I believe we are one of those homeschool failure families.....

[home4school]

I have been seeing all the threads about the academically gifted, skipping grades, etc. while we have been having our usual awful days here. I have 2 ds, 10 & 12. I know I have posted several times before about our troubles over the last several years. :( Then I saw the thread about ps doing more than hsers give them credit for. I just think after reading all the posts, I may not be helping my children by keeping them home.

 

I don't think its because I'm one of those moms who doesn't put forth effort, bc I spend EVERY evening, LOTS of time of weekends, putting things together for the week. I print myself a weekly schedule and each son has his own weeky schedule listed by day, time, subject, etc. (very detailed). Problem is, all the little boxes NEVER get checked off.

 

My oldest ds12 is a handful. Probably would be dx ADHD, hates reading, hates anything to do with school. He's always on the go. How much higher, how much faster, how much farther....you get the idea. My younger is cooperative and tries to do what is expected. But, the oldest will start something and everyone gets upset, things fall apart, nothing gets done. I've tried timeouts, push-ups, sent to room to work, but nothing seems to make an impact and I'm not consistent with anything disciplinewise. He will purposefully try to push my buttons and I let me and lose my temper and yell - EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. Most days I end up in tears.

 

I know he's not academically gifted, but he is an amazing, pretty good kid and I know he can be something special when he's grown. I just don't know how to deal with him anymore....I'm tired....I'm just tired.

 

I'm afraid he would fall thru the cracks at ps, though. He went there for 1st and would bring home worksheets with over half the answers wrong and a big smiley face and Good Job at the top. The teacher said she knew he knew the right answers, he just couldn't focus long enough to write them down! He would just write something so he could move to a free time center with friends.

 

OOOHHHH, in PRESCHOOL!!!! he had to sit out an entire recess, bc he wouldn't sit still long enough to color a picture of a smiley face sun! The teacher said he just wouldn't focus and do it, so she told him he could play when he had done it correctly. He ended up IN PRESCHOOL NOW, having to bring it home and do it!

 

I just don't know..I have spent so much time and money on curriculum. I research and try all these things I think he'll enjoy trying to make it fun...but the reality is things just don't get done! We started the first week of Sept in Jamestown and we haven't even made it thru Colonization. Started same time with science, we're on lesson 4!!!!

 

I just don't want to realize we are hsing failures. Thanks for reading this far.

 

Blessings,

Kim

[Carol in Cal.]

Flat out. Not the right fit for him or for most kids that age, way too academic, not tuned in to the developmental needs of that age--wrong on many, many levels. So don't hold that one against him.

 

For right now, gently, curricula don't teach. You do.

 

Take a deep breath. Think about the basics. Does he know reading, writing, and math? If not, focus on those alone for a while. They are never optional.

 

Then, what does he like?

 

If he likes motion, what about physics? What about more hands on physics, and then having him write about that? Give him breaks where he has to run or climb, and then pull him back to his work.

 

For history, I happen to love it but maybe he does not. Does he like to build models? Is that what will make history 'stick' for him? Then have his timeline be in 3 dimensions, maybe. And take him to a lot of living history sites and reenactments. Let him look forward to those trips as the 'reward' for getting to that point in his history learning. Give him something to look forward to.

 

You might need to separate the two kids while they are doing core school work.

 

Maybe a classical style is not best for this child. Find the right fit for him that is acceptable for you and do it. Even SWB would say that.

[swellmomma]

Do you have my son living at your house? Has your son been actually Dx with ADHD? If so are you using meds? I ask because my ADHD son is extremely difficult but is 100x worse if I don't use meds. He attended ps for a couple years and was falling through the cracks, they kept passing him even though he didn't know how to do the work to avoid hurting his self esteem. Like you I have spent a lot of time plannin, organizing etc with what feels like very little to show for it. I don't have any answers for you, just know you are not alone in feeling like you are failing. The problem I have found in dealing with these kids, is that I felt like I was failing them by sending them to school because it was a huge mess and they were not getting the help they needed, but at home I also feel like a failure in their educations, and as a parent in general. I have learned the hard way this year I can not combine my kids in anything academically, because when one is cooperating the other isn't and vice versa, which means I am finally making progress though it is so minimal most people figure are still doing nothing. Have you found a time of day that your son is most responsive? I know mine does really well between 1-3 and again after about 6 pm, so I try to do school with him then, in the winter this is great because none of his friends are outside because it is dark by 4 pm. My daughter on the other hand(also adhd) works best from about 10-12 and then again between 2-4. I find that if I keep our days open and cycle through them like they they accomplish much more though I feel drained by the end of the night. Maybe finding a time of day that works best even if it is the evening will help eliminate the stress, also do not let your oldest derail your other child's learning, maybe school with the cooperative one first then work with the other.

[Ria]

Kim,

 

I'm sorry you are feeling this way. Let me ask - is your son on any medications for ADHD? Does he have a diagnosis? I know a lot of parents shy away from having a child diagnosed because they fear a "label," but let me tell you, once a child is diagnosed people can reach out and help. Medication might be the answer...goodness knows, it sounds like you've been trying awfully hard by yourself. Do you think seeing a doc might help? Are you open to the idea? Homeschooling might be a different ball game if your son can concentrate, you know?

 

I'll keep you and your family in my prayers. You are not a failure.

 

Ria

[Pamela H in Texas]

It doesn't sound to ME like you're a homeschool failure (hmmm, but if *I* am one, that wouldn't mean much, huh?). A lot of homeschoolers put more on their schedule than they actually get to. Question really is if you're getting to a good bit of it, what is reasonable for your children, etc.

 

I do want to gently push you towards considering an evaluation and treatment for your ds. It may be that he has a REAL bio/neuro issue. It's not fair to ANY of you not to address it if he does. That MIGHT mean medication or might not. It might be temporary or longer-term. A multi-prong approach is probably necessary. But getting appropriate help may make A LOT of things go better. A lot of us are quite anti-label and even more anti-med, but if a kid needs a label, a treatment, even medication, then they DO. It doesn't change just because we have an opinion about it.

 

Also, like Carol said, different things work for different kids. It may make a lot more sense to change the style or use less ideal curriculum for some subjects, to separate the kids, whatever.

 

Anyway, I hope this helps a little. I was SO slow about making these changes for my own children. I wish I had done so much earlier. Of course, hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to see now that things are going so much better. But even if it DIDN"T work? at least you tried...

[Ottakee]

I think you do need to look carefully at your homeschooling and make adjustments so that the boys are getting their school work done on a regular basis or look at other schooling options.

 

I agree with the others about seeking an evaluation for your oldest son. Meds can make a HUGE difference for the positive if they are needed. My daughter who could not read even one sentence without getting distracted gained 2 years of academics in 6 months after starting meds. She could finally focus long enough to get her work done.

 

Could YOU have some ADD/ADHD yourself? I hear that often on the SL forums that the moms realize that the reason they struggle with organization, getting things done, etc. is that they have ADD and combined with a child with ADHD they just weren't getting things done.

 

We went with ACE paces http://www.schooloftomorrow.com as they work great for self teaching and for my girls with ADD/ADHD. A different program might help you out as well.

 

If you do decide that they need to go to school, don't think of yourself as a failure but rather as a mom that cares enough to get the best for her children--be that homeschool, public school, private school, etc. Homeschooling is wonderful but I don't feel that it is best in every situation.

[Kathy in MD]

I, too, recommend good, thorough testing. And testing doesn't necessarily mean meds. There are many problems that can display every single symptom of ADHD. And the treatment is very different for each problem. I anticipated an ADHD diagnosis when I had my ds evaluated, but he had a combination of some of these problems -- but no ADHD.

 

Or some of these alternative problems could be combined with ADHD and by treating these auxilary problems can reduce the need for ADHD meds.

 

Remember that labels are good --IF you use them as a jumping off point to finding solutions. Remember also that if you don't get a good, medical label, your ds and the others around him will apply other, less desirable labels. These labels are dumb, stupid, lazy, hopeless and bad. My ds still calls himself these names occasionally because I waited too long to have him "labeled".

[Susan A.]

I tutored a kindergartener last year who was the proverbial "handful". He had gone to the preschool at our church and they couldn't do anything with him unless he was in the mood to work. His mother is a friend of mine and always said she would send him at my house! I thought she was kidding until two weeks before school started she seriously asked if she could. She knew (and I did as well), that he would never make it in PS. I agreed ( I am a nurse practitioner as well - so I have had a little training with LD issues), but refused to take any money because I wasn't sure if I would make any progress either. The little boy is incredibly gifted in math and on target in reading, but had funny quirks that totally interfered with learning. He had invented spelling and there was no talking him out of it if he spelled something wrong. He would drop a pencil on purpose and we would waste an hour waiting for him to pick it up. I was totally at a loss of what to do with him. His mother came early to pick him up one day and while he couldn't see her, she witnessed one of the pencil events. She took him to a center and had him tested and they diagnosed him with Asperger's syndrome. He is a different child today. They knew exactly what to do with him and counseled his family as well. Today, he is the "good kid" at church, sits and does his work at school (he went to PS for the intensive therapy he could get there) - a joy to be around. No one can believe the difference in him.

 

Don't lose hope and keep an open mind with options for your son.

[LG Gone Wild]

I have been seeing all the threads about the academically gifted, skipping grades, etc. while we have been having our usual awful days here. I have 2 ds, 10 & 12. I know I have posted several times before about our troubles over the last several years. :( Then I saw the thread about ps doing more than hsers give them credit for. I just think after reading all the posts, I may not be helping my children by keeping them home.

 

I don't think its because I'm one of those moms who doesn't put forth effort, bc I spend EVERY evening, LOTS of time of weekends, putting things together for the week. I print myself a weekly schedule and each son has his own weeky schedule listed by day, time, subject, etc. (very detailed). Problem is, all the little boxes NEVER get checked off.

 

My oldest ds12 is a handful. Probably would be dx ADHD, hates reading, hates anything to do with school. He's always on the go. How much higher, how much faster, how much farther....you get the idea. My younger is cooperative and tries to do what is expected. But, the oldest will start something and everyone gets upset, things fall apart, nothing gets done. I've tried timeouts, push-ups, sent to room to work, but nothing seems to make an impact and I'm not consistent with anything disciplinewise. He will purposefully try to push my buttons and I let me and lose my temper and yell - EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. Most days I end up in tears.

 

I know he's not academically gifted, but he is an amazing, pretty good kid and I know he can be something special when he's grown. I just don't know how to deal with him anymore....I'm tired....I'm just tired.

 

I'm afraid he would fall thru the cracks at ps, though. He went there for 1st and would bring home worksheets with over half the answers wrong and a big smiley face and Good Job at the top. The teacher said she knew he knew the right answers, he just couldn't focus long enough to write them down! He would just write something so he could move to a free time center with friends.

 

OOOHHHH, in PRESCHOOL!!!! he had to sit out an entire recess, bc he wouldn't sit still long enough to color a picture of a smiley face sun! The teacher said he just wouldn't focus and do it, so she told him he could play when he had done it correctly. He ended up IN PRESCHOOL NOW, having to bring it home and do it!

 

I just don't know..I have spent so much time and money on curriculum. I research and try all these things I think he'll enjoy trying to make it fun...but the reality is things just don't get done! We started the first week of Sept in Jamestown and we haven't even made it thru Colonization. Started same time with science, we're on lesson 4!!!!

 

I just don't want to realize we are hsing failures. Thanks for reading this far.

 

Blessings,

Kim

 

 

Except that I don't cry, I curse. Kiddo didn't do that circle time gig. He just played with the legos and stuff. The preschool teacher quizzed and surprise! He knew his stuff despite going off and doing his own thing.

 

Don't mention about unfulfilled plans and unchecked task lists!

 

I just keep on keeping on and hopefully, one day, he might turn out to be a Tyler Florence or something.

[LG Gone Wild]

Do you have my son living at your house? Has your son been actually Dx with ADHD? If so are you using meds? I ask because my ADHD son is extremely difficult but is 100x worse if I don't use meds. He attended ps for a couple years and was falling through the cracks, they kept passing him even though he didn't know how to do the work to avoid hurting his self esteem. Like you I have spent a lot of time plannin, organizing etc with what feels like very little to show for it. I don't have any answers for you, just know you are not alone in feeling like you are failing. The problem I have found in dealing with these kids, is that I felt like I was failing them by sending them to school because it was a huge mess and they were not getting the help they needed, but at home I also feel like a failure in their educations, and as a parent in general. I have learned the hard way this year I can not combine my kids in anything academically, because when one is cooperating the other isn't and vice versa, which means I am finally making progress though it is so minimal most people figure are still doing nothing. Have you found a time of day that your son is most responsive? I know mine does really well between 1-3 and again after about 6 pm, so I try to do school with him then, in the winter this is great because none of his friends are outside because it is dark by 4 pm. My daughter on the other hand(also adhd) works best from about 10-12 and then again between 2-4. I find that if I keep our days open and cycle through them like they they accomplish much more though I feel drained by the end of the night. Maybe finding a time of day that works best even if it is the evening will help eliminate the stress, also do not let your oldest derail your other child's learning, maybe school with the cooperative one first then work with the other.

 

That is too creepy. My kids have the clocks as yours. One likes to school at the crack of dawn, the other late at night. I do have to be available all day and drained at night.

[home4school]

Thank you all for your responses, they've given me some things to think about!

 

 

Take a deep breath. Think about the basics. Does he know reading, writing, and math? If not, focus on those alone for a while. They are never optional.

 

Give him breaks where he has to run or climb, and then pull him back to his work.

 

For history, I happen to love it but maybe he does not. Does he like to build models? Is that what will make history 'stick' for him? Then have his timeline be in 3 dimensions, maybe. And take him to a lot of living history sites and reenactments. Let him look forward to those trips as the 'reward' for getting to that point in his history learning. Give him something to look forward to.

 

You might need to separate the two kids while they are doing core school work.

 

Maybe a classical style is not best for this child. Find the right fit for him that is acceptable for you and do it. Even SWB would say that.

 

I have always had math first, followed by spelling, and such bc I wanted to be sure those were done. But I found we never got to the fun stuff like science, history, or art. I switched things around and we try to do Bible first, then alt history, science, and art every other day and follow those daily with core subjects. But things always seem to get flipped around and things just aren't getting done. I have even read about loop scheduling, but I figure around here it would take us a month to make one pass thru the loop! :(

 

We switched math programs a lot, which I truly regret now, trying to find something that would make the lightbulb go on. Nothing really did, so I decided to stick it out with Singapore. He likes the plain black and white pages and is doing ok with it. But, from all the switching he is 12 and just finishing 4B. So, I've messed him up there.

 

I have been making a point this year with history to get a lot of living books, go on field trips, get videos and such and he is retaining tons of what little we have covered. Our progress timewise is just so slow. A day for a field trip is another book work day behind.

 

Have you found a time of day that your son is most responsive?

 

You know it seems more of a day to day thing. Some days are just better than others. I really haven't noticed a particular time of day, but I will start watching for that.

 

Let me ask - is your son on any medications for ADHD? Does he have a diagnosis? Homeschooling might be a different ball game if your son can concentrate, you know?

 

I'll keep you and your family in my prayers. You are not a failure.

 

No, we have always steered away from the med path. He doesn't even have a diagnosis. I've never really mentioned this to his doctor. But, maybe we are doing him an injustice by not giving him something to help him concentrate. We just always thought we could deal with it, he's just all boy, he'll outgrow it, etc... And the prayers are most graciously accepted!

 

I do want to gently push you towards considering an evaluation and treatment for your ds. It may be that he has a REAL bio/neuro issue. It's not fair to ANY of you not to address it if he does.

But even if it DIDN"T work? at least you tried...

 

I think we do owe it to everyone to consider a medical solution.

 

I think you do need to look carefully at your homeschooling and make adjustments so that the boys are getting their school work done on a regular basis or look at other schooling options.

 

Could YOU have some ADD/ADHD yourself? I hear that often on the SL forums that the moms realize that the reason they struggle with organization, getting things done, etc. is that they have ADD and combined with a child with ADHD they just weren't getting things done.

 

When I think about other options I think about his experience at co-op. All the teachers hunt me down to tell me what a wonderful, delightful, respectful student he is and how they never have a minutes problem with him. Totally blows my mind! BUT, when I ask him specific content questions about material covered, he doesn't have a clue! Yes, he's being a quiet, respectful student, but he isn't paying a bit of attention or retaining any of it. We are sporadic here, but when we are able to cover something, he really gets it. On the other hand, maybe the peer pressure and getting a real grade in ps would be quite the motivator.

 

And you know, I've never even entertained the possibilty I could be ADD, but now you know I might. I have always been one that if you put something in front of me or I know I have to do something, I just do it to get it done. But, when I think about it, I get distracted even planning lessons. I'll be looking for something on the internet and come across something else I think we would enjoy and before I know it, time is gone and I didn't finish what I sat down to do.

 

Remember also that if you don't get a good, medical label, your ds and the others around him will apply other, less desirable labels. These labels are dumb, stupid, lazy, hopeless and bad. My ds still calls himself these names occasionally because I waited too long to have him "labeled".

 

I do worry about him comparing himself to his younger brother who ALWAYS get done with anything before him, simply bc he justs does it without talking or getting up 10 times to go to the bathroom, or pick up the pencil he dropped for the 10th time.

 

He would drop a pencil on purpose and we would waste an hour waiting for him to pick it up.

 

Don't lose hope and keep an open mind with options for your son.

 

That's us! He's up sharpening the pencil, getting up to get it when he drops it, getting up to get an eraser, etc. And something that should take less than a minute takes over fifteen!

 

Well, thank you all again. I really need to put some thought and prayer into this med path. Certainly it wouldn't hurt to talk to his doctor. It just hurts me so much when I think about all my hs plans, all the effort I put into finding things, printing things, making things -- it seems all for nothing. You know, he still hasn't mastered his multiplication facts. I really just can't imagine ps harming him anymore than I have. But, I just don't feel like that's what God is calling me to do. Maybe the big lesson here is for me to learn and not my son.

 

Blessings,

Kim

[mamato3 all-boy boys]

First, :grouphug:

 

I want to second all the recommendations to have your son evaluated. Please consider a thorough psycho-educational assessment. I wish I could send you to the excellent educational psychologist I worked with 7years ago -- she did fantastic assessments of cognitive and educational abilities and usually referred to me (I was a speech language pathologist). Together, these assessments revealed holes and gaps in several students' language learning, processing, and cognitive-communication skills. Yes, many of these students also suffered from ADD/ADHD but many did not. I know these assessments can be expensive, however.......

 

Once you have a full picture of his strengths and weakness you will know how to proceed and chose an appropriate educational plan for him.

 

Sending up a prayer for you and your son....

[Kathy in MD]

First, :grouphug:

 

I want to second all the recommendations to have your son evaluated. Please consider a thorough psycho-educational assessment. I wish I could send you to the excellent educational psychologist I worked with 7years ago -- she did fantastic assessments of cognitive and educational abilities and usually referred to me (I was a speech language pathologist). Together, these assessments revealed holes and gaps in several students' language learning, processing, and cognitive-communication skills. Yes, many of these students also suffered from ADD/ADHD but many did not. I know these assessments can be expensive, however.......

 

 

 

May I interject that a psycho-educational assessment is only part of a thorough evaluation? In addition to the problems you mentioned, there are other problems that can look like ADHD that are picked up by other specialists. These would include food sensitivities, dev vision problems, and Sensory Processing Dysfunction. A few other problems that could add to the problems are nutritional deficences, heavy metal poisoning or sleep apnea. A psycho-educational assessment won't check for many of these problems. A good developmental ped, which the OP is planning on seeing first, will recomend a psych-ed evaluation.

[Kathy in MD]

.......

When I think about other options I think about his experience at co-op. All the teachers hunt me down to tell me what a wonderful, delightful, respectful student he is and how they never have a minutes problem with him. Totally blows my mind! BUT, when I ask him specific content questions about material covered, he doesn't have a clue! Yes, he's being a quiet, respectful student, but he isn't paying a bit of attention or retaining any of it. We are sporadic here, but when we are able to cover something, he really gets it. On the other hand, maybe the peer pressure and getting a real grade in ps would be quite the motivator.

...........

 

 

My ds had a similar situation in kindergarten. He had a traditional k-garten teacher and she would comment that he was the only child that would stay in his seat. But like you, I noticed that he wasn't learning anything. My thoughts were that all of my ds's concentration was focused on staying seated to please his teacher. He had no brain space left to focus on what the teacher was trying to teach.

[mamato3 all-boy boys]

May I interject that a psycho-educational assessment is only part of a thorough evaluation? ....A good developmental ped, which the OP is planning on seeing first, will recommend a psych-ed evaluation.

 

I totally agree, Kathy, I must have missed the OP's comments that she was going to see a developmental ped....... thanks for catching that. I had not been privileged in my professional career to work with any developmental pediatricians and have seen several students mis-diagnosed with only ADD/ADHD when in fact they had significant language and processing issues going on as well.

 

Blessings,

[Peela]

My son is 13 and we only had him tested in January and he is dyslexic. I cant tell you the relief it was for both of us to know it wasn't me, or him, but a brain wiring difference!

But we still struggle day to day. I have had melt downs recently.

 

I do have another child who excels academically, and she does that without trying too hard, so I am heartened by that. If I was only homeschooling my son, I would really doubt myself and probably despair more than I do.

 

One thing that jumped out at me was your spending time making very detailed weekly plans that you then don't complete. I think you might be better off enjoying your time off- having a bath, reading a book for yourself, taking a walk alone or with the kids, whatever- instead of planning in such great detail. My kids have specific plans but I always set it up so that my weekly planning is very minimal, because I value my weekends and spare time. I also trust that seasons come and go and we seem to have a pattern that 4th term (we have 4 school terms) is rather more relaxed than the other 3.

Perhaps you need to adapt your planning more to the boys' temperaments and less to an ideal classical education. I always liked the Moore's stuff for boys. The book An Angel in the Marble was also inspiring to me for balancing schoolwork and following the kids' interests. I think the author of that had his 3 boys do academics only 3 days a week.

 

Sometimes for history, we just read. But reading is good.

I couldnt manage science, so they go to a class. It gets done then.

 

Its ok. You dont know that your boys would be better at school- my son would not do well at school but that doesnt mean he does brilliantly at home, either. It's just overal psychologically and spiritually and emotionally better for him to be at home. That doesnt mean I am a failure, or he is a failure.