New Puppy we are considering! Need list to buy and questions! UPDATE !!! SEPT 4, May 3 - PICTURES!!!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Our Humane Shelter where we have gotten all of our rescues, microchips the animals for free.  Everyone on Nextdoor  tells anyone who has found a stray cat or dog to take it to our nearest vet to see if there is a microchip.  My cat's microchip isn't the premium one where we pay for address etc. because he's an indoor cat but if he got lost, we have a record of the number in our files and can log onto the microchip site see if it has been found by someone.  Then we just notify them that it is our animal and we can be matched with the person who has the animal.  It takes more work, but it is free and still will get us reunited with the animal.  Our dog, who is more likely to get out of the fenced yard or away from someone on the leash, has the premium service where we paid to list the address/ phone number.  We just went ahead and paid one lump sum instead of a yearly sum.  Since we did it when our dog was only a few months old, it was much cheaper to do it this way.  (BTW - in almost 30 years of animal ownership including microchips, we've never lost an animal.  But that's mostly because our dogs always make a beeline for my neighbor's house where they sit on her porch waiting for a cookie.  😉  ) 

[Pen]

Sounds like maybe the microchip would link to breeder with breeder name, address, etc ? Not to you?  If so that’s a whole other level of complication.   

I think point is that if dog ends up at a vet or animal control facility there’s a good chance of being scanned and reunited with someone.  But I don’t think even then it’s perfect— chips can migrate, and possibly there’s still some trouble with different company chips not universally readable by any scanner. 

[ktgrok]

27 minutes ago, sheryl said:

I just see what the "point" of having a microchip is (unless it's backup)

Bingo! Yes, it is a backup, not a primary means of identification. 

[Pen]

21 minutes ago, sheryl said:

I just see what the "point" of having a microchip is (unless it's backup) if it's not accessed by others for the intended (?) use of dog identification (which goes beyond name to owner's name etc to be returned home).  I asked on ND and they said pet name + 2 numbers.  

 

In times past if dog ended up in an animal control shelter without collar and if owner didn’t manage to find and claim it within some number of days/hours, it could be adopted out—or even euthanized.  Now afaik they are supposed to scan for a chip before adopting out or euthanizing.

so just that is substantial

when my dog who was abandoned adopted me, I informed local relevant entities of a found dog and description and took him to a vet to look for microchip before deciding to keep him   Trying to be sure he was really abandoned, not lost.  He was not in very good shape and seemed to think dogs eat out of garbage bins, so it was pretty certain he was either abandoned or had been lost for some time.  Some people down street have had a couple of apparently abandoned dogs become pets and I’m pretty sure they too checked on chips before considering the dog to be theirs.  

 

[Pen]

 

1 hour ago, sheryl said:

I asked on ND and they said pet name + 2 numbers.  

 

Sounds good. 

[Pawz4me]

7 hours ago, Pen said:

Sounds like maybe the microchip would link to breeder with breeder name, address, etc ? Not to you?  If so that’s a whole other level of complication.   

I think point is that if dog ends up at a vet or animal control facility there’s a good chance of being scanned and reunited with someone.  But I don’t think even then it’s perfect— chips can migrate, and possibly there’s still some trouble with different company chips not universally readable by any scanner. 

The last I talked to anyone in the know about that (which was at least a year ago),  I was told that any scanner should indicate the presence of a chip, even if it can't be read by that particular scanner. I would think that most vets would have scanners that can read all chips, but there are so many chip manufacturers now, so . . ???

@sheryl -- Do make sure that the chip can be registered to you and not the breeder if at all possible. Personally, if the one she provided has to be registered to her, I'd pay for another one that could be registered with my own info. I suspect it's just a chip and that you'll register it yourself.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

The last I talked to anyone in the know about that (which was at least a year ago),  I was told that any scanner should indicate the presence of a chip, even if it can't be read by that particular scanner. I would think that most vets would have scanners that can read all chips, but there are so many chip manufacturers now, so . . ???

@sheryl -- Do make sure that the chip can be registered to you and not the breeder if at all possible. Personally, if the one she provided has to be registered to her, I'd pay for another one that could be registered with my own info. I suspect it's just a chip and that you'll register it yourself.

Our Humane Society registers the chip to them but gives you the code so that you can change the information to your own address etc. I assume that they do it that way because some people don’t follow through and it’s safer for the animal to have at least the Humane Society’s address attached to it. 

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Our Humane Society registers the chip to them but gives you the code so that you can change the information to your own address etc. I assume that they do it that way because some people don’t follow through and it’s safer for the animal to have at least the Humane Society’s address attached to it. 

And I think that's a wise move for a rescue organization or a municipal shelter. But a breeder . . . I'm not so sure about it. Breeders move and die and lose records. They go on vacations and travel all over to dog shows/competitions and are subject to a host of other possibilities that could make it difficult or impossible to contact them quickly. I'd want to make sure any dog of mine was going to be easily traceable back to me, but especially so with a dog from a breeder versus a shelter or rescue group.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Pawz4me

[sheryl]

10 hours ago, Pen said:

Sounds like maybe the microchip would link to breeder with breeder name, address, etc ? Not to you?  If so that’s a whole other level of complication.   

I think point is that if dog ends up at a vet or animal control facility there’s a good chance of being scanned and reunited with someone.  But I don’t think even then it’s perfect— chips can migrate, and possibly there’s still some trouble with different company chips not universally readable by any scanner. 

Oh dear, that's a good point! Still, we'll do it. Very good point (migration, poor reader, etc).  Hmm.  That the other thing - our breeder said she and we will be linked on the microchip.  I don't like that.  But, we signed off on the papers.  Why didn't she say this up front and NOT on the day we picked up puppy!

[sheryl]

11 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

I guess I look at my dog’s microchip like I look at my kids’ car seats.  In 12 years, I must have spent over a thousand dollars on car seats, and the only feature I have actually benefited from is the cup holder.  And having the car seats doesn’t make me less vigilant  about choosing who drives my kids, only driving sober, following traffic laws etc .  . .

Similarly I have layers of protection on my dog.  The first layer, a fence, a leash, and a solid recall has failed twice.  My cell on his collar is the first back up.  But that could fail too.  So he also has a microchip.  Hopefully it will go untested like those car seats.

Still, we just do what we should do.  I hear you.  I sure hope for all that one of these techniques would help benefit all human and furry babies.  I hope no one ever has to use one though!   

[sheryl]

11 hours ago, Pen said:

 

In times past if dog ended up in an animal control shelter without collar and if owner didn’t manage to find and claim it within some number of days/hours, it could be adopted out—or even euthanized.  Now afaik they are supposed to scan for a chip before adopting out or euthanizing.

so just that is substantial

when my dog who was abandoned adopted me, I informed local relevant entities of a found dog and description and took him to a vet to look for microchip before deciding to keep him   Trying to be sure he was really abandoned, not lost.  He was not in very good shape and seemed to think dogs eat out of garbage bins, so it was pretty certain he was either abandoned or had been lost for some time.  Some people down street have had a couple of apparently abandoned dogs become pets and I’m pretty sure they too checked on chips before considering the dog to be theirs.  

 

THANKS, PEN! 

[sheryl]

Pawz, as I stated in another reply the breeder stated that the microchip should read her name and ours. I DON'T LIKE THAT.  I FEEL LIKE WE ARE BORROWING THE DOG AND SHE'S NOT REALLY OURS BUT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A CHOICE!  I wish I could change it to just our name as Jean mentioned something similarly.  

[Pen]

2 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Pawz, as I stated in another reply the breeder stated that the microchip should read her name and ours. I DON'T LIKE THAT.  I FEEL LIKE WE ARE BORROWING THE DOG AND SHE'S NOT REALLY OURS BUT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A CHOICE!  I wish I could change it to just our name as Jean mentioned something similarly.  

 

Can you talk to the chip company before chip gets installed?

 

[sheryl]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

Can you talk to the chip company before chip gets installed?

 

Sounds good to me.  Vet too?

[Pawz4me]

I don't think it's a bad thing at all if the chip is registered in both the breeder's name AND your name. Good breeders often do that as a backup. But if it were my dog I'd want my name to be the primary contact, and I would want to have complete control of the registration account with the chip company.

If you don't want the breeder's name -- just have the vet insert a different chip. The vet will have them.

[Pen]

1 hour ago, sheryl said:

Sounds good to me.  Vet too?

 

Sure, but I don’t know what vet would know about how the database would work.  

I don’t think having breeder name and info also on is bad, but I’d want mine as the first contact and breeder as back up to the back up.    

Edited September 3, 2019 by Pen

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, sheryl said:

Pawz, as I stated in another reply the breeder stated that the microchip should read her name and ours. I DON'T LIKE THAT.  I FEEL LIKE WE ARE BORROWING THE DOG AND SHE'S NOT REALLY OURS BUT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A CHOICE!  I wish I could change it to just our name as Jean mentioned something similarly.  

 

37 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I don't think it's a bad thing at all if the chip is registered in both the breeder's name AND your name. Good breeders often do that as a backup. But if it were my dog I'd want my name to be the primary contact, and I would want to have complete control of the registration account with the chip company.

If you don't want the breeder's name -- just have the vet insert a different chip. The vet will have them.

Yeah, that' pretty typical. It's a back up to the back up, and honestly, is there partly in case something happens to you and you give the dog away, or who knows what. Just shows they are committed to the dog forever. But your name will most likely be the first contact. It's just a back up, and honestly, a decent policy given how often phone numbers change, etc...it's not uncommon at all to try to reach someone via microchip information and they have moved or changed phone numbers and forgot to update the company. In that case a second number is super helpful. When I worked at the vet clinic the microchip was registered both to the clinic and the owner of the dog. Several times we got called, as the owner hadn't updated their info with the microchip company. Usually we were able to track the owner down then, as we either DID have the new phone number or we had alternate numbers, like a work number, other family member, etc. Or we might know their friends or family. Didn't mean we partly owned the dog, just a back up. 

[Spy Car]

Agreeing with Katie. I'd take it as a very good sign that you gave a breeder who is showing a lifetime commitment to care for dogs coming out of her kennel. 

That's precisely the sort of person one should get a dog from.I do not know her additional bona fides, but take this as a huge plus.

Ethical breeders who really care about the dogs that they breed will take back animals that are abandoned or lost. Take that as a very good sign.

Bill

[sheryl]

Well, maybe I'm just paranoid as we've never encountered this before from our other two lab breeders! 😂  So, yes, breeder "J" said we'd (family) would be primary contact and J would be back up to the back up.  Curious, I'm not sure about the question.  No, she didn't have us sign that into an agreement.  With as much time as these breeders know I've been looking for a dog (rescue or bred), they know we'll not return the dog.  I have ALOT, did I A LOT, of time and emotion spent on finding this puppy.  We were so close to adopting a rescue 3-5 year old female yellow Eng lab but I missed it by a short window of time.  She was from VA!  

Breeder used a phrase in the contract, which YES, it slipped past me as we were standing in her kitchen looking at ALL KINDS OF LABS from adult to puppy and the flurry of excitement, but it read "co-owner".  I read the contract when we got home and found it then.  WHAT THE HECK!??!?!  I don't want to "borrow" another's dog and pay them what we did.  She maintains a lot of control such as when to spay, food to buy, feeding times, etc.  To me this is over the top!  For one, this puppy is growing and the time schedule she is on now will NOT be what she is on in 4-6 months even.   CO-OWN!  We paid her money to co-own?  I don't get it.  OK, I need to settle down now - breathe!!!

[ktgrok]

7 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Well, maybe I'm just paranoid as we've never encountered this before from our other two lab breeders! 😂  So, yes, breeder "J" said we'd (family) would be primary contact and J would be back up to the back up.  Curious, I'm not sure about the question.  No, she didn't have us sign that into an agreement.  With as much time as these breeders know I've been looking for a dog (rescue or bred), they know we'll not return the dog.  I have ALOT, did I A LOT, of time and emotion spent on finding this puppy.  We were so close to adopting a rescue 3-5 year old female yellow Eng lab but I missed it by a short window of time.  She was from VA!  

Breeder used a phrase in the contract, which YES, it slipped past me as we were standing in her kitchen looking at ALL KINDS OF LABS from adult to puppy and the flurry of excitement, but it read "co-owner".  I read the contract when we got home and found it then.  WHAT THE HECK!??!?!  I don't want to "borrow" another's dog and pay them what we did.  She maintains a lot of control such as when to spay, food to buy, feeding times, etc.  To me this is over the top!  For one, this puppy is growing and the time schedule she is on now will NOT be what she is on in 4-6 months even.   CO-OWN!  We paid her money to co-own?  I don't get it.  OK, I need to settle down now - breathe!!!

Wait, you are just now finding out that she has requirements on spay, food, etc? Wasn't that covered before? It's not uncommon for breeders to "co-own" mainly to prevent dogs of their breeding, that they do not think are breeding quality, from being bred for profit. If the dog is a great dog but not show quality, they don't want their kennel name/pedigree associated with that dog in the ring or for future litters, particularly if they wouldn't have any control over who the dog is bred to. Some turn over full ownership to you once the dog is spayed/neutered. Conversely, some do it because they are not sure yet if the dog is breeding quality and if she is they want some control over who she is bred to, or want a say in her being shown, etc. But all this should have been covered before you bought the dog. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Ktgrok

[sheryl]

She didn't say anything during our first visit.  The second visit was this past Saturday when we picked up puppy and brought her home.  I'm reading page after page of this contract and the entire visit was dizzying as we were there for hours!  It's nice, appropriate and good she spent time with us.  As I look back, I'm certain I did NOT read those fine details.  I've NEVER had anyone dictate food choice, etc.  In any event, I'm going to reread the contract and consider calling her.  I do NOT want to "get permission" on how to "raise my dog".  I've had dogs for 30 (married) and before that into childhood.  Is this common?  I will NOT keep Shiloh on RC.   Interesting side note - J is also a p.t. vet check (how she has the time to do all of this is beyond me.  She is a wife, homeschool Mom to 3-4 kids, breeder of dogs and owner of horses on-site/ranch/stalls).  J does want me to AKC name the dog using her "company name/breeder name" as the first name followed by a few others (unique for registration).  But, Katie, is this normal?  I didn't plan to spay until after 1-2 heats due to the recent information regarding that (and that might be more for large breed dogs, I don't know).  HELP!

[Spy Car]

21 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Well, maybe I'm just paranoid as we've never encountered this before from our other two lab breeders! 😂  So, yes, breeder "J" said we'd (family) would be primary contact and J would be back up to the back up.  Curious, I'm not sure about the question.  No, she didn't have us sign that into an agreement.  With as much time as these breeders know I've been looking for a dog (rescue or bred), they know we'll not return the dog.  I have ALOT, did I A LOT, of time and emotion spent on finding this puppy.  We were so close to adopting a rescue 3-5 year old female yellow Eng lab but I missed it by a short window of time.  She was from VA!  

Breeder used a phrase in the contract, which YES, it slipped past me as we were standing in her kitchen looking at ALL KINDS OF LABS from adult to puppy and the flurry of excitement, but it read "co-owner".  I read the contract when we got home and found it then.  WHAT THE HECK!??!?!  I don't want to "borrow" another's dog and pay them what we did.  She maintains a lot of control such as when to spay, food to buy, feeding times, etc.  To me this is over the top!  For one, this puppy is growing and the time schedule she is on now will NOT be what she is on in 4-6 months even.   CO-OWN!  We paid her money to co-own?  I don't get it.  OK, I need to settle down now - breathe!!!

It is what's called a "legal fiction" that mainly precludes you from having breeding rights. She doesn't co-own the dog in a practical sense. What she has is the power to preclude you from using your dog to breed w/o her consent (which you would almost certainly not get).

These sorts of contracts are very common these days.

Bill

[sheryl]

7 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

It is what's called a "legal fiction" that mainly precludes you from having breeding rights. She doesn't co-own the dog in a practical sense. What she has is the power to preclude you from using your dog to breed w/o her consent (which you would almost certainly not get).

These sorts of contracts are very common these days.

Bill

Thanks, Bill. Right, we don't plan to breed Shiloh. We don't breed any of our pets.  But, a breeder might not know that and I can understand that aspect to it.  There is good money in pedigreed dogs.  

[Pawz4me]

5 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Thanks, Bill. Right, we don't plan to breed Shiloh. We don't breed any of our pets.  But, a breeder might not know that and I can understand that aspect to it.  There is good money in pedigreed dogs.  

Not really. The truly good breeders I know don't make very much at all. It's the puppy mills and back yard breeders who make money.

[Spy Car]

3 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Thanks, Bill. Right, we don't plan to breed Shiloh. We don't breed any of our pets.  But, a breeder might not know that and I can understand that aspect to it.  There is good money in pedigreed dogs.  

I'm blanking of the correct term--something like "limited registration" with the AKC--that uses the legal fiction that the breeder is a "co-owner."

This prevents people from being able to breed themselves and from being able to offer AKC registrable pups from dogs they purchase. The intention is to limit irresponsible breeding.

Other than this the breeder has no co-ownership of the dog in reality.

Bill

[Spy Car]

6 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Not really. The truly good breeders I know don't make very much at all. It's the puppy mills and back yard breeders who make money.

Correct. But if one could buy an AKC puppy (as in the past that was fully registered) one could set up a backyard breeding program *if* one had that full registration. It could not be stopped.

As you know, to slow or stop the irresponsible breeding of AKC pups is the reason this limited registration system (with breeder as "co-owner) was implemented. It removes breeding rights.

Ethical breeders are not making much (if any) money on their hobby. It costs money to do breeding properly and to pay for vet bills and clearances.

Bill

Edited September 3, 2019 by Spy Car

[sheryl]

Pawz,  I'm referring to "show" ring.  

Bill, did you read my other post?  What about her dictating food choice, etc?  Would you please take a moment and read that?  

[Spy Car]

2 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Pawz,  I'm referring to "show" ring.  

Bill, did you read my other post?  What about her dictating food choice, etc?  Would you please take a moment and read that?  

That condition in the contract is unenforceable. I understand why it might vex you, but I'd suggest not losing peace over something that has no power over you and your choices.

Bill

[sheryl]

😂  the word vex!  Reminds me of Mrs. Bennett in Pride and Prejudice.  LOL!  Thanks for the info! 

[Spy Car]

Also a dog can't be shown in AKC confirmation once it has been de-sexed. 

Bill

[Spy Car]

1 minute ago, sheryl said:

😂  the word vex!  Reminds me of Mrs. Bennett in Pride and Prejudice.  LOL!  Thanks for the info! 

I can be archaic.

Bill

[Pen]

36 minutes ago, sheryl said:

She didn't say anything during our first visit.  The second visit was this past Saturday when we picked up puppy and brought her home.  I'm reading page after page of this contract and the entire visit was dizzying as we were there for hours!  It's nice, appropriate and good she spent time with us.  As I look back, I'm certain I did NOT read those fine details.  I've NEVER had anyone dictate food choice, etc.

 

Food choice, if I didn’t agree with it, would bother me a lot.  

Quote

  In any event, I'm going to reread the contract and consider calling her.  I do NOT want to "get permission" on how to "raise my dog".  I've had dogs for 30 (married) and before that into childhood.  Is this common?  I will NOT keep Shiloh on RC.   Interesting side note - J is also a p.t. vet check

 

A what??  

Quote

(how she has the time to do all of this is beyond me.  She is a wife, homeschool Mom to 3-4 kids, breeder of dogs and owner of horses on-site/ranch/stalls).  J does want me to AKC name the dog using her "company name/breeder name" as the first name followed by a few others (unique for registration). 

 

The naming part is normal.  Fine.    One of my best of lifetime dogs came from a home that had kids and horses, and the mom taught horseback riding so the pups had amazing socialization with people of all ages coming and going and handling them.  

Quote

  I didn't plan to spay until after 1-2 heats due to the recent information regarding that (and that might be more for large breed dogs, I don't know).  HELP!

 

I’ve heard health benefits of spaying before first heat and after.  Myself, I’d probably wait to close to 6 months, trying to catch a time before first heat, but when a lot of physical development has taken place.  

(Eta: We don’t neuter our males dogs, and I haven’t had a female puppy since the 1990s to make spay decisions about.  So haven’t looked into it for females.  Heart health seems to be better for intact males.  I’d probably ask our holistic vet the latest on females.    —actually our non holistic vet is also good with our male dog being intact and wants a puppy should he ever sire one. — But for a female, I would also have to take into consideration presence of intact males and whether or not I thought I could keep a female from getting accidentally pregnant in our circumstances, and weigh that as against possible health benefits of waiting. )

The professional trainer we have worked with is also a breeder and uses co-owner contracts, but for dogs who won’t be spayed.  He retains breeding rights and the dog (bitch rather) goes back to him around age 2-4 to be bred once or twice.  If our insurance company didn’t have a ban on his breed, I’d get one of his pups.  

He prefers raw feeding, especially for any pup that will be bred.  The co own dogs have reduced price, I believe.  

 

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Pen
Clarification big ETA part

[sheryl]

8 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

I can be archaic.

Bill

i like it! 🙂

[sheryl]

12 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

Food choice, if I didn’t agree with it, would bother me a lot.  

 

A what??  

 

The naming part is normal.  Fine.    One of my best of lifetime dogs came from a home that had kids and horses, and the mom taught horseback riding so the pups had amazing socialization with people of all ages coming and going and handling them.  

 

I’ve heard health benefits of spaying before first heat and after.  Myself, I’d probably wait to close to 6 months, trying to catch a time before first heat, but when a lot of physical development has taken place.  

The professional trainer we have worked with is also a breeder and uses co-owner contracts, but for dogs who won’t be spayed.  He retains breeding rights and the dog (bitch rather) goes back to him around age 2-4 to be bred once or twice.  If our insurance company didn’t have a ban on his breed, I’d get one of his pups.  He also prefers raw feeding, especially for any pup that will be bred.  The co own dogs have reduced price, I believe.  

vet tech!

[ktgrok]

naming part is 100 percent normal.

I've never heard of a co-ownership contract that mandated food choice. Suggested food choices, yes. I've even seen contracts that say the warranty if void if you don't use a food they recommend, or vitamins, or what not. But I've never ever heard of a breeder taking a dog back due to the owner not feeding the "right" food. Are you sure the contract says you HAVE to feed that food, and does it specify what happens if you don't? Some parts of the paperwork may be contract and other parts just advice maybe?

Also, does she have a website that goes over the co-ownership thing? 

When you asked her about food did she say then that you were required to use that food, or just suggest it? might give you an idea how seriously she takes this. 

[sheryl]

11 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

naming part is 100 percent normal.

I've never heard of a co-ownership contract that mandated food choice. Suggested food choices, yes. I've even seen contracts that say the warranty if void if you don't use a food they recommend, or vitamins, or what not. But I've never ever heard of a breeder taking a dog back due to the owner not feeding the "right" food. Are you sure the contract says you HAVE to feed that food, and does it specify what happens if you don't? Some parts of the paperwork may be contract and other parts just advice maybe?

Also, does she have a website that goes over the co-ownership thing? 

When you asked her about food did she say then that you were required to use that food, or just suggest it? might give you an idea how seriously she takes this. 

You know, I WILL have to reread it.  I was so perplexed.  Hopefully I got it wrong and I'll let y'all know either way.  Naming:  OK, I can get the formal name leading with her breeding company name but she gave me a full name example and inferred to not even use the name "Shiloh" on the registration papers.  What say you?   I don't recall if I voiced my intent to wean/switch.  I think she said when dog was older it would be ok to switch.  Well, I'm wanting to do that asap.   

[Jean in Newcastle]

9 minutes ago, sheryl said:

You know, I WILL have to reread it.  I was so perplexed.  Hopefully I got it wrong and I'll let y'all know either way.  Naming:  OK, I can get the formal name leading with her breeding company name but she gave me a full name example and inferred to not even use the name "Shiloh" on the registration papers.  What say you?   I don't recall if I voiced my intent to wean/switch.  I think she said when dog was older it would be ok to switch.  Well, I'm wanting to do that asap.   

My dog's AKC names (which were suggested by the breeder) were not what we named and called them at home.  It's not like the dog knows what is on the papers.  And they don't care what  you call the dog. . They just want the "official"  name for the bloodline. 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Jean in Newcastle

[sheryl]

2 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

My dog's AKC names (which were suggested by the breeder) were not what we named and called them at home.  It's not like the dog knows what is on the papers.  And they don't care what  you call the dog. . They just want the "official"  name for the bloodline. 

Reread what i wrote.   She asked what we were going to name her.  I responded, "Shiloh".  And, she said that she wanted "T........   name, word, name" on AKC and we could refer to her as Shiloh at home.  WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAT!  

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 minute ago, sheryl said:

Reread what i wrote.   She asked what we were going to name her.  I responded, "Shiloh".  And, she said that she wanted "T........   name, word, name" on AKC and we could refer to her as Shiloh at home.  WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAT!  

Which is exactly what I said.  For example I know a dog whose name on the AKC papers is Grey Lady.  The dog is called Bella at home.  As far as the dog is concerned, her name is Bella. 

I never once had to use or refer to my dog's AKC names in their 14 years of life after filing the AKC paperwork. 

[Spy Car]

2 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Reread what i wrote.   She asked what we were going to name her.  I responded, "Shiloh".  And, she said that she wanted "T........   name, word, name" on AKC and we could refer to her as Shiloh at home.  WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAT!  

Not unusual. Will ultimately be meaningless if you do not get a full AKC registration and more significantly don't breed.

Bill

 

[sheryl]

Oh, got it.  B/C it's "limited".  But, why was she so specific with the name?  Why not "T....." Shiloh?  Bill, are you saying it's not unusual for a breeder to suggest (strongly) a name for AKC reg purposes?  But, the name given by family is NOT on AKC?

Jean, lol.  I know the dog doesn't know what name appears but won't the breeder know?  I can't put Shiloh on the AKC reg, it seems.  

[sheryl]

DH and I are going on a date night to movie and DD is staying home to watch puppy! 🙂   Pictures up by Thurs or Fri at the latest.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

12 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Oh, got it.  B/C it's "limited".  But, why was she so specific with the name?  Why not "T....." Shiloh?  Bill, are you saying it's not unusual for a breeder to suggest (strongly) a name for AKC reg purposes?  But, the name given by family is NOT on AKC?

Jean, lol.  I know the dog doesn't know what name appears but won't the breeder know?  I can't put Shiloh on the AKC reg, it seems.  

The breeder is not going to be calling or interacting with your dog.  Unless you give it back.  Which you said that you wouldn't do.  Anyway, our breeder (who we were friends with) had absolutely no problem keeping the AKC name distinguished from our family name for the dog.  Many (most?) breeders have themes to their names.  For example, the Grey Lady I mentioned above was a Weimaraner  All their AKC names include the word "Grey" in it and since there is a long bloodline using those names, they want strict control over the entire name to prevent mixups and also to represent their kennel well on the paperwork. 

[Spy Car]

13 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Oh, got it.  B/C it's "limited".  But, why was she so specific with the name?  Why not "T....." Shiloh?  Bill, are you saying it's not unusual for a breeder to suggest (strongly) a name for AKC reg purposes?  But, the name given by family is NOT on AKC?

Jean, lol.  I know the dog doesn't know what name appears but won't the breeder know?  I can't put Shiloh on the AKC reg, it seems.  

Yes I'm saying that's not uncommon.

I'm trying to remember the name I was strong-armed into when I got my first dog as the AKC sow name/registration name.

It was something like Prince Weird-name of Sufi's Delight.

We called the Irish Setter: "Kelly."

Bill

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 minute ago, Spy Car said:

Yes I'm saying that's not uncommon.

I'm trying to remember the name I was strong-armed into when I got my first dog as the AKC sow name/registration name.

It was something like Prince Weird-name of Sufi's Delight.

We called the Irish Setter: "Kelly."

Bill

And I bet if you looked back in the bloodline you would have seen Sufi as either a Sire or Dam and then there was Sufi's Delight as its offspring and then your dog as it's offspring in turn. . .

[Spy Car]

4 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

The breeder is not going to be calling or interacting with your dog.  Unless you give it back.  Which you said that you wouldn't do.  Anyway, our breeder (who we were friends with) had absolutely no problem keeping the AKC name distinguished from our family name for the dog.  Many (most?) breeders have themes to their names.  For example, the Grey Lady I mentioned above was a Weimaraner  All their AKC names include the word "Grey" in it and since there is a long bloodline using those names, they want strict control over the entire name to prevent mixups and also to represent their kennel well on the paperwork. 

+1

Bill

[Pen]

35 minutes ago, sheryl said:

You know, I WILL have to reread it.  I was so perplexed.  Hopefully I got it wrong and I'll let y'all know either way.  Naming:  OK, I can get the formal name leading with her breeding company name but she gave me a full name example and inferred to not even use the name "Shiloh" on the registration papers.  What say you?   I don't recall if I voiced my intent to wean/switch.  I think she said when dog was older it would be ok to switch.  Well, I'm wanting to do that asap.   

 

Are you talking about weaning re food or name?

name, just call her Shiloh, and associate good things with her name—no “weaning”.  

Her registration name can be whatever breeder wants.  They are usually high falutin and nearly never used to actually call the dog.  Kennels have systems like Kennel name ,  lineage name, litter name, individual dog name.  Or dogs may be all named starting with a particular letter for each litter...   

 

 

Food, I’d wean off to a better ingredients food ASAP.  

 

[ktgrok]

40 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Reread what i wrote.   She asked what we were going to name her.  I responded, "Shiloh".  And, she said that she wanted "T........   name, word, name" on AKC and we could refer to her as Shiloh at home.  WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAT!  

Many dogs have two names. They have a registered name - the AKC name that sounds silly most of the time as far as I'm concerned because it is some contrivance utilizing both the kennel name and then all the dogs of the same litter will have names starting with the same letter, and then their "call name" which is what they are actually called. So if the kennel was Sundance and this was the third litter the puppies might be named Sundance Cool'kid on the Block, Sundance Cow Chaser's Delight, Sundance Crimson Fields Forever, and Sundance Cootie Shot. But at home the dogs are referred to as Fred, Jake, Fluffy, and Spot. 

[Spy Car]

1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

And I bet if you looked back in the bloodline you would have seen Sufi as either a Sire or Dam and then there was Sufi's Delight as its offspring and then your dog as it's offspring in turn. . .

Sufi's Delight was the breeder's kennel name IMS, but she had a deal with another breeder that got the first position (as they were the source of her breed stock).

I was 10 and asked, "is that what I have to call him?"

Once reassured, I never gave it another thought. Until now. 52 years later.

Bill

 

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, sheryl said:

DH and I are going on a date night to movie and DD is staying home to watch puppy! 🙂   Pictures up by Thurs or Fri at the latest.  

You mentioned the need to go outside every 15-20 minutes?

Bill