New Puppy we are considering! Need list to buy and questions! UPDATE !!! SEPT 4, May 3 - PICTURES!!!

[sheryl]

On 5/8/2020 at 5:43 PM, Pen said:

Yours may not need as much exercise as ours since ours have been working line types.

But yours needs as much as you can manage to where she’s tired out. Physically from exercise some of the time and mentally from training.

I wasn’t thinking 3-4 hours non stop.  15 minutes multiple times per day for ball and training and maybe once for biking would be good for you as well as her.

Did you ever try out clicker?

OH, lol.  I thought you were suggesting 3-4 hours in one stretch.  

In general no amount of mere walking is enough for a young Lab to be well exercised.  They can walk or trot pretty much all day and not be tired if weather permits.  They need a daily run  (or significant swim or something that really works them).   

 

Maybe show line Labs?  Idk.      Our first lab was English show quality and came from championship but that's not why we bought her.  She was actually runt of litter.  She was bred by someone who lived in a small community.  Nice man.  Our 2nd lab we found out was more field and alpha. Wow. We loved her but her disposition was so different.  Shiloh is English and comes from championship as well.  We do not seek out championship lines it's just that many times based on our preferences they end up with championship.

ETA: or maybe you are remembering your dogs when they were older mature dogs? No longer young adults?

Our dogs have more energy than that ... at least if they enjoy ball. Our current dog doesn’t much like ball (sadly for my son), but he likes a good long run. 

 

“Roam” ?  Do you live where roaming is still okay for dogs in terms of both safety and law? 

I don’t know what “now and then” means to you. A roughly 0.75 to 2 yo Lab will need quite a lot of exercise IMO.  Daily. 

Oh dear, let me explain this.  She was born mid June and will turn a year next  month.  It's unwise to take a very young puppy hiking (depends on "level" of hike, etc). So she was 6 months when winter hit and then CO19 surfaced and we've been sequestered.   

But, we naturally like and do hike, kayak, bike and are active.   She will do many outdoor special activities with us in  the near future when we "open" back up fully. 

We will always talk her on a short walk in our neighborhood.  Some walks are shorter and some are longer.  In addition to those we are training.  Now when I say now and then I'm referring to in addition to the above, when we are outside for hours doing yard work or whatever,  we'd like to be able  to have her off leash running/walking  our property.  But, I need to look at the specifics of the law on that.

 

Great!!!

Then go for bike!  ASAP!!!!  

Never mind if not perfect bike, your dog needs exercise right now.   

I had a “beater” dog exercising bike, which was great because if I had to drop it for some reason, it wasn’t a great special bike in first place. 

Good for your health and hers!!! And a lot less energy expended by you will help tire her.  You can probably just go back and forth in front of your own house if needs be. 

 

You don’t need a teen for 3 hours per day, just for whatever you cannot do yourself.  Sort of like a tutor for some subject  you aren’t able to teach yourself in homeschool. For Days you can’t give adequate exercise, or to fill in maybe once per day while you do exercise and training twice per day. 

Professional trainer for doggie boarding school training may be working now.   Depends on your state rules, I guess.  But many places animal services are still functioning within safe distance guidelines. 

Yes, again, when we were ready for trainer CO19 hit.  So,  no excuses here but I'm not  going to pay for virtual classes.   

My sister is going to be away for several weeks and she said I can take Shiloh to her house and their fenced in back yard while they are away.  They are only 10 minutes from us so very convenient.  Starting this weekend or early next week we'll be going over several times a week.   The days are longer and now is good before it gets super HOT here.  Shiloh just won't have other dogs but this is her training and free time in their fenced in yard.  I just don't know "how" to train.   I've taken advice from many of you:   you, Bill, Katie, Pawz. Lori and many others.   It's been helpful but I don't know "how" to teach to prevent unwanted behavior.  This is where the trainer comes in.  Soon our state (if all continues to go well) will open  up more.  But, she turns 1 year next month.  So,  while I'm not a professional dog trainer and have made error, I'm hoping that overall I've done some good. Thanks to y'all we started  within the first week or days after bringing her home.  

There is still work to do.  Thanks,  Pen.   You are right and I appreciate your feedback!  🙂

 

I don’t know how long a rope or training lead.  It certainly can be a suitable rope, clothesline, etc, rather than a bought lead.  

And that might be best fastened on a harness so that she doesn’t hurt her neck if she gets going and then hits end with force. 

 It depends on how big your front yard is and other such factors. How dangerous your road is...

I’d want to set it up so I was holding it or it was tied to something stable.   Each time she bolts into road she is learning to do that.  

There’s not really catching and re-teaching IMO.  ETA: you are teaching her to do exactly what she is doing.  So, very gently, it is you as trainer error, not her error as dog.   The more time and effort you can put in now (both training and exercise) the more you can have long happy years with her ahead.  

Yes, I agree.  It is definitely our error.  With that said, we're trying but missing a component somewhere in the process to "seal" the desired behavior towards obedience. 

Very important: You need to set her up for success in the first place, not for repeating doing the wrong (and potentially dangerous) thing of bolting into road.   See above sentence - similar.

I’d set it up to work on recall from progressively farther distance, using rope or lead or whatever to help as needed, then when she’s good at that add distracting and enticing things like a still toy, slow car, bike, moving toy, person ... (another situation where hiring local kid to be distraction might be a help).    Well, that's what we've been trying but again, we're doing something wrong and it's causing a kink.

If you could do 12 training sessions of 5 minutes each through day, along with a good run and some play time, it would probably help immensely. And a professional trainer to help probably would help a lot too.  

Btw, I would personally not expect spaying to do much other than ensure she does not have puppies.  No more than it would help a human learn how to do math or drive or whatever.  And she will still need exercise.  It is practice and learning of the desired behavior that is needed.  

It is a lot of work!!! But also can be fun!!! And very rewarding!!!!!

 

[sheryl]

Let me add tha t I would have replied sooner but WTM was down for me a couple of days and I just now got to it.  My spacebar key is broken and I need to get it fixed.  Time consuming to achieve a space many times.    🙂

[Pen]

If you can get a professional trainer, ideally in person (masks, appropriate distance etc...) to make one or two house visits to your house, or maybe even or two Skype or FaceTime type visits, that might be far more valuable in your situation than classes.  Classes are fun, and distraction of other dogs can be a useful thing sometimes.  But a few private sessions with time to practice skills in between would probably be more effective. 

You have a particular situation that has developed with regard to your own yard and street that needs a solution.  And a good trainer who can see the exact layout can probably help a lot to advise you exactly how to work with her. 

She might learn to do perfectly in the environment of a trainer’s place of work—yet continue to bolt when at home.  

If in your situation I would look for someone who can do a training visit at your home, or at least drive by to see the situation and advise by phone or an online system where he can observe you. Or perhaps he could be in car watching and even creating the distraction that would make her bolt, while telling you (perhaps through phone earbuds) what to do moment by moment. 

 

For exercise do whatever you can.  In smoke wildfire situations when we can’t get out we have done thing like play hide and seek indoors with the dog, or call the dog up and down the stairs.  

[sheryl]

35 minutes ago, Pen said:

If you can get a professional trainer, ideally in person (masks, appropriate distance etc...) to make one or two house visits to your house, or maybe even or two Skype or FaceTime type visits, that might be far more valuable in your situation than classes.  Classes are fun, and distraction of other dogs can be a useful thing sometimes.  But a few private sessions with time to practice skills in between would probably be more effective. 

You have a particular situation that has developed with regard to your own yard and street that needs a solution.  And a good trainer who can see the exact layout can probably help a lot to advise you exactly how to work with her. 

She might learn to do perfectly in the environment of a trainer’s place of work—yet continue to bolt when at home.  

If in your situation I would look for someone who can do a training visit at your home, or at least drive by to see the situation and advise by phone or an online system where he can observe you. Or perhaps he could be in car watching and even creating the distraction that would make her bolt, while telling you (perhaps through phone earbuds) what to do moment by moment. 

 

For exercise do whatever you can.  In smoke wildfire situations when we can’t get out we have done thing like play hide and seek indoors with the dog, or call the dog up and down the stairs.  

OK, we just got back from dog park.  It's a new one and I wanted to get  there early to not be with a large  group of dogs but by ourselves or with another one or two.  We got there about 11:15 this morning and there was no one there!  We were getting out  of car and a young guy showed up with his 2 dogs.  We all walked in together and it was great. Shiloh did not take to the 7 year old girl (I found out she doesn't socialize with other dogs really).   Shiloh took up with the 2 year old male dog.   They had an excellent time playing for about 50-60  min of almost non-stop running, rolling around, etc.  I was able to talk with this very nice young  man of 22.  We talked dogs and chatted.  The dogs played so well together.      

Pen, thanks.  That is a new perspective on training I had not thought of but will reconnect with a dog trainer in our neighborhood!  

Needless to say Shiloh is knocked out.  🙂  I will say when  I called her  in  the dog park,  twice  she came and each time she earned a treat.  

Edited May 12, 2020 by sheryl

[Jean in Newcastle]

I personally would never rely on a dog just being in an unfenced yard with access to a road no matter how much training he/she had had.  It only takes one squirrel etc. for a dog to forget its training and bolt across the road.  (This by the way is how Libby the Disabled Wonder Dog was disabled to begin with - a poorly fenced dog park and a squirrel across the street.  She stopped when called, started to respond to our recall and then the squirrel moved again and the instinct to chase overtook all training.) 

Edited May 12, 2020 by Jean in Newcastle
punctuation

[sheryl]

8 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I personally would never rely on a dog just being in an unfenced yard with access to a road no matter how much training he/she had had.  It only takes one squirrel etc. for a dog to forget its training and bolt across the road.  (This by the way is how Libby the Disabled Wonder Dog was disabled to begin with - a poorly fenced dog park and a squirrel across the street.  She stopped when called, started to respond to our recall and then the squirrel moved again and the instinct to chase overtook all training.) 

Surely not "rely" as we'll be outside with her.  Once we don't see her, she'll go in. She'll have to earn that privilege of being outside with us putzing around.  

We are at the end of a cul-de-sac.  It's becoming increasingly more difficult as she's noticed neighbor dogs, so our plan may not work.  In terms of squirrels,  that's true but each breed is wired differently and each dog within a breed.   Still, I understand there are generalities that serve as guidelines, sometimes.

[Selkie]

On 5/7/2020 at 8:55 PM, sheryl said:

We do not have a fenced in yard.  Training is getting more difficult to train her off leash.  She has gotten bold and run into the street 3 times.  We are tucked away in a neighborhood on a  short cul-de-sac but still don't like this scenario.   She was called and never came.  

A fenced yard would be the best solution - is that a possibility? I wouldn't have a dog without a fence, as there is such a risk of the dog being hit by a car or getting lost. I see these scenarios happen over and over again on the breed specific Facebook groups I'm in, and it's sad because it is so preventable.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Selkie

[Jean in Newcastle]

44 minutes ago, sheryl said:

Surely not "rely" as we'll be outside with her.  Once we don't see her, she'll go in. She'll have to earn that privilege of being outside with us putzing around.  

We are at the end of a cul-de-sac.  It's becoming increasingly more difficult as she's noticed neighbor dogs, so our plan may not work.  In terms of squirrels,  that's true but each breed is wired differently and each dog within a breed.   Still, I understand there are generalities that serve as guidelines, sometimes.

You realize that we were all outside with Libby at the (supposedly) fenced dog park, right?  We knew instantly when she took off.  She started to obey and then didn't.  Anyway, it's your choice but I'm just telling you that I would not play Russian Roulette with my dog.  And I spend a lot of time training my dog.  To the point where people at other (appropriately fenced) dog parks are amazed that my dog is obeying in the midst of dog chaos.  But there are no squirrels taunting her there and the fence is there to keep her safe. 

[Pawz4me]

8 hours ago, sheryl said:

Surely not "rely" as we'll be outside with her.  Once we don't see her, she'll go in. She'll have to earn that privilege of being outside with us putzing around.  

We are at the end of a cul-de-sac.  It's becoming increasingly more difficult as she's noticed neighbor dogs, so our plan may not work.  In terms of squirrels,  that's true but each breed is wired differently and each dog within a breed.   Still, I understand there are generalities that serve as guidelines, sometimes.

What you're asking of her requires a tremendous level of training. And it sounds as if you've got a very long way to go. Our Shih Tzu is 8 years old and I do allow him to be loose in our unfenced front yard (we also live on a cul de sac--not at the end, but not much traffic). He's well trained to voice control, but mostly I do it because he's a companion breed and I'm the only thing he's interested in and he naturally never wants to be far from me. He cares nothing for squirrels or any other wildlife, and watches but doesn't react to other dogs. He was 5 years old before I considered him well trained enough to allow him out. He's the only dog I've ever allowed that privilege. All my other dogs were sporting, hound or guardian breeds--medium/large dogs who were equally well trained, but more active and much more interested in lots of things besides me, and for whom the temptation to stray (or bolt) away from me while my attention was diverted would have been too great IMO.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Pawz4me

[sheryl]

On 5/12/2020 at 10:03 PM, Selkie said:

A fenced yard would be the best solution - is that a possibility? I wouldn't have a dog without a fence, as there is such a risk of the dog being hit by a car or getting lost. I see these scenarios happen over and over again on the breed specific Facebook groups I'm in, and it's sad because it is so preventable.

I don't believe a fenced yard is going to happen.   

On 5/12/2020 at 10:30 PM, Jean in Newcastle said:

You realize that we were all outside with Libby at the (supposedly) fenced dog park, right?  We knew instantly when she took off.  She started to obey and then didn't.  Anyway, it's your choice but I'm just telling you that I would not play Russian Roulette with my dog.  And I spend a lot of time training my dog.  To the point where people at other (appropriately fenced) dog parks are amazed that my dog is obeying in the midst of dog chaos.  But there are no squirrels taunting her there and the fence is there to keep her safe. 

I believe you're saying the  fence to the dog park was compromised.  That can happen as the deer broke in to (to a point) my neighbor's wooden fence enough to compromise it and one of her small dogs could get out.   Our huge lab would not be able to through that particular hole.   

On 5/13/2020 at 5:52 AM, Pawz4me said:

What you're asking of her requires a tremendous level of training. And it sounds as if you've got a very long way to go. Our Shih Tzu is 8 years old and I do allow him to be loose in our unfenced front yard (we also live on a cul de sac--not at the end, but not much traffic). He's well trained to voice control, but mostly I do it because he's a companion breed and I'm the only thing he's interested in and he naturally never wants to be far from me. He cares nothing for squirrels or any other wildlife, and watches but doesn't react to other dogs. He was 5 years old before I considered him well trained enough to allow him out. He's the only dog I've ever allowed that privilege. All my other dogs were sporting, hound or guardian breeds--medium/large dogs who were equally well trained, but more active and much more interested in lots of things besides me, and for whom the temptation to stray (or bolt) away from me while my attention was diverted would have been too great IMO.

Yes, I know.  She's a puppy and will be an adult dog.  A family member.  We are active and do many fun activities.  We are hoping she'll be able to be leash free outside.  Time will tell.  Maybe not.  

I called a trainer and am waiting to hear back.  She or he will be able to identify our particular situation.  I know training her now will be easier rather than introduce the idea 4 years from now.  We'll see - maybe I'll back way off if the trainer suggests. 

Definitely do not want her hit by a car.   

Decades  ago after my sister and then new husband came back from their honeymoon they let our dog out and he was hit/killed by a car. I was riding my bike at the time only to go home and learn what happened.  

[Pen]

1 hour ago, sheryl said:

I don't believe a fenced yard is going to happen.   

I believe you're saying the  fence to the dog park was compromised.  That can happen as the deer broke in to (to a point) my neighbor's wooden fence enough to compromise it and one of her small dogs could get out.   Our huge lab would not be able to through that particular hole.   

Yes, I know.  She's a puppy and will be an adult dog.  A family member.  We are active and do many fun activities.  We are hoping she'll be able to be leash free outside.  Time will tell.  Maybe not.  

I called a trainer and am waiting to hear back.  She or he will be able to identify our particular situation.  I know training her now will be easier rather than introduce the idea 4 years from now.  We'll see - maybe I'll back way off if the trainer suggests. 

Definitely do not want her hit by a car.   

Decades  ago after my sister and then new husband came back from their honeymoon they let our dog out and he was hit/killed by a car. I was riding my bike at the time only to go home and learn what happened.  

 

If no fence, I highly recommend a harness with long lead, rope, whatever, attached to her and to you or a fixed object on other end that won’t allow her to go into road.  It is a fairly simple solution to being able to have her safely outdoors with you. And could protect her from being hit by a car. 

The lead or rope should be shorter than would allow her to go into road. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Pen

[sheryl]

18 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

If no fence, I highly recommend a harness with long lead, rope, whatever, attached to her and to you or a fixed object on other end that won’t allow her to go into road.  It is a fairly simple solution to being able to have her safely outdoors with you. And could protect her from being hit by a car. 

The lead or rope should be shorter than would allow her to go into road. 

Yes,  we took your recommendation the other day and put a long rope lead out front.   Secured to a huge, old oak tree.