Teaching a 1st and 3rd grader - what are you doing?

[StaceyinLA]

I'm about to take over a lot of the teaching of my middle daughter's kids. She has a 4yo on the spectrum who is starting therapy, and is expecting a baby in a few months. They are moving into a house on our property that we just renovated for them (she is also going to be a single mom), so I told her I would basically take over the main part of their school, and just "assign" work to them on days I can't teach them. She will still be participating by doing extra curricular things, their read-alouds they do at night, etc., but I'm gonna be in charge.

Right now the 3rd grader is doing R&S for math/grammar, but I'm gonna switch him to TT and do their online program. I think R&S is dragging a little, but now I'm a bit uneasy about moving him to just any curriculum. I know TT will have a lot of review and he had no issues with the placement test for the 3rd grade.

The 1st grader is reading, but still needs a lot more practice and maybe a bit more in the way of phonics instruction - not quite sure what to do with her for that.

I'd love to combine them for some other stuff, but just want some ideas. They love all things science/geography/history, so I want to do those things, but looking for good ideas.

Thanks for suggestions!

[wendyroo]

My first grader (and my 3rd and 5th graders) read to me for a few minutes every day from Wise Owl Polysyllables to make sure that their advanced phonics is solid.

Otherwise, my first grader does math, literature, Writing with Ease, All About Spelling, Grammar Land, Spanish, Mr. Q Science (supplemented by lots of books and documentaries), Story of the World, online typing, online piano lessons, art, poetry, music appreciation, and a year-long, homegrown study of cultural geography.

My 3rd grader does math, literature, Writing with Ease, All About Spelling, Daily Grams, Spanish, Mr. Q Science (supplemented by lots of books and documentaries), Story of the World, online typing, online piano lessons, art, poetry, music appreciation, and the same year-long, homegrown study of cultural geography.

My kids are 4, 6, 8 and 10 (pre-K, 1st, 3rd, and 5th).  We do Spanish, science, history, art, poetry, music appreciation and cultural geography together.  We also listen to audio books together - that is in additional to the literature books they are each reading individually.

Wendy 

[hollyhock2]

I would keep it simple. Combine them for science and history - do something like SOTW or a beginning American history book, for science maybe an Apologia book like astronomy that you can read to them both. R&S English and TT are great for the third grader, you'll want some type of math and phonics for the first grader. I use MM 1 and Spectrum phonics with mine and she reads to me for practice from Pathway readers. If the first grader is still learning to read, you'll want a reading program. I would do WWE with both since it's nice and simple. Do you need spelling for the third grader? R&S is easy to use. 

[Melissa in Australia]

this is what my 1st grade 8 year old twins are doing - note they are in 1st grade because of their disabilities and repeating preschool. also note that the school year here in Aus ends in December

morning schoolwork - takes about 2 1/2 to 3 hours

Reading / phonics - A combination of All About Reading and Fitzroy readers, plus once a week a page of Jolly phonics workbook, and LEM. they also do reading eggs 3 times a week

Spelling -All About Spelling 1

 Language - Critical Thinking Language book, plus Critical Thinking Phonics Book, Plus First Language Lessons -  we don't do all of these in a singe day 

Writing WIth Ease, Plus Narration ( because their writing skills are very delayed, they do the narrating and I write it down, they draw a picture - we are reading abridged classics for this) , Plus Penmanship, Plus some copywork  - We do all of these every day

Math - Saxon  1, plus something I call fun math, which is a collection of math books including Critical thinking math and some others that are below their level. I have assembled it into booklets about 25 pages long. It reinforces things learned. we also do calendar geoboard work and skipcounting daily. they also do reading Eggs Mango 5 times a week

 

Afternoon schoolwork - takes about 1  to 1 1/2 hours

we only do afternoon schoolwork 3 times a week this year.

one day History - SOTW

 2 days Science - making lap-books, plus a display table of what we have learned.  This year we have covered mammals, reptiles, insects, amphibians, and are now doing the human body

Play either a numeracy or literacy game

 extra reader

 

 

[LauraClark]

We're doing some extra stuff, but the core of our schooling is:

3rd: Reading: reading a book together (I chose the book based on several lists found online).  Grammer: FLL 3.  Writing: Writing Strands 3, also learning cursive.  Spelling: dictation day by day.  Math: R&S.  

1st: Reading: OPGtTR and some kind of easy reader.  Grammer: FLL 1.  Spelling: helps reinforce phonics for us, I just choose a page from OPGtTR, use words from there, and do the standard pretest/practice/test each week.  Math: R&S.  I don't do any extra writing, just whatever comes up in FLL and spelling.

I know what you mean about R&S dragging a little-if you stick with it I wouldn't be afraid of skipping lessons here and there.  I also only sign a fraction of the problems, especially if they are getting it no problem.

Together: Read the Bible, History: SOTW (you could make that as simple and quick as you want-just read the text and ask some review questions), Science: Berean Builders Science in the Beginning (you could make that one quite simple too-sometimes we skip the experiment and just talk about what would happen).  Geography: we learn a country a week (right now we're going through Europe.  I just show them where it is on the map, review each day, and then they color it in on their map at the end of the week.)

[HomeAgain]

How many days a week/how long each day will you be working with them?

If you're working with them 3 days each week, I wouldn't move the 3rd grader to TT.  If you're with them for an hour and a half, I would do more intensive math on the days you're together and Prodigy on the days you're not.
Same with language arts.  Schedule something intensive for your together time, something non-intensive when you're not.

I'd do Mystery Science together, too.  It's easy to set up and get it going and keep the kids together.

[StaceyinLA]

On 11/1/2019 at 3:41 PM, hollyhock2 said:

I would keep it simple. Combine them for science and history - do something like SOTW or a beginning American history book, for science maybe an Apologia book like astronomy that you can read to them both. R&S English and TT are great for the third grader, you'll want some type of math and phonics for the first grader. I use MM 1 and Spectrum phonics with mine and she reads to me for practice from Pathway readers. If the first grader is still learning to read, you'll want a reading program. I would do WWE with both since it's nice and simple. Do you need spelling for the third grader? R&S is easy to use. 

 

The third grader actually uses R&S Spelling. He does great with it.

The first grader will need more phonics/reading instruction. She isn’t fully reading, and hasn’t done as much real phonics as her brother, so she does a lot of guessing at words. She’s very ready and eager though, so I want to take advantage. I know she’ll catch on quick. She knows basic phonics, but hasn’t covered all the blends and things like that.

[StaceyinLA]

On 11/1/2019 at 3:41 PM, hollyhock2 said:

I would keep it simple. Combine them for science and history - do something like SOTW or a beginning American history book, for science maybe an Apologia book like astronomy that you can read to them both. R&S English and TT are great for the third grader, you'll want some type of math and phonics for the first grader. I use MM 1 and Spectrum phonics with mine and she reads to me for practice from Pathway readers. If the first grader is still learning to read, you'll want a reading program. I would do WWE with both since it's nice and simple. Do you need spelling for the third grader? R&S is easy to use. 

 

I actually have the SOTW AND Apologia Astronomy, so that’s easy enough!

What’s MM1? And OMG my kids used Pathway Readers - she’d probably love those!

What’s WWE? I’m a granny so I’m out of the loop!

[StaceyinLA]

On 11/2/2019 at 6:04 AM, HomeAgain said:

How many days a week/how long each day will you be working with them?

If you're working with them 3 days each week, I wouldn't move the 3rd grader to TT.  If you're with them for an hour and a half, I would do more intensive math on the days you're together and Prodigy on the days you're not.
Same with language arts.  Schedule something intensive for your together time, something non-intensive when you're not.

I'd do Mystery Science together, too.  It's easy to set up and get it going and keep the kids together.

 

At least 3-4 days/week and for at least a couple hours - maybe more, plus any reading (like history/geog/science stuff) can be done with their mom too if we don’t finish it in the mornings. 

Why wouldn’t you switch to TT? Just curious. He’d definitely be doing math 5 days/week even if we didn’t do a longer school day.

[HomeAgain]

1 minute ago, StaceyinLA said:

 

 

Why wouldn’t you switch to TT? Just curious. He’d definitely be doing math 5 days/week even if we didn’t do a longer school day.

I don't like computer based programs for younger kids as a rule, and TT is easier to game than others.  It's not individual-responsive, it's a computer based textbook.

With small kids I like to be able to gauge exactly what is going wrong.  Like, I'm tutoring an 8yo right now that can calculate just fine, but understanding how math is applied and how to manipulate numbers is a big struggle.  I was engaged to tutor his twin first who is slower at calculations but turns out, understands number relationships much better than his brother and is much quicker at knowing what to do in word problems or real life situations.  For both of them going through a program it would look like the first grasped it all until suddenly, he doesn't, while it would look like the second struggles intensely.   TT would give me a false read because it takes the parent out of the teaching and doesn't expect the student to be able to narrate what they're doing if asked.
I'd want to make sure a kid is getting direct instruction 3x a week rather than a program 5x a week.

[Syllieann]

MM1 is math mammoth.  It's cheap, easy to use, very conceptual, and has great problem-solving integration.  Unlike the other popular conceptual/Asian style programs, it provides lots of practice without supplemental books. The drawback for first graders is that the print is kind of cramped.  Two of my kids were fine with the print layout, but one found it too overwhelming.  It is also mastery.  We work out of multiple chapters at a time to provide more variety with better spacing and interleaving.

WWE is writing with ease.  It alternates narration and copywork.  It would be a great choice because you could double up on days you're together, doing both narration and copywork.

For phonics, does Mom own other levels of AAS?  You could use that to shore up phonics.  Otherwise, maybe ordinary parents guide to reading would be a good choice.

 

Oh, and my first and third graders are combined in Home Art Studio, which I love.  They also listen to Classics for Kids together.  Each works on Hoffman Academy separately for piano.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Syllieann

[hollyhock2]

2 hours ago, StaceyinLA said:

 

I actually have the SOTW AND Apologia Astronomy, so that’s easy enough!

What’s MM1? And OMG my kids used Pathway Readers - she’d probably love those!

What’s WWE? I’m a granny so I’m out of the loop!

Syllieann is right - Math Mammoth and Writing With Ease. Yes, my kids also love Pathway Readers.

[StaceyinLA]

22 hours ago, Syllieann said:

MM1 is math mammoth.  It's cheap, easy to use, very conceptual, and has great problem-solving integration.  Unlike the other popular conceptual/Asian style programs, it provides lots of practice without supplemental books. The drawback for first graders is that the print is kind of cramped.  Two of my kids were fine with the print layout, but one found it too overwhelming.  It is also mastery.  We work out of multiple chapters at a time to provide more variety with better spacing and interleaving.

WWE is writing with ease.  It alternates narration and copywork.  It would be a great choice because you could double up on days you're together, doing both narration and copywork.

For phonics, does Mom own other levels of AAS?  You could use that to shore up phonics.  Otherwise, maybe ordinary parents guide to reading would be a good choice.

 

Oh, and my first and third graders are combined in Home Art Studio, which I love.  They also listen to Classics for Kids together.  Each works on Hoffman Academy separately for piano.

 

Okay thanks! I thought I figured out WWE based on other comments, but couldn’t figure out MM, although now I remember having seen it mentioned in other threads.

We don’t have any AAS at all. My grandson uses R&S spelling.

Interested in the piano instruction. They actually have a piano, and dd would love for them to learn to play, but lessons aren’t in the budget at the moment.

[StaceyinLA]

23 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

I don't like computer based programs for younger kids as a rule, and TT is easier to game than others.  It's not individual-responsive, it's a computer based textbook.

With small kids I like to be able to gauge exactly what is going wrong.  Like, I'm tutoring an 8yo right now that can calculate just fine, but understanding how math is applied and how to manipulate numbers is a big struggle.  I was engaged to tutor his twin first who is slower at calculations but turns out, understands number relationships much better than his brother and is much quicker at knowing what to do in word problems or real life situations.  For both of them going through a program it would look like the first grasped it all until suddenly, he doesn't, while it would look like the second struggles intensely.   TT would give me a false read because it takes the parent out of the teaching and doesn't expect the student to be able to narrate what they're doing if asked.
I'd want to make sure a kid is getting direct instruction 3x a week rather than a program 5x a week.

 

Thanks for that. We have used TT in the past with older grades, and really liked it. The main reason we have been considering it is it’s likely he’ll use it later, and we figured why not just move him into it and let him just stick with it. 

Honestly, dgs started out great with math, but I do feel like he is struggling a bit with grasping things like borrowing. I’m not sure I’m great at explaining things. I guess I just want to be sure he is getting a good, thorough explanation of WHY, and I feel like TT will at least be doing that for him in the lesson. Maybe I’m wrong in that assumption.

[Syllieann]

2 hours ago, StaceyinLA said:

 

Thanks for that. We have used TT in the past with older grades, and really liked it. The main reason we have been considering it is it’s likely he’ll use it later, and we figured why not just move him into it and let him just stick with it. 

Honestly, dgs started out great with math, but I do feel like he is struggling a bit with grasping things like borrowing. I’m not sure I’m great at explaining things. I guess I just want to be sure he is getting a good, thorough explanation of WHY, and I feel like TT will at least be doing that for him in the lesson. Maybe I’m wrong in that assumption.

It sounds like math u see might be a good fit.  It provides a conceptual understanding with manipulatives and has DVD instruction that you can either watch together or you can watch it to learn how to teach it and then present it to the student yourself.

[Ellie]

6 hours ago, StaceyinLA said:

 

Thanks for that. We have used TT in the past with older grades, and really liked it. The main reason we have been considering it is it’s likely he’ll use it later, and we figured why not just move him into it and let him just stick with it. 

Honestly, dgs started out great with math, but I do feel like he is struggling a bit with grasping things like borrowing. I’m not sure I’m great at explaining things. I guess I just want to be sure he is getting a good, thorough explanation of WHY, and I feel like TT will at least be doing that for him in the lesson. Maybe I’m wrong in that assumption.

Are you (or whoever has been teaching) doing the oral instruction with R&S's math? Because although its scope and sequence may seem not to be as, IDK, progressive as some other publishers, by fourth grade it is right on. But the oral class time is mandatory for the first three years. There is no actual instruction in the student text; it all happens in the oral class time, with the text providing practice.

I'm sure you know that my first recommendation for phonics/spelling/etc. would be Spalding. 🙂 But Phonics Pathways is pretty good--no penmanship or other writing, so you'd have to add that. Although some children might glean enough just from reading that they can overcome a lack of good phonics instruction, most children will really benefit from the phonics. The Pathway readers, when used as intended, have a sight-reading component: there is instruction first, via the workbooks, where the children learn to recognize/read new words; then they do the assigned reading; then they do the workbook, which asks comprehension questions and whatnot. If you do a good phonics method with the dc, they don't need to use vocabulary-controlled basal readers (although of course they might enjoy reading them); they can read books from the library, which are more interesting and challenging.

[StaceyinLA]

17 hours ago, Ellie said:

Are you (or whoever has been teaching) doing the oral instruction with R&S's math? Because although its scope and sequence may seem not to be as, IDK, progressive as some other publishers, by fourth grade it is right on. But the oral class time is mandatory for the first three years. There is no actual instruction in the student text; it all happens in the oral class time, with the text providing practice.

I'm sure you know that my first recommendation for phonics/spelling/etc. would be Spalding. 🙂 But Phonics Pathways is pretty good--no penmanship or other writing, so you'd have to add that. Although some children might glean enough just from reading that they can overcome a lack of good phonics instruction, most children will really benefit from the phonics. The Pathway readers, when used as intended, have a sight-reading component: there is instruction first, via the workbooks, where the children learn to recognize/read new words; then they do the assigned reading; then they do the workbook, which asks comprehension questions and whatnot. If you do a good phonics method with the dc, they don't need to use vocabulary-controlled basal readers (although of course they might enjoy reading them); they can read books from the library, which are more interesting and challenging.

 

Honestly, I’m not really sure if my daughter has used the TM as much as intended. I’ll take a look at it and see. I’d probably prefer something more suited to home schooling, but I’m not opposed to continuing with R&S if I can make it work.

She does have Phonics Pathways - the thing is my dgd is SO ready to be reading, I think it sort of bores her. I’d love to do something that is a bit more fun and incorporates reading right away.

[Ellie]

3 hours ago, StaceyinLA said:

 

Honestly, I’m not really sure if my daughter has used the TM as much as intended. I’ll take a look at it and see. I’d probably prefer something more suited to home schooling, but I’m not opposed to continuing with R&S if I can make it work.

She does have Phonics Pathways - the thing is my dgd is SO ready to be reading, I think it sort of bores her. I’d love to do something that is a bit more fun and incorporates reading right away.

Many people don't use the oral class time. 🙂 But truly, it's necessary. Beginning with the fourth-grade text, everything the children need to know is right there in the student text, but it isn't so with the first three grades. I think it's as suited to hsing as any other product, though. The oral class time takes about 10 minutes, and then the dc have their seatwork. Many hsers (not saying this is you, just saying it is so) like materials that they can hand off to their dc to do alone, or to watch a video. I think that one-on-one instruction is valuable...although I feel differently about materials which require 20 minutes, or more, of direct instruction, lol. I like the combination of 10 minutes or so of teaching, then the child working independently.

You said you thought your dd needed more phonics; practice alone without sufficient instruction won't work for all children. How far along is she in Phonics Pathways? And there's no reason that she can't pick up books on her own and work her way through them. Do y'all go to the library regularly? Or perhaps she would do better with something like Spalding.

[StaceyinLA]

I don't think my granddaughter has done much of the PP at all. My grandson used it, so I know my dd has it. Dgd is a bit different in her learning style for sure. She's definitely more of a guesser with her reading. She wants to just jump the gun and be able to read everything without learning all the basics that dgs was just fine with. She reads a good bit, but because she doesn't know her phonics blends and stuff, she will guess at a lot of bigger words. I just want to do more phonics instruction. She could probably fly through a good bit of the PP - I'll have to sit with her one day and she where it is in the book she starts to get stumped, and just start from there.

I don't mind at all doing the oral work with dgs for the math. I'm sure it'll help me teach it to him more on his level. I have no issues with instruction time, but I guess math is the one thing I've just always felt could be explained better by someone else. I don't tend to explain things well if they are simple. I am always assuming understanding I guess. It's certainly something I can, and will, do.

I think one of the other reasons we considered moving to TT for 3rd grade is because I think R&S changes at that level. I haven't ordered his 3rd grade math (I need to though - he's just being doing some work in a Horizons workbook til I get his 3rd grade book), but I think it goes to a hard text vs a workbook, so we thought it would be a good time to switch if we were going to. After this thread though, I'm torn.

Edited November 5, 2019 by StaceyinLA