7th Gr - Math overview - BJU or R&S?

[Bay Lake Mom]

I need help choosing. I’m planning on doing a solid overview of elementary math for my 7th grader this year. I own 2 curriculum sets that I think would accomplish this well,  but I cannot choose!  I’m aware that one is mastery and one is spiral. She does fine with either approach, so that isn’t a concern. Does anyone have experience with these that they can share?

BJU Fundamentals of Math - This looks more challenging, but I think it will prepare her very well for Pre-Algebra and High School Math.  I am concerned it might be overwhelming.  I would not require all problems to be completed each day though.

R&S Math 6 - I’ve heard this is a great overview, but it definitely looks less challenging than BJU. Obviously it is written for 6th grade so it wouldn’t be as challenging.  Would it be enough to prepare for Pre-Algebra?

[Another Lynn]

4 hours ago, OKBud said:

Hmm I don't think either of the things you have will be exactly what you want... a straightforward overview of all elementary math. One isn't straightforward and one isn't an overview.

Rod and Staff 6 is still introducing new "elementary math," so obviously it's not giving an overview. 

However, if you think your daughter would be appropriately placed in R&S 6, definitely do that. Because if that's the case, she's not ready for Fundamentals of Math, ykwim? 

 

So, pre-algebra itself *is* an overview of elementary arithmetic. Some programs will add in more or less Algebraic problems, but the gist is a solid review before hitting Algebra.

It's so important to work right at the level your kid is at right now, instead of trying to "get ready for the next thing." Sometimes those two places are one and the same, but sometimes they are not and there's no sense in pushing the kid into something they aren't ready for in order to prepare them for the next step [such as BJU FOM when she needs R&S 6 to prepare for Pre-A], because it's less effective for preparing them for the next step! I'm speaking from the bottom of that trap LOL

That said, it's a good idea to take into account what the kid has been doing up to this point, and what you tentatively plan on doing next... so what has she been doing and what do you plan to do next?

I have been considering BJU 7 Fundamentals of Math for similar reasons as the OP - an opportunity to solidify elementary arithmetic without too much emphasis on pre-algebra.  I'm interested in your opinion.  You think it's not straightforward?  Normally I'm not a fan of BJU because the TM is directed towards class room situations, but I'm hoping to keep blinders on and ignore the extras.  I think the A, B, and C problems and the Cumulative Reviews will be similar to the publisher we're likely to use for highschool math.  I'd like to assign the odds from the B section, a couple from C and then the cumulative reviews keeping it to 20-30 problems/day.  I'm all ears for your thoughts re. BJU.   

[kristin0713]

I was in the same boat two years ago and almost went with BJU, but then opted for CLE.  I am SO GLAD I did. It covers pre-algebra over two years.  My daughter is now very prepared to start algebra 1 this year in 9th.   

[Zoo Keeper]

21 hours ago, Another Lynn said:

I have been considering BJU 7 Fundamentals of Math for similar reasons as the OP - an opportunity to solidify elementary arithmetic without too much emphasis on pre-algebra.  I'm interested in your opinion.  You think it's not straightforward?  Normally I'm not a fan of BJU because the TM is directed towards class room situations, but I'm hoping to keep blinders on and ignore the extras.  I think the A, B, and C problems and the Cumulative Reviews will be similar to the publisher we're likely to use for highschool math.  I'd like to assign the odds from the B section, a couple from C and then the cumulative reviews keeping it to 20-30 problems/day.  I'm all ears for your thoughts re. BJU.   

So, I'm not OKBud, 😉

BUT

I have used both BJU Fundamentals (3 times) and R&S 6 (4 times and counting).  Here's my take: I *would not* use BJU math (any grade, including high school) with a kid who struggles and/or needs lots and lots of review to get a concept.  BJU does have good conceptual teaching, but it is concise, moves at a quick pace, and it does not have enough daily review of previously learned topics for the struggling learner to do well in elementary (K-8), IMO.  My two kids who did very well with Fundamentals are my quickest to get math concepts, and lots of repetitive practice (usually) isn't as necessary.  

Also,  if I remember correctly, R&S does not mention set theory or coordinate graphing in the 6th or in the 7th grade book-- BJU does intro these topics in Fundamentals and takes it further in the Pre-A book (has slope, more set theory, and more work with harder equations).  R&S is just gentler in what Pre-A stuff it introduces. 

R&S 6 is NOT equal to BJU's Fundamentals book.  Fundamentals introduces more topics than R&S at that grade level.

I think R&S is good for a slow and steady kid who needs lots of review in order for things to stick, BJU is better for a kid who gets it  more quickly and really doesn't need quite as much review. 

Last year's 7th grader (who is quick in math) did Fundamentals, and only had a few times when the explanations in the book didn't click-- but a few minutes of help was all she needed (and honestly, that help wasn't in the TM, because BJU TM's are written for math teachers who already know the math, not a sleep deprived homeschool mom who hasn't had her coffee yet and was a humanities major, for crying out loud...) I could help her because she is kid #4  to do jr. high math with me and I've done my homework, not because the TM told me what to say and how to say it.

But this year, for 8th grade, she and I decided together on Saxon 8/7 (and some of Saxon Algebra 1/2 )  for her, because by her own admission, she "got" her math last year (Fundamentals), but she really doesn't remember it...and some various placement testing shows this to be true.  To be clear, I don't think that this is the fault of BJU math, just more a maturity/teen brain fog issue and she needs another year to marinade before Algebra (and she needed a break from R&S math, which she did K-6th.)  R&S 8 is my backup plan in case Saxon goes badly for her. 🙂

Edited July 12, 2020 by Zoo Keeper

[Another Lynn]

@Bay Lake Mom I apologize for semi-hi-jacking your thread, but I hope the continued conversations are helpful!  Hope you don't mind me asking more things here.  😬

@OKBud  Okay, I understand what you're saying about skipping stuff and BJU not being very open and go.  I also appreciate what you're saying about taking a year to repeat.  My dd has mostly done CLE.  Last year we got about half way through 600 before I began to sort of hodge podge some pre-algebra stuff I had on hand.  But by the end of the year, I felt like she wasn't as solid on fractions and decimals as I thought.  I do sort of like switching to mastery around this stage to encourage connections instead of math feeling like a gazillion separate little things.  Do you have any suggestions for a 1 year solidifying of arithmetic.  She's not a math struggler, but she's not necessarily going to thrive with Singapore or Math Mammoth either.  

@Zoo Keeper  Thank you for sharing your experience.  I am better at math than humanities and I am telling myself that if I use the BJU, I am going to have to prepare ahead of time to teach it to her in a clear way and not expect to sit down, open the book and wing it.  But she is my youngest and I don't have as many demands on my time as I used to.  I'm not sure if my dd will need more daily review of topics or if BJU would work for her.  Would you recommend R&S (6 or 7) for a good one year solidifying of arithmetic?  Or something else altogether?  

[Ellie]

On 7/10/2020 at 7:37 AM, Bay Lake Mom said:

I need help choosing. I’m planning on doing a solid overview of elementary math for my 7th grader this year. I own 2 curriculum sets that I think would accomplish this well,  but I cannot choose!  I’m aware that one is mastery and one is spiral. She does fine with either approach, so that isn’t a concern. Does anyone have experience with these that they can share?

BJU Fundamentals of Math - This looks more challenging, but I think it will prepare her very well for Pre-Algebra and High School Math.  I am concerned it might be overwhelming.  I would not require all problems to be completed each day though.

R&S Math 6 - I’ve heard this is a great overview, but it definitely looks less challenging than BJU. Obviously it is written for 6th grade so it wouldn’t be as challenging.  Would it be enough to prepare for Pre-Algebra?

Many people here have reported that their dc did R&S math up until algebra and succeeded in algebra. I would do R&S.

[Another Lynn]

1 hour ago, OKBud said:

 

Yeah, I'm a fan of just doing year 5.6, or 7 over with another curriculum. We've used Rays *a lot*. Rod and Staff... just whatever. But I mean, FOM might be just exactly what you need. I'm loathe to mention them, but masterbooks does have a similar program. 

Keys To~ is really good. 

 

1 hour ago, OKBud said:

Mine too for my 8th grader. 

 

The more I think about it, the more I lean towards maybe we just aren't ready for a mastery based text yet.  Maybe we need another year of spiral (and "over practice/ automaticity") and wait on mastery based texts until we hit algebra.  

[Ellie]

16 minutes ago, Another Lynn said:

The more I think about it, the more I lean towards maybe we just aren't ready for a mastery based text yet.  Maybe we need another year of spiral (and "over practice/ automaticity") and wait on mastery based texts until we hit algebra.  

Honestly, I can't tell which is "spiral" and which is "mastery." People generally aren't clear on which is which, as I've seen the same publisher characterized both ways more than once. I think either or both is just fine, depending on how it's written.

[Another Lynn]

24 minutes ago, Ellie said:

Honestly, I can't tell which is "spiral" and which is "mastery." People generally aren't clear on which is which, as I've seen the same publisher characterized both ways more than once. I think either or both is just fine, depending on how it's written.

Well, I may be wrong, but I tend to think R&S and BJU are both mastery (basing this partly on organization of topics), where Saxon and CLE are more spiral.  

[Zoo Keeper]

R&S math is mastery ( i. e. the whole chapter is about fractions, etc.) , but with a large dose of spiral (lots of daily review of previous concepts built into each lesson).

CLE is considerably more spiral, and Saxon is the cat that walks by himself. 😉

And it is easy to add a Spectrum math workbook, or a Evan Moor math book  to a R&S text to get more targeted review or to get more of the algebra type topics if you feel it is needed before a formal algebra course.  It is an easy and inexpensive way I've added more to R&S at times, for my kids who needed/wanted more.

[Bay Lake Mom]

OP here... 

This has been some great discussion.  I really appreciate all of the experienced moms chiming in.  I am leaning farther away from BJU.  I like R&S, but there is something about it that just seems like it wouldn't be a good fit.  I can't quite put my finger on it.  A few of you had mentioned CLE.  I am using it this year for my 10 yo (SN, Grade 2).  I'm not sure why I didn't consider it before for my 7th grader.  I have spent some time looking at all of the samples.  I like that it lays a great foundation for Algebra, but it doesn't seem overwhelming. 

I'm leaning more and more to CLE 7.