the siblings. Examples:
- Build Your Own Library -- grade 7, grade 4, grade 1
- Moving Beyond the Page

So, maybe going with Memoria for a year will give you a break, help you get your 1st grader reading well to free you up a bit for following years. And then the following school year when your oldest is 8th grade, you might consider doing what a lot of homeschoolers do -- outsource the then-8th grader with a few of the subjects that would be the most time-consuming for you to oversee (like Writing, or Science, or Math, or Foreign Language...). Just a thought. Good luck, whatever you decide to go with this year.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Lori D.

[kiwik]

Ds12 is using Lantern English 2 this year (did 1 last year) which covers writing, g rammar, vocabulary and Literature.  That alone would take a lot of the load off though I am still involved.   I have also signed him up for Middle School Latin with Fundafunda.  If both those work out I will look at Derek Owens PA starting in February when the NZ school year starts.  I work pretty much full time and I have reached the age and stage where if I want to live another 20 plus years I need to be able to sleep more and get some exercise and a better diet.  

[Dianthus]

I ordered Memoria for everything but math.   😄

Edited August 12, 2021 by Spirea

[Lori D.]

Thanks for updating with what you decided to go with. And BEST of luck! Have a great year with Memoria.