Where does Derek Owens Math fall on the "rigor scale"?

[TheAttachedMama]

Hello Everyone,

In your opinion, where does Derek Owens fall on the "rigor scale" of math curriculum for the high school age?    

[EKS]

I will rank the programs I have some knowledge of, going from least rigorous to most rigorous:

MUS, TT, Lial, Holt/Berger, Derek Owens, Foerster, AoPS 

So on the more rigorous side of middle.  

ETA: Here is the ranking after some discussion:

Less rigorous:  MUS, TT

Average rigor:  Lial, Holt

More rigorous:  Jacobs, DO, Foerster

Most rigorous:  AoPS

Edited July 24, 2020 by EKS

[EKS]

25 minutes ago, square_25 said:

So, this is from the perspective of someone who’s seen nothing but samples, but why is TT more rigorous than MUS?

Doing these sorts of rankings is difficult.  I probably should have done it like this:

Lower rigor:  MUS, TT

Medium rigor:  Lial, Holt

Higher rigor:  DO, Foerster, AoPS

 

[EKS]

5 minutes ago, square_25 said:

AoPS, I’d assume, is very much its own thing.

Do you mean that it should be put into another category?

[EKS]

5 minutes ago, square_25 said:

You know, I don't know enough about the other choices to say! But I do think discovery-based learning is a different kind of beast. 

But the OP was just asking about rigor.  Do you agree that of the three categories, AoPS should be in the more rigorous one?   Maybe I need a fourth category--"most rigorous"?

Note that I don't particularly like the term rigorous.

Edited July 24, 2020 by EKS

[EKS]

2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Oof. Yeah, I'd have to look at more samples. I would actually be much more interested in what you think as a comparison -- does it feel like the same level or not? 

No--AoPS is far superior to DO and Foerster.  

[EKS]

2 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Then perhaps it does need its own category! 

From my experience, it feels a bit below the textbooks I used in college when doing my math degree (which were also proof-focused in a way high school textbooks never are -- although those weren't usually discovery method.)

Ok--here is the new ranking:

Less rigorous:  MUS, TT

Average rigor:  Lial, Holt

More rigorous:  DO, Foerster

Most rigorous:  AoPS

[EKS]

2 minutes ago, kand said:

Lial’s Algebra 1 isn’t much behind DO Algebra 1, but Lial’s Algebra 2 is far less rigorous than DO Algebra 2.

I agree with this.

2 minutes ago, kand said:

Where might Jacobs go on this scale?

I'd put Jacobs on the same level as DO.

[EKS]

29 minutes ago, square_25 said:

How's it different? I remember reading good stuff about it. 

It's discovery based, at least to some extent.  We loved Jacobs here.

ETA: I edited the original ranking to include Jacobs.

Edited July 24, 2020 by EKS

[Paige]

Where would you throw Dolciani and Jurgenson in on that scale?

[Meriwether]

9 hours ago, EKS said:

It's discovery based, at least to some extent.  We loved Jacobs here.

ETA: I edited the original ranking to include Jacobs.

Jacobs Elementary Algebra is my favorite math resource from K'er to graduation.

[TheAttachedMama]

On 7/24/2020 at 2:31 PM, EKS said:

But the OP was just asking about rigor.  Do you agree that of the three categories, AoPS should be in the more rigorous one?   Maybe I need a fourth category--"most rigorous"?

Note that I don't particularly like the term rigorous.

I don't really like the term "rigorous" either.  🙂  However, I was at a loss for another word.  

 

I really like your rating scale.  It was very helpful.

[ByGrace3]

oooh I kind of love this question . . . can you wise women throw a few more onto the scale???? What about Mr D? maybe even Saxon? Keeping in mind of course that this is linear thinking and there are a bunch of contributing factors to choosing a math curriculum . . . . I think knowing where a curriculum falls on a rigor scale is helpful.

[EKS]

8 minutes ago, ByGrace3 said:

oooh I kind of love this question . . . can you wise women throw a few more onto the scale???? What about Mr D? maybe even Saxon? Keeping in mind of course that this is linear thinking and there are a bunch of contributing factors to choosing a math curriculum . . . . I think knowing where a curriculum falls on a rigor scale is helpful.

I'd put Saxon into the average rigor category.

[8filltheheart]

If anyone is interested in a student's multi-yr distant perspective, here is ds's.  (For background info, he used MUS's alg and geo as pre-alg/pre-geo at age 10. He completed Foerster's alg 1 and 2/trig, Alexander's geo, and AoPS C&P and Intermediate alg before high school, and then AoPS precal, cal followed by multivariable, diffEQ 1 and 2, and linear alg during high school. He graduated from high school 6 yrs ago.) 

I had a conversation with him about his math progression and his recommendations bc his littlest sister seems to be on a similar trajectory (if she decides she wants to pursue math like this.  One of his other sisters could have but did not have the interest in math.)  She is 10 and using the MUS text (which is absolutely not on par with Foerster's.....btdt progression 7 times already. It makes it difficult for me to even equate MUS's alg and geo as actual high school alg and geo texts.)  I asked him if he thought we should just go straight to AoPS or use Foersters after MUS.  I was actually surprised by his response.  He told me not to skip Foerster's.  He said he believes his math skills are what they are bc of both.  He said the applied problem-solving skills he mastered in Foerster's are every bit as important as the math theory/proofs he mastered in AoPS.  AoPS definitely covers a different and much broader scope than traditional high school courses, but the word problems in Foerster's apply concepts in a way he feels is important in mastering.

That is as about intelligible of a translation as I can give about his perspective b/c he left me behind in math before he finished 8th grade 🙂 but he was pretty adamant about my using Foerster's next.  

And to add to the list above, I have had 2 kids go from DO's precal (the Sullivan text is probably the key here since we only use his lectures) into Thinkwell's cal.  If CLEP scores are any indication of the thoroughness of Thinkwell, dd made almost a perfect score on the cal test. 

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by 8FillTheHeart