What pre-algebra would you choose for this kid?

[pgr]

DS liked SM, did well enough with BA, and LOVED Jousting Armadillos. He's not an intuitively "mathy" child, so my plan had been to start with JA (I don't feel it's complete enough to stand alone) and then move on to AOPS Pre-Algebra. He has worked through the first chapter, and I'm not sure it's clicking.... 

AOPS has worked great for DD (who does have a natural inclination toward math). I love the approach, and I love that it is a full series that will take them through HS. It would definitely be my preference to wave a magic wand and have DS take to AOPS like DD has. But....

We also own Jacobs, which is OK, but dry, as is Dolciani. I'm pretty sure I've combed through most pre-Algebra threads and considered most resources, but, perhaps, I missed something? 

Is there a resource that reads like Jousting Armadillos but is a stand-alone curriculum that also has Algebra, Geometry, and beyond? I do know about the other two Arbor Center books, and plan to use them in the future as supplements.

ETA: I don't think online courses/content would work for this one.

TIA!!!

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by pgr

[pgr]

On 1/27/2020 at 9:38 PM, Paradox5 said:

Well not an online course exactly, but you might consider VideoText. It has a simialr conceptual approach as Singapore. I'm no help with anything else. My sons all bombed with BJU. Saxon isn't anything like what your son has done before.

https://videotext.com

 

Thank you! I'll take a look at it 😊

[forty-two]

On 1/26/2020 at 9:40 AM, pgr said:

We also own Jacobs, which is OK, but dry, as is Dolciani.

FWIW, I did a trial of AoPS Pre-A with my oldest (after finishing SM), which conclusively showed that AoPS wasn't a good fit for her.  I had Dolciani as a back-up.  When I'd flipped through Dolciani prior to trialling AoPS Pre-A, it had seemed dry and kinda uninspiring.  But after the trial, when I opened it and started teaching from it, the straightforward logic of it all was a sight for sore eyes, lol.  We're 2/3 of the way through it now, and I just keep liking it more and more, to the point making Dolciani my top Alg choice. 

[forty-two]

9 minutes ago, square_25 said:

What happened with AoPS? Was it expecting leaps that were too big? 

That, and also dd13 not caring about what AoPS cared about (and thus having zero motivation to work past the issues making it (extra) hard).  I picked AoPS because dd13 has good math intuition and has always cared so very very much about understanding *why* something is the way it is in math (and in general).  However, turns out all she cares about is *intuitively* understanding what's going on, not formally understanding what's going on.  And she hates having to explicitly *explain* why things are the way they are in general, and super hated having to do it formally.

In addition to those "philosophical differences", AoPS expected students to already know or to automatically pick up a lot of "variable manipulation skills" (for lack of a better term), and to be able to follow the steps of a proof as it was worked out.  While dd understood the idea of a variable standing in for an unknown number and could solve standard arithmetic equations with variables with ease (all the pre-test asked for), what she did *not* get was the idea of a variable standing in for *any* number.  (She's still shaky on that - every time we do functions, she has to be reminded/retaught about how f(n) relates to f(1), etc.)  And so while she could follow any individual step in a proof, she had no idea how anything about the proof related to any part of her intuitive understanding of math.  Also, while I could coach her through understanding the steps of the proof as I worked it out, she froze at the whole idea of doing math on variables that didn't have to do with finding a specific value for the variable; she also had a hard time seeing how the "doing things to both sides of the equation" way of solving connected to the "write and solve the equation, use what you found to write and solve the next equation" method she used in arithmetic.  I think all of that was solvable (I had similar issues connecting her intuitive understanding of math to writing out equations to show her work in word problems, and we managed that) - and working through her problems as they came up was the most informative diagnostic on her underlying conceptual weaknesses I've ever done - but it was a ridiculous amount of work having to stop all the time and explicitly teach her things AoPS assumed she'd naturally intuit, especially since it turned out she actively disliked the whole idea of proofs in the first place.

[pgr]

 

On 1/29/2020 at 6:18 PM, forty-two said:

FWIW, I did a trial of AoPS Pre-A with my oldest (after finishing SM), which conclusively showed that AoPS wasn't a good fit for her.  I had Dolciani as a back-up.  When I'd flipped through Dolciani prior to trialling AoPS Pre-A, it had seemed dry and kinda uninspiring.  But after the trial, when I opened it and started teaching from it, the straightforward logic of it all was a sight for sore eyes, lol.  We're 2/3 of the way through it now, and I just keep liking it more and more, to the point making Dolciani my top Alg choice. 

 

Yikes, I'm sorry - I missed the replies! Thank you - I'm pulling it out to look at it once more 😊.

[kiwik]

Have you done all 3 books in the JA series or just the first?

[EmilyGF]

I really liked AOPS for my oldest, but it hasn't clicked with DD13 (despite trying) and I KNEW it wouldn't work for DD11. 

I'm using an Pre-Algebra/Algebra called "Algebra: Themes, Tools, Concepts" with DD11 that I found a few months ago for free - and I'm really liking it. You might like it if you like JA. All the teacher helps are available for free on this site  and I got a used copy for a few dollars. It isn't a just-the-facts curriculum; it involves problem solving and exploration as well as some interesting rabbit trails like number theory and ciphers. I skip all the essay-type questions because they feel like busy work to me, but the core is really solid. The teacher helps page includes a PDF of various routes one could take through the book depending on the level of the student.

When it came out, it was a really controversial book. If you think Dolciani is the be-all-and-end-all, you won't like it. But, for us, knowing that my daughter would enjoy the exploration and hands-on sides of it, it was worth a try and it is working well. My only regret is that I didn't find this in time to use with DD13. Sigh. 

[EmilyGF]

4 hours ago, OKBud said:

 

This is very interesting!! One of my kids in particular is going to have a long row to hoe with Algebra. 

The author mentions on the website that "in some ways it can be difficult to teach from this textbook" or something along those lines and mentions wanting to revise it. 

Do you have any comments on its usability? 

I haven't found it to be particularly hard to teach from. I teach her 1-on-1 for 30-40 minutes per day. We rarely get through a full lesson per day. The lessons do seem long sometimes, and with this one, I don't want to cut corners. I think it was a first foray into incorporating writing into math and some of that seems pained (I cut it out). 

I feel like it is a natural extension to teaching math first via games and then second more directly. Many ideas are first introduced in concrete or exploratory ways and then returned to later on in depth. Maybe this would be harder in a classroom? I do find myself sometimes saying, "You aren't expected to master this yet. You're being introduced to an idea and we'll come back to it later." I do feel like the book is a buffet and I need to be willing not to do everything. 

Emily

[daijobu]

On 4/11/2020 at 10:12 AM, EmilyGF said:

I'm using an Pre-Algebra/Algebra called "Algebra: Themes, Tools, Concepts" with DD11 that I found a few months ago for free - and I'm really liking it. You might like it if you like JA. All the teacher helps are available for free on this site  and I got a used copy for a few dollars. It isn't a just-the-facts curriculum; it involves problem solving and exploration as well as some interesting rabbit trails like number theory and ciphers. I skip all the essay-type questions because they feel like busy work to me, but the core is really solid. The teacher helps page includes a PDF of various routes one could take through the book depending on the level of the student.

When it came out, it was a really controversial book. If you think Dolciani is the be-all-and-end-all, you won't like it. But, for us, knowing that my daughter would enjoy the exploration and hands-on sides of it, it was worth a try and it is working well. My only regret is that I didn't find this in time to use with DD13. Sigh. 

 

That's so interesting because I followed your link out of curiosity, and I am surprised to see it was authored by Henri Picciotto.  I attended a fun math workshop he led a couple of years ago.  I am surprised I never knew he authored a textbook, or that it was approved for use in a public school district!  

[silver]

On 4/11/2020 at 12:12 PM, EmilyGF said:

I really liked AOPS for my oldest, but it hasn't clicked with DD13 (despite trying) and I KNEW it wouldn't work for DD11. 

I'm using an Pre-Algebra/Algebra called "Algebra: Themes, Tools, Concepts" with DD11 that I found a few months ago for free - and I'm really liking it. You might like it if you like JA. All the teacher helps are available for free on this site  and I got a used copy for a few dollars. It isn't a just-the-facts curriculum; it involves problem solving and exploration as well as some interesting rabbit trails like number theory and ciphers. I skip all the essay-type questions because they feel like busy work to me, but the core is really solid. The teacher helps page includes a PDF of various routes one could take through the book depending on the level of the student.

When it came out, it was a really controversial book. If you think Dolciani is the be-all-and-end-all, you won't like it. But, for us, knowing that my daughter would enjoy the exploration and hands-on sides of it, it was worth a try and it is working well. My only regret is that I didn't find this in time to use with DD13. Sigh. 

 

Would this text do a good job of shoring up things like fractions, exponents, ratios, etc. before moving on to a traditional algebra?

[EmilyGF]

On 4/13/2020 at 8:38 AM, silver said:

 

Would this text do a good job of shoring up things like fractions, exponents, ratios, etc. before moving on to a traditional algebra?

The book is not a drill book. It helps students become fluent with operations by working through interesting problems. It would not fill the bill as a quick way to shore up operations before moving on to a traditional algebra book.

[silver]

14 hours ago, EmilyGF said:

The book is not a drill book. It helps students become fluent with operations by working through interesting problems. It would not fill the bill as a quick way to shore up operations before moving on to a traditional algebra book.

Maybe I didn't ask my question correctly. My kid knows exponents and fractions. She doesn't like them and thinks she's bad at them (she's not). I'm looking for a pre-algebra that will give interesting problems (we're coming from Beast Academy) and let her gain confidence in those areas, before moving on to Algebra. She would wilt if given a drill book. But approaching it from a different perspective in the explanation/teaching and having interesting problems would interest her. I guess I'm more asking if it has problems that cover those topics.

Edited April 15, 2020 by silver

[EmilyGF]

20 hours ago, silver said:

Maybe I didn't ask my question correctly. My kid knows exponents and fractions. She doesn't like them and thinks she's bad at them (she's not). I'm looking for a pre-algebra that will give interesting problems (we're coming from Beast Academy) and let her gain confidence in those areas, before moving on to Algebra. She would wilt if given a drill book. But approaching it from a different perspective in the explanation/teaching and having interesting problems would interest her. I guess I'm more asking if it has problems that cover those topics.

The whole book is available for free on the website I linked. I suggest you look at it to see if it fits the bill 'cause I'm not sure exactly. Finding the right fit can be tricky! 🙂

Edited April 16, 2020 by EmilyGF