new raised garden bed - need opinions before filling it

[ktgrok]

DH and the kids built me a raised garden bed for Mother's day. Tomorrow he will go get a truckbed full of soil to fill it. Before we do that, I want to be sure I don't need to move it or anything, lol. Also, going to rig up the trellis tomorrow, and need opinions on that. 

the photos show the bed itself, and the overview of the yard so you can see where north/south/etc it. That little triangle of yard is really the only place to put it, but I can move it a bit more toward the fence and away from the house, etc if that matters. As it is I have it far enough away that the rain off the roof wont' smash into it. I'm hoping to put a trellis up on the back, or in the back half, to grow stuff on and shade those windows. The sun beats down on them in the afternoon and heats up the house terribly. Keep in mind this is Florida, so hot and humid - probably going to get already started plants as it is late here to be starting. i'm thinking cherry tomatoes (better in the heat), melon of some sort, maybe eggplant, basil, maybe another herb, and maybe some sunflowers just for fun for the kids. 

Thoughts? I bought netting on Amazon for the trellis, and DH will build it. the bed is 3 ft by a bit over 12 feet. Do I want the trellis along the back of the bed, or more like 1 ft from the back, so I can plant behind and in front of it, or?

Edited May 10, 2020 by Ktgrok

[KungFuPanda]

I would try to orient the short ends East/West and have the trellis on the North side. It's Ok if it's at an angle as long as you have room to move around it. It can also look really pretty and give you the opportunity to decorate the corners of your yard with other plantings or a small seating area. 

The easiest trellis in the world is t-posts with a cattle panel zip tied to it.  The soil matters. If your DH is getting a truckload of fill dirt you'll want to add some nutrients (compost) to it.

[almondbutterandjelly]

I like the trellis idea to shade the windows.  And you can keep them short enough so that you don't block your view from the windows of the sky (I like to see sky from my windows).

Not a gardener, but I do live in south Texas, and the afternoon heat just fries stuff.  Do you need to think about adding some more shade for the front side of the garden bed to block some of the harshest sun?  Like full sun for 12 hours would burn stuff here, especially with the afternoon sun.

[ktgrok]

7 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I would try to orient the short ends East/West and have the trellis on the North side. It's Ok if it's at an angle as long as you have room to move around it. It can also look really pretty and give you the opportunity to decorate the corners of your yard with other plantings or a small seating area. 

The easiest trellis in the world is t-posts with a cattle panel zip tied to it.  The soil matters. If your DH is getting a truckload of fill dirt you'll want to add some nutrients (compost) to it.

There isn't room to turn it that much...unfortunately. At the narrow end of the yard there is less than 3 ft on either side of it right now, just enough to manuver lawn mower, wheel barrow, etc. 

He's going to get a "mixed soil" I think - the tree nursery down the street makes it using mushroom compost, dirt, and I am not sure what else. 

2 minutes ago, perkybunch said:

I like the trellis idea to shade the windows.  And you can keep them short enough so that you don't block your view from the windows of the sky (I like to see sky from my windows).

Not a gardener, but I do live in south Texas, and the afternoon heat just fries stuff.  Do you need to think about adding some more shade for the front side of the garden bed to block some of the harshest sun?  Like full sun for 12 hours would burn stuff here, especially with the afternoon sun.

Two of those windows are a shower and a closet, lol. The third is my son's, and he is a night owl, so never looks out. 

It won't get sun all day, because the house will block the morning sun. And late afternoon I think the fence on the left will block the sun from the lower stuff. But it is still something to consider. 

[kbutton]

Raised beds are easy to plant and weed, etc., but they do tend to lose water. We have to water things in beds/buckets a lot more often than in the ground, just an FYI, not a dig on raised beds. 😉 

I would look up companion planting to see which items should be closer and farther apart. Some plants can stunt the growth of others or improve the flavor of others. It's all over the map. 

If you end up needing some fertilizer, besides compost, GardenTone is a nice brand. I think it's organic, and it's slow-release, so you won't burn your veggies. Tomatoes are heavy feeders, and I think melon is as well. I have heard good things about mushroom soil for gardens but have no direct experience.

If you do end up with more sun than you thought, and it's a problem, you can also put up screens for part of the day--some people use sheer curtains folded over a couple of times. 

Good luck!

[kbutton]

Oh, leaf color is a tip off about nutrients--too pale, purplish, etc. are things you can google to see what nutrients are needed.

[ktgrok]

22 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Raised beds are easy to plant and weed, etc., but they do tend to lose water. We have to water things in beds/buckets a lot more often than in the ground, just an FYI, not a dig on raised beds. 😉 

I would look up companion planting to see which items should be closer and farther apart. Some plants can stunt the growth of others or improve the flavor of others. It's all over the map. 

If you end up needing some fertilizer, besides compost, GardenTone is a nice brand. I think it's organic, and it's slow-release, so you won't burn your veggies. Tomatoes are heavy feeders, and I think melon is as well. I have heard good things about mushroom soil for gardens but have no direct experience.

If you do end up with more sun than you thought, and it's a problem, you can also put up screens for part of the day--some people use sheer curtains folded over a couple of times. 

Good luck!

Yeah, I'm going to use drip irrigation to hopefully keep it watered. But we have terrible nematode issues here in Florida, so in ground is super tough, plus the insects are even worse when we do that. I do like Garden Tone, and a few others. I am hoping my newfound lawn knowledge carries over a little!

[KungFuPanda]

22 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

There isn't room to turn it that much...unfortunately. At the narrow end of the yard there is less than 3 ft on either side of it right now, just enough to manuver lawn mower, wheel barrow, etc. 

He's going to get a "mixed soil" I think - the tree nursery down the street makes it using mushroom compost, dirt, and I am not sure what else. 

Two of those windows are a shower and a closet, lol. The third is my son's, and he is a night owl, so never looks out. 

It won't get sun all day, because the house will block the morning sun. And late afternoon I think the fence on the left will block the sun from the lower stuff. But it is still something to consider. 

 

Yeah, looking at the photo again I see that you don't really have a lot of space to turn it.  I wouldn't be afraid to run the trellis near, and parallel to,the windows. It'll help shade those windows during the hottest part of the summer, but won't block them year-round.  Just make sure you leave room to get behind it. I actually put my trellises down the center of my beds so I can reach things easier.  If you're not growing that many climbing veggies you can just trellis at the short end.  

The soil mix actually sounds pretty good.  How many hours of sun does the space get?  In your place I'd situate the bed in the sunniest spot.  Hours of direct sunlight will matter more than how hot it gets in the afternoon.  I grow a lot of stuff in "part sun" because I don't get more than 5 hours anywhere in my yard. 

I'd put down a layer of cardboard first and make sure it is soaking wet. Then, I'd add a layer of sticks as the bottom few inches.  These help with drainage, add organic matter as they break down, and help to hold onto water when it's dry.  They also take up space so you need less soil initially.  Once the soil is in, I'd finish with an inch or to of compost before planting.  

[kbutton]

5 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Yeah, I'm going to use drip irrigation to hopefully keep it watered. But we have terrible nematode issues here in Florida, so in ground is super tough, plus the insects are even worse when we do that. I do like Garden Tone, and a few others. I am hoping my newfound lawn knowledge carries over a little!

Raised beds sound like a great option for you. My grandpa always used them as well, but half of his yard was soggy part of the summer, so they solved that problem for him. I am sure drip irrigation will be really helpful! We were just caught short not realizing how big of difference the watering would be. 🙂 We moved a couple of years ago and are currently using small pieces of ground for some items and buckets/stock tank for the rest. Last year was the first year we were reasonably successful with some of our items in pots, lol! 

What do the nematodes do? Here people sometimes buy them to combat grubs, and it doesn't seem to be a problem. 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

 

Yeah, looking at the photo again I see that you don't really have a lot of space to turn it.  I wouldn't be afraid to run the trellis near, and parallel to,the windows. It'll help shade those windows during the hottest part of the summer, but won't block them year-round.  Just make sure you leave room to get behind it. I actually put my trellises down the center of my beds so I can reach things easier.  If you're not growing that many climbing veggies you can just trellis at the short end.  

The soil mix actually sounds pretty good.  How many hours of sun does the space get?  In your place I'd situate the bed in the sunniest spot.  Hours of direct sunlight will matter more than how hot it gets in the afternoon.  I grow a lot of stuff in "part sun" because I don't get more than 5 hours anywhere in my yard. 

I'd put down a layer of cardboard first and make sure it is soaking wet. Then, I'd add a layer of sticks as the bottom few inches.  These help with drainage, add organic matter as they break down, and help to hold onto water when it's dry.  They also take up space so you need less soil initially.  Once the soil is in, I'd finish with an inch or to of compost before planting.  

Yes, I'd planned on the cardboard as it helps keep the nematodes out according to the local university. But hadn't thought of the sticks! I can have the kids collect them from the back area under the oaks. Can I put green wood in there, if I get DH or DS to trim some branches down? The oak trees need thinning anyway. 

I think the centerish gets the most sun, due to house and fence, so sounds like it is good where it is. 

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

Raised beds sound like a great option for you. My grandpa always used them as well, but half of his yard was soggy part of the summer, so they solved that problem for him. I am sure drip irrigation will be really helpful! We were just caught short not realizing how big of difference the watering would be. 🙂 We moved a couple of years ago and are currently using small pieces of ground for some items and buckets/stock tank for the rest. Last year was the first year we were reasonably successful with some of our items in pots, lol! 

What do the nematodes do? Here people sometimes buy them to combat grubs, and it doesn't seem to be a problem. 

There are various kinds of nematodes. Good ones are great. Bad ones are TERRIBLE. The effect the roots. Some burrow into the roots and eat them from the inside out, causing root galls, and some live outside the root and suck the "juice" out of them. They kill veggies, they kill lawns, they are terrible. And no good way to kill them, other than solarizing the soil for months. In fact, I have them hurting my lawn, I'm pretty sure. I can send samples to be tested, but not sure it is worth it. I emailed the local university expert to ask. Basically, any controls available, be that a biological product or chemical miticide, only work on some of the species of nematode. So you get initially what looks like great improvement, and then the other species fill the gap and it starts all over again. At least, that is the issue with lawns. I think fewer types bother vegetables, so controls are a bit more effective there maybe. But it is a big problem in Florida. 

Years ago, people used certain organophosphate pesticides on their lawns/gardens to kill other things, and that also killed the nematodes. But when those went off the market for residential use people found other things that work on fleas, ants, whatever...but those products don't kill nematodes or bermudagrass mites, etc. So now there is a real issue with those things. (Not complaining about those being off the market...I was in my early days in vet clinics when they were still around and we saw a lot of very very sick dogs from them. And technically i could still get my hands on some, but I won't...way too risky)

This talks about different types...ones that feed on roots versus ones that help speed decomposition, etc. http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/nematode/soil_nematode.htm

Gardening issues with nematodes - cool photos. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ng005

Nematodes that effect lawns (with lots of cool pictures....fascinating, but driving me batty with my lawn, and why I wont' get the pretty Zoysia grass I want) http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ng039

 

[MEmama]

If you have something in the soil that will affect your plants, you’ll need a physical barrier in the bottom of your raised bed. The cardboard is great but will break down in a year or so, and your new soil will be right on top of your nematode filled soil.

Here we have a problem with tree roots that fill up my raised beds and even pots unless I raise them on bricks or something. Landscape fabric doesn’t help with roots (they grow right through) but seems like it would be a good solution for you where you want to avoid contamination with your soil.

[KungFuPanda]

33 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Yes, I'd planned on the cardboard as it helps keep the nematodes out according to the local university. But hadn't thought of the sticks! I can have the kids collect them from the back area under the oaks. Can I put green wood in there, if I get DH or DS to trim some branches down? The oak trees need thinning anyway. 

I think the centerish gets the most sun, due to house and fence, so sounds like it is good where it is. 

There are various kinds of nematodes. Good ones are great. Bad ones are TERRIBLE. The effect the roots. Some burrow into the roots and eat them from the inside out, causing root galls, and some live outside the root and suck the "juice" out of them. They kill veggies, they kill lawns, they are terrible. And no good way to kill them, other than solarizing the soil for months. In fact, I have them hurting my lawn, I'm pretty sure. I can send samples to be tested, but not sure it is worth it. I emailed the local university expert to ask. Basically, any controls available, be that a biological product or chemical miticide, only work on some of the species of nematode. So you get initially what looks like great improvement, and then the other species fill the gap and it starts all over again. At least, that is the issue with lawns. I think fewer types bother vegetables, so controls are a bit more effective there maybe. But it is a big problem in Florida. 

Years ago, people used certain organophosphate pesticides on their lawns/gardens to kill other things, and that also killed the nematodes. But when those went off the market for residential use people found other things that work on fleas, ants, whatever...but those products don't kill nematodes or bermudagrass mites, etc. So now there is a real issue with those things. (Not complaining about those being off the market...I was in my early days in vet clinics when they were still around and we saw a lot of very very sick dogs from them. And technically i could still get my hands on some, but I won't...way too risky)

This talks about different types...ones that feed on roots versus ones that help speed decomposition, etc. http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/nematode/soil_nematode.htm

Gardening issues with nematodes - cool photos. http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ng005

Nematodes that effect lawns (with lots of cool pictures....fascinating, but driving me batty with my lawn, and why I wont' get the pretty Zoysia grass I want) http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ng039

 

Green wood will suck the nitrogen from the soil. You need dead wood if you don’t want to work around that. 

[mathnerd]

When facing the sun, put the taller plants in the back and the shorter plants in the front so that they all get maximum exposure to sunlight.

Put a barrier at the bottom to prevent nematodes from getting inside. Leave a 4 inch overlap of the barrier projecting around all the 4 sides of the bed. If you have gophers or other digging animals, you have to put a layer of hardware cloth at the bottom and bend it on each side so that it overlaps the wood for a few inches to prevent them from getting into your bed.

Planting for child interest: heat tolerant spinach, heat tolerant lettuce, zucchini and strawberries - those grow fast and provide quick gratification for a small child. Zinnias and sunflowers are great as well.

Put a layer of dry wood if possible before filling. If you only have green wood, add some extra nitrogen fertilizer to the soil for the first season to make up for the nitrogen that they absorb.

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

Green wood will suck the nitrogen from the soil. You need dead wood if you don’t want to work around that. 

Makes sense. I do have a bunch of dead oak leaves, need to make sure they won't mess anything up if I put them in...as far as allelopathy or whatever. I know grass hates oak leaves. 

 

[Liz CA]

We filled two side by side raised beds on different weekends. One side regular garden soil, the other an organic soil. The veggies on the organic side are way taller than on the other side and the side with the regular soil was planted first.

[vonbon]

First, just want to say that I think your family's MD gift is so sweet!  And, it looks great!  👏👏👏😍

On the oak leaves: Good idea to research.  We have a ton of oaks and DH dumped a few wheelbarrow loads of the leaves along part of our driveway this past fall.  I was skeptical that they'd actual perform weed control, but they did!  This spring: No grass--nothing--grew where those oak leaves were dumped!  I think I'll keep using that strategy to cut down on weeds.

There are hundreds (?) of oak species, so yours might be different than ours...but something to be aware of.  

Also want to add that we grow veggies in raised beds but have patches of perennial herbs, perennial flowers, and annual flowers mixed in throughout the beds here and there.  The beneficials [insects] love them and they're pretty.  For the first time, I'm thinking of mixing a few succulents amongst the veggies too.  I have a ton of "hens and chicks", aloes, etc., that have multiplied...not enough pots...so I think I'll give it a shot.  

Have fun!  

[vonbon]

#1 Fastest and easiest veggie to grow; fun for kids because they come up and mature so quickly: Radishes!  

[I've been banned from growing them, though, because no one here will eat them.  I used to plant them every year but DH says "no more". 😆😊]

ETA: I didn't eat them either, beyond one or two...I just liked growing them because of their almost-instantaneous gratification.  Their leaves are happy-looking, cheerful.  

Edited May 11, 2020 by vonbon

[SoCal_Bear]

ditto on the recommendations for drip irrigation and for hardware cloth going up the sides with overlap!