Literature suggestions needed

[lizlatorre]

I need some suggestions for my DS16 who is in ninth grade, but reads at about a 4-6th grade level. He has mixed receptive and expressive language disorder.  We did a couple memoirs for young readers that went well.  We then started The Bronze Bow and it is just not working for him.  It doesn't have to be 100% age appropriate, but he doesn't want little kid stuff.  Any titles of novels or curriculum used with struggling old reader with success would be much appreciated.  It doesn't have to be something he can do 100% independently, just not so tough that we are struggling over the meaning of every sentence.   

[lewelma]

Dealing with Dragons is a fabulous book and series, and listed as reading level 4-6th grade. My ds is 16 and a great reader and still rereads it every Christmas.  Not babyish at all.  

https://www.dogobooks.com/dealing-with-dragons-the-enchanted-forest-chronicles-book-one/book-review/0152229000

[PeterPan]

This is the only way I seem to win at finding books these days, sigh. https://hub.lexile.com/find-a-book/search Lexile accounts for syntactic complexity, so it's controlling the language. Find the lexile levels for books he's already reading successfully at the desired level of support and see where they're falling. They may be a bit all over the place, but maybe there will be some trends. There will also be books marked for HL=high low, so high interest, low lexile. It's a box you can check in the search engine. 

So the other challenge with wanting to use historical fiction, like the Bronze Bow, which is lexile 760 btw https://fab.lexile.com/book/details/9780547488912/  Is that it requires following the narrative. So reading comprehension has multiple components, sigh. I'll link a file here. So narrative language, prior knowledge, syntax/language, multiple things are coming in to play and we're having to control for them or bring those skills up.

In other words, you might be able to do the same topic with non-fiction and get more success. Or do it with nonfiction and then do a movie. But to do history with fiction, that requires so so many things to be happening. With the lexile search engine you could narrow it down to books on a particular history topic at a more comfortable lexile, yes. You can limit it to award winning authors and maybe find some new authors that work for him. You'll just have to play around with it. Maybe try limiting it to 450-600 and see what happens. Or maybe 350-550, whatever seems to be working. 

https://msreads.org/files/2014/09/Reading-Universe-Grid-August-2017-Sheet1.pdf

[PeterPan]

20 hours ago, lizlatorre said:

Any titles of novels or curriculum used with struggling old reader

Ok, so I thought maybe you wanted that Bronze Bow to go with your history. If you just want books or something to read, a couple other suggestions.

-periodicals--Then they can be on high interest topics, things he has more prior knowledge on, boosting comprehension and engagement.

-SHORT things--comics,                                             Uncle John's New & Improved Funniest Ever                                       bathroom readers, Readers Digest magazine or the old Reader's Digest condensed books, anything with SHORT stories, short articles. It's just what I notice with the people around me with reading disabilities, that they tend to like short. 

-Poetry-again, it's short. Look for men poets possibly, people speaking to things he's feeling. I have known some men with reading disabilities who really liked poetry! Christmas poetry, family life poetry, older stuff possibly. Edgar Guest is older but might resonate on men, family life, feelings. And for holiday poetry, collections like                                             A Christmas Treasury of Yuletide Stories and Poems                                       

Have you tried taking him to a book store to see what he might find that he hadn't expected he would like? People grow and change, so maybe a trip would be in order. I will tell you that my ds doesn't *see* himself as a reader, therefore he doesn't do what readers do, kwim? Readers are always looking for their next read. Readers know what they like and what works for them. Book Whisperer I think talks about this, the idea of how can we help them see themselves as readers. What does it mean for a person with disabilities to be a reader? What do people with disabilities of his mix tend to like to read? Not just topics but genres, features, etc. 

                                            The Grasshopper Trap                                       I'm not sure the lexile on McManus, but his works are short and often published in magazines and very outdoorsy, funny. 

I just find, in my small experience, that people with reading disabilities and comprehension issues who see themselves as readers have figured out what they can connect with, what the features are. They end up with kind of eclectic, odd taste because they're reading what works for them. I'm not saying we can win or make it happen, but just for the people where it has happened that's what I notice.

[PeterPan]

https://fab.lexile.com/book/details/9780805021073/  Ha, here's a McManus book and it's clocking in at 920 lexile. But with the stories so short, you never know, kwim? 

Is he registered with BARD/NLS? It might be a good idea to get that going. He'd get access to more things and maybe for the things that he would enjoy that he's not ready to eye read he could ear read. Sometimes comprehension goes up a bit when someone else is reading. Sometimes it's just enough that he's comprehending as much as he wants. If it's just for pleasure, ear reading something at that higher lexile might be a good option.

I just checked, and BARD does have the McManus books, yes. So if my ds is independently reading at say lexile 600 (pick a number), I'd be happy to throw him a book from BARD at 1000L and see what happens, kwim? 

Ds ear read the Michael Vey books recently via BARD. They're marked HL in the lexile, so high interest, low lexile. I'm not sure how many of those there are, but they're out there, yes. Also OCALI has some of the books you can do as read alongs with a cd that inserts into the computer and highlights the text. Those are definitely HL.

Edited October 31, 2019 by PeterPan

[lizlatorre]

Thanks for all the detailed info.  Up to this point I had not done searches based on lexile range - I just kind of knew what would work.  But it is probably time to be more strategic in my choosing.  Thanks for all the leads and suggestions.  Hope all is well in your corner of Ohio!

[lewelma]

I did not read until I was 12, and throughout highschool I only read the cliff notes for any assigned novels because I could not read them. PeterPan made me think about how I have created my own reading approach over these many years. 

1) I still struggle to read novels because they are long and linear and my mind jumps to wanting an answer that is not available until the next chapter. I struggle to put these question out of my mind for many many pages until it is answered. And an even bigger problem is that these questions are not even answered in a way that I can find, and I never know when the answer is coming up.  For these reasons, I don't read novels, and if I do, I read them out of order and keep notes on the characters and actions.

2) Because I struggle with a linear argument, I also don't like creative nonfiction or literary nonfiction (I'm thinking about Guns, Germs, and Steel). They are too long and make me wait for answers. Because of this, I like reading nonfiction that has little headers all over the page - these can be textbooks but can also be trade books like DK Oceans. I also like books that have clear cut short chapters that can be read independently, so right now I am reading the 48 Power Laws.  Each law of how people manipulate you is about 4 pages long.  And there are subheaders within the 4 pages. I am also currently working through a collection of essays, each about 4 pages, and I like magazines like the Economist and National Geographic. All of these genre are short, one idea, nonfiction texts with headers. That is my go to.

3) I struggle to read without also engaging. Basically I must read and write together. So I write all over my books, little notes in the margins, or ideas or questions.  I also look up questions on the internet as I have them so that I can keep reading.  Then, I often write basically a response paper in my journal when I am reading about education or power (like the book above) or some other topic that is particularly relevant to me. 

4) When I am really in need of relaxing, I write. Writing is about my ideas ordered in my own way. Reading is about trying to conform my brain to someone else's wishes, which is much much harder. 

So I think PeterPan is right. Those of us who have struggled with reading find things that we *can* read, and sometimes they look like an odd collection. 

[lizlatorre]

Thank-you, lewelma, for your perspective,  that is very helpful.  I am a very strong reader, mathematical and visual spatial are my weak areas, so as my ds has gotten older, curriculum has been challenging as he and I are polar opposites in terms of learning styles, strengths, weaknesses, etc.  You and PeterPan have given me a lot to think about.  He doesn't hate reading anymore, but he is very easily discouraged by it so I am very motivated to keep him on a success-oriented track with it.

[PeterPan]

Just as follow-up, I'll tell you I downloaded Grasshopper Trap (McManus) tonight for ds and he's in there laughing up a storm...

[Pen]

Might he be able to read something like 

A wrinkle in Time  series

Harry Potter series

or 

Brotherband  and or Rangers Apprentice  series

or Prydain Chronicles series?

 

any of these if it could hook him, could increase the amount of reading he would do and maybe help him get better at it

 

All of them have some Coming of Age type themes (as well as good vs evil etc), “finding oneself “ which could be relevant to age 16. 

or 

 

[lizlatorre]

I had forgotten about the Prydain series.  Those are definitely worth a look.  He's done Harry Potter.  Not familiar with Brotherband and Ranger's Apprentice.  I'll check those out.  Thanks!

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, lizlatorre said:

He's done Harry Potter.

Just for your trivia, one of the HP books is 500L and the others are clocking in at 880 and 940. 

My ds is really enjoying the McManus books! BARD had a scad of them on audio, so he's been going to bed with them. Slight problem that they're 6 hours on audio, lol.

[lizlatorre]

Yes, there is a big difference in the reading level in the first Harry Potter and the remainder of the series.  Without the movies and audiobooks, we would not have gotten through them.  McManus is on my list of things to try!

[PeterPan]

Just now, lizlatorre said:

Yes, there is a big difference in the reading level in the first Harry Potter and the remainder of the series.  Without the movies and audiobooks, we would not have gotten through them.  McManus is on my list of things to try!

I forget, but the McManus may have been even higher than the HP books for lexile. Might be one to do on audio. Ds laughs and thinks they're a hoot. 

Do you have the option to get paper trail for BARD? If he's diagnosed with dyslexia, SLD Reading, some kind of print disability, you might want to do it. It's free, and the access is amazing. We use them CONSTANTLY. It's not necessarily your textbooks, but it's everything else, and usually professional recordings, not tts.

[lizlatorre]

I have to pull up his IEP.  His primary dx is mixed language disorder.  I can't remember how they ID him, as I never use it for anything,but I think they have a reading related dx on there.  BARD is on my list of things to check out for him as he does enjoy audiobooks.  Hubby is working 80 hours this week and next, so I am moving SLOWLY!!!  

[PeterPan]

11 hours ago, lizlatorre said:

a reading related dx

Yes, see what is in the fine print. Our ped wasn't really picky. I said it, handed him a paper, and he's like fine yeah after a glance. 

The reason it's valid and worth pursuing is you might find a gap where he's comprehending well with eye/print reading at a certain lexile and understanding at a HIGHER lexile when it's audio. 

11 hours ago, lizlatorre said:

Hubby is working 80 hours this week and next

Oh my!!!!!  

[Storygirl]

DS15's independent Lexile level (485) also puts him right around the fourth grade reading level. This has been a distinct challenge, because the content and characters and story lines that will interest him are found in books that are around the 700-800 Lexile level. He is in public school, so I don't get to pick his reading selections. His class is going to read The Maze Runner (Lexile 770) and The Hunger Games (810). Some years, in this 9th grade class, they will read Ender's Game (780) instead.

In previous years, he read and enjoyed (as much as he enjoys any book) Maniac Magee (820) and The Outsiders (750) and Percy Jackson -- The Lightning Thief (650). He has not yet read Among the Hidden (800), but I think it's one he could try.

I'll be honest and say that I would consider those books more along the lines of pleasure reading, rather than high school classwork, in an ideal world. But when you have a kid who needs to be hooked into reading, because reading is hard, picking things like this that have high interest is a valid way to go.

DS needs support with books at this middle school level. That means reading them aloud. Learning new vocabulary. Discussing character development and motivation. Making sure he is following plot changes, such as flashbacks. Asking comprehension questions when discussing, and asking him to find evidence in the text that shows the answer. He cannot pick up books at the 700-800 Lexile level and read them alone, but he can get through some things at that level, with help.

So, depending on the amount of time that you have to spend with him, I think you could pick some things at this level. The books that Pen suggested seem to be in the 700-800 level (I didn't check them all). If you are hoping for him to read independently, I think you will need to drop the Lexile level to around 500.

We've found that this fourth grade level is where the divide happens. The divide between books that DS can read on his own, and those that he can only read with support. And it makes sense, because that is the age where typical kids switch away from easier chapter books with simpler characterization and plot lines, and begin reading novels with more complex themes, characters, and plots. That jump up in complexity, which is developmentally appropriate for typical kids, can be a roadblock for those who struggle with comprehension. The trouble is that it's hard to find qualify fiction that will appeal to teens that is written at a fourth or fifth grade level.

My DS is benefiting from exposure to the books at the higher Lexile level at school. When I had him read over the summer, I had to drop the reading level of his books, because he resisted the idea of reading them in tandem with me and needed things he could read and understand on his own.

This summer I tried to read A Year Down Yonder (funny!!) out loud, but DS said he couldn't follow it. It's Lexile 670, so it might work for your son.

Holes is Lexile 660. DS liked that story, and it was made into a movie. Watching the movie can be really helpful. Watching the movie BEFORE reading the book is especially helpful.

Harris and Me (very funny) is Lexile 980, which surprises me. It's a high interest book that you might try in audio version or as a readaloud.

Hatchet is 1020 Lexile, which surprises me. Because it has high interest for a boy, though, you might also try an audio version.

Nothing But the Truth by Avi features a 9th grade boy but is told in a nonstandard documentary format, so it doesn't have a Lexile number. interesting for discussion, however.

The True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle is 740.

These last few ideas are by the authors Gary Paulsen and Avi, both of whom deliberately target as an audience kids who may not be interested in reading.  You might look at other titles by them.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Storygirl

[Storygirl]

And keep in mind that nonfiction books can be fine to mix in. Also, try graphic novels. DS's class actually used the graphic novel version of Percy Jackson. And there are graphic novel versions of the first few books in the Wings of Fire series (very popular with my other son, who is 14 with no reading disability).

[Storygirl]

The Bronze Bow is Lexile 760. I agree that historical fiction can contain a lot of extra things to understand, versus realistic contemporary fiction or even fantasy or dystopian books, such as The Hunger Games. In books that are set in an imaginary future, the author knows that she has to set the scene and explain the background for all readers, so those things will be built in to the story. But for historical fiction, authors may assume the readers have background knowledge that they do not. And it can be hard to imagine what life use to be like.

 

[Pen]

17 hours ago, lizlatorre said:

I had forgotten about the Prydain series.  Those are definitely worth a look.  He's done Harry Potter.  Not familiar with Brotherband and Ranger's Apprentice.  I'll check those out.  Thanks!

 

If HP was doable (and consider a reread or two or three of HO for more fluency and automaticity at that level, plus discussion in terms of themes and so forth to look at it more as “literature”) then Brotherband and RA (by same author) are also probably series  books he can read.

 RA series follows main characters from late childhood (figuring out what they will do for job in life) through marriages and some having children of their own and the next generation child of two characters  becoming the protege of another of the original main characters.  It can thus give a lot to talk about related to “life”. 

RA takes place in a sort of past world of knights in armor, but is fantasy, not historical fiction.

   It potentially can be a segue into a shortened, easy abridged version of The Three Musketeers (which can be helped out by seeing a film version). 

Brotherband is sort of a historical play on Vikings idea—but totally historically inaccurate as to real Vikings. 

The books are longer, but I think they are a little easier to read than Prydain. 

 

 

I think Rick Riordan fits well into same level, but there’s a lot less (IMO) to talk about related to “life” or “literature”. 

 

 

Also consider BBC versions of Charles Dickens and similar books, where working on understanding story and nuance can be separated from decoding and trying to imagine a world.  

[lizlatorre]

Hatchet being 1020 blows me away.  He did that, albeit with support, two or three years ago and it wasn't terribly hard.  Harry Potter was only doable because he had such a good grasp on the basics from the movie.  Thanks for all your thoughts so far everyone - it is very, very helpful.  We are going to do some short passages, fiction and nonfiction, for a couple weeks so that I can have some time to pick the correct next “big read”.  

[Pen]

The reading program publisher we used has books in specific skill areas if that might help.  For example fluency, comprehension, visualization,  etc

https://www.highnoonbooks.com/detailHNB.tpl?action=search&cart=15729075238155478&eqskudatarq=8438-9&eqTitledatarq=High Noon Reading Strategies%3A Visualization&eqvendordatarq=ATP&bobby=[bobby]&bob=[bob]&TBL=[tbl]

43 minutes ago, lizlatorre said:

Hatchet being 1020 blows me away.  He did that, albeit with support, two or three years ago and it wasn't terribly hard.  Harry Potter was only doable because he had such a good grasp on the basics from the movie.  Thanks for all your thoughts so far everyone - it is very, very helpful.  We are going to do some short passages, fiction and nonfiction, for a couple weeks so that I can have some time to pick the correct next “big read”.  

 

Rereading books can greatly increase reading ease.  And I think it’s perfectly legitimate to have help from a movie or a parent reading most of the first book in a series out loud, or similar strategies.  

My son’s BandM school read Harris and Me as a read aloud together.   I think the same with the Great Gatsby, plus saw a movie version.

[Pen]

The Ruins of Gorlan (The Ranger's Apprentice, Book 1) https://www.amazon.com/dp/0142406635/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_SWkWDb4WKC58F

If you read volume 1 aloud and discussed it, he might well be able too go on as he’d then be more familiar with characters, setting, frequent words used...

[Pen]

Orson Scott Card Mithermage series might be another series to look at .  Has lots of magic.  A bit like HP in that regard.  Has some positive life messages.

High Noon has very short illustrated Shakespeare and other extremely condensed and modernized classics.  I didn’t use any so don’t have any idea how they are.  But it can be another way of approaching classic “literature”.

They also have a couple of low reading level US History series. 

[lizlatorre]

I'll check out all the High Noon materials.  I've heard of them, but I've never looked at them.  Thanks!

[PeterPan]

On November 4, 2019 at 5:07 PM, lizlatorre said:

Hatchet being 1020 blows me away.

Reading comprehension is 80% prior knowledge, so he may have just been more into the topic, known more of the words, had more prior knowledge about the setting, etc., making it easier to comprehend.

[lizlatorre]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Reading comprehension is 80% prior knowledge, so he may have just been more into the topic, known more of the words, had more prior knowledge about the setting, etc., making it easier to comprehend.

That is very true!  

[cbollin]

If it would help with ideas: with youngest (severe language disorder expressive and receptive, definitely "below level reading" ) we'd preview classics using the edcon guides. Then listen to audio version (with the book in front of her) to the full version of book. Can't remember if I ordered from Rainbow Resource, or from Wieser Education.  But here's link to rainbow's catalog for the product I used as preview of the plot https://www.rainbowresource.com/category/1017/EDCON-Classic-Worktexts-Bring-the-Classics-to-Life.html 

also one year we did anthology text (AGS brand) instead novels.  https://www.wiesereducational.com/products/f_reading-literature/2/