Can't decide on grammar

[Elizabeth86]

For my son's third grade year we are doing:

MP lit guides

ZB Handwriting

Still deciding on spelling

Writing & Rhetoric Fables

I was thinking of doing BJU's English, but I haven't decided. I once thought of doing ELTL, but I felt like it was not for me.  I did like how grammar was done.  It seemed effective, but not a ton of work.  Any curriculum that is just grammar that looks like this.  I have considered FLL, but where do you start for third if we have not done any of the levels before, 1 or 3?  R&S seems pretty thprough, but it seems kind of bori g and a lot of work maybe. Honestly, I have no idea what I want, I just know it when I see it.Any idea what I might be looking for?

 

[Elizabeth86]

26 minutes ago, parent said:

We started FLL at level 3 in 3rd grade and it was fine.  I liked the content.  Poetry memorization, grammar, and diagramming were very good.  What I did not like is that it is entirely dependent on the teacher's script.  There are not even instructions in the student manual.  This would be fine if you have one child but was difficult for me to have to wait for  the entire lesson and not be able to work with my other children. All that said, it is still on my maybe list for grammar (though rather far down on the list) because I did like the content. 

Yeah my third grader is my oldest of 4, so yeah...

[alisha]

I really like Grammar Galaxy but haven't used it because my youngest would only get the last level. But I have looked at it multiple times online and hardcopy and really like it. THey read as story-part of an adventure each day, then do some a worksheet sort of thing. I'm not too helpful because it's been a few months since I looked at it, but really liked it when I did.

[Elizabeth86]

10 minutes ago, alisha said:

I really like Grammar Galaxy but haven't used it because my youngest would only get the last level. But I have looked at it multiple times online and hardcopy and really like it. THey read as story-part of an adventure each day, then do some a worksheet sort of thing. I'm not too helpful because it's been a few months since I looked at it, but really liked it when I did.

I just took a look at this! This may be what I am looking for!!

[MeaganS]

I've used FLL1-4. I like it, but I agree that I wish it was written to the student rather than scripted. With 3 kids in grammar next year, that's like 45 min to an hour of me giving grammar instruction daily. And it's one I have to be actively helping with. It's a difficult one to juggle another kid at the same time. That's really my only con and what makes me hesitant to start Grammar for the WTM with dd10 here in a few weeks when she finishes FLL4. It's very solid though. 

Next year I'm planning on doing Beowulf Grammar with my 2-5 graders. It's a one-level program so they'll be doing the same book, but it will be a fun break for me and them I think. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by MeaganS

[Soror]

I've used parts of FLL here and there, IMO you can jump in at higher levels with the older kid, there is so much review.

[Soror]

1 hour ago, MeaganS said:

I've used FLL1-4. I like it, but I agree that I wish it was written to the student rather than scripted. With 3 kids in grammar next year, that's like 45 min to an hour of me giving grammar instruction daily. And it's one I have to be actively helping with. It's a difficult one to juggle another kid at the same time. That's really my only con and what makes me hesitant to start Grammar for the WTM with dd10 here in a few weeks when she finishes FLL4. It's very solid though. 

Next year I'm planning on doing Beowulf Grammar with my 2-5 graders. It's a one-level program so they'll be doing the same book, but it will be a fun break for me and them I think. 

Fwiw I'm using Beowulf's with my older 2 girls this year and they both love it, dd1-k is very disappointed that she doesn't get to join in but although it looks fun to her she is not up for the concepts.

[MeaganS]

25 minutes ago, soror said:

Fwiw I'm using Beowulf's with my older 2 girls this year and they both love it, dd1-k is very disappointed that she doesn't get to join in but although it looks fun to her she is not up for the concepts.

I'm glad. Right now the older two agree that grammar is their least favorite and I usually start in fll3 in second grade after they've memorized the general definitions and lists via FLL1/2 and CAP grammar CDs. I tend to use straight and to the point materials in my homeschool. I think they'll like something a bit more fun, crafty, and colorful. And it seems to cover about the same content as FLL 3 or 4.

Edited February 10, 2019 by MeaganS

[Targhee]

Stand alone grammar for 3rd grade we liked MCT.  It is not like FLL or probably ELTL, but it is a gentle, yet deep, way of teaching grammar.  We used it with W&R.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Targhee

[Elizabeth86]

48 minutes ago, Targhee said:

Stand alone grammar for 3rd grade we liked MCT.  It is not like FLL or probably ELTL, but it is a gentle, yet deep, way of teaching grammar.  We used it with W&R.

Will take a look.

[Lori D.]

If interested in combining some of the LA subjects to reduce so many individual programs and if interested in something a little more informal/friendly in tone, you might look at the grammar + writing programs of:
- Writing Tales level 1 -- for gr. 3-4
- Treasured Conversations (now called Teaching Writing Through Guided Analysis) for gr. 3-5

[Ellie]

14 hours ago, Elizabeth86 said:

For my son's third grade year we are doing:

MP lit guides

ZB Handwriting

Still deciding on spelling

Writing & Rhetoric Fables

I was thinking of doing BJU's English, but I haven't decided. I once thought of doing ELTL, but I felt like it was not for me.  I did like how grammar was done.  It seemed effective, but not a ton of work.  Any curriculum that is just grammar that looks like this.  I have considered FLL, but where do you start for third if we have not done any of the levels before, 1 or 3?  R&S seems pretty thprough, but it seems kind of bori g and a lot of work maybe. Honestly, I have no idea what I want, I just know it when I see it.Any idea what I might be looking for?

 

If you're doing W&R, you don't need BJUP's English. I'm assuming you'd be doing just the grammar? Don't spend your brain cells picking grammar out of a comprehensive grammar/comp (ditto for R&S English, which I like overall, but it is also comprehensive composition and grammar). Just look at something that's just grammar, such as Easy Grammar, or Analytical Grammar, or whatever.

But I will say this: truly, you don't need grammar at this point. Really.

[Elizabeth86]

7 minutes ago, Ellie said:

If you're doing W&R, you don't need BJUP's English. I'm assuming you'd be doing just the grammar? Don't spend your brain cells picking grammar out of a comprehensive grammar/comp (ditto for R&S English, which I like overall, but it is also comprehensive composition and grammar). Just look at something that's just grammar, such as Easy Grammar, or Analytical Grammar, or whatever.

But I will say this: truly, you don't need grammar at this point. Really.

I keep thinking grammar might not be a high priority for us right now.  When do you suggest picking up grammar? What does an ideal third grade look like to you?

[Lori D.]

13 hours ago, Elizabeth86 said:

I keep thinking grammar might not be a high priority for us right now.  When do you suggest picking up grammar? What does an ideal third grade look like to you?

Not Ellie (lol), but here's my 2 cents worth:

The "ideal 3rd grade" is going to vary *widely* on the individual student's development and needs. Yes, very typically, 3rd grade is when people start formal grammar, as the student is reading comfortably, and starting to do some very basic writing, and grammar is linked to those other LA areas. However some people start some very basic grammar in 2nd or even 1st grade (FLL early levels, for example), and others wait until 4th or even 5th grade to start (Shirley Grammar, for example).

Lots of options with Grammar. Some families only do grammar for 3-4 years (examples: 4 years in grades 5-8; or, 3 years in alternate years of 4th, 6th, and 8th grades). We started early (1st grade) BUT only spent about 10 min./3x a week, and continued to only do grammar 3x/week through elementary grades -- in 3rd grade we were spending maybe 15-20 min. at most each time, so only 45-60 minutes per WEEK on grammar. While we did use a stand-alone grammar program, we also regularly did dictation-type of work so that we were discussing grammar within the context of writing, as grammar is really a "tool" that is used in correct speaking and writing (and foreign language acquisition).

Below are what I see as typical 3rd grade LA areas, for the typical/average 3rd grader (no special needs -- no LDs/delays, not accelerated/gifted, etc.):

1. Reading (no formal "lit. study")
   * Student Reading
      - books: assigned quality books (beginning and longer chapter books) and/or reading program, some read aloud to/with parent
      - level: books at/just above comfortable reading level
      - goal: build confidence and practice fluency, stamina, comprehension (at level books), and "stretch" (just above level books)
   * Read-Alouds = parent reads aloud (and/or audiobooks) from good books above 3rd grader's reading level
   * Solo Reading (optional)
      - student reads for a short, scheduled time (20-30 min. for 3rd grade) for added practice
      - student chooses from "book basket selections"; books are at/below comfortable reading level

2. Handwriting / Copywork
     goals: practice printing (manuscript) and/or introduce cursive (if student is ready)

3. Spelling
     goals: beginning vowel patterns; word families; prefixes/word endings; contractions; compound words; etc.

4. Writing (if student is ready)
     goals: complete sentences; beginning short writing (2-4 *short* sentences per sitting) of various types

5. Grammar (can wait till 4th or even 5th grade)
     goals: complete sentence; capitalization and punctuation exposure; possibly beginning exposure to parts of speech

optional:
6. Phonics = if still needed, used in support of Spelling and/or Reading (if student is still getting solid with Reading)
7. Vocabulary = if desired (more often done in grades 5-8, with roots study or learn words from Reading)

Edited February 11, 2019 by Lori D.

[Ellie]

15 hours ago, Elizabeth86 said:

I keep thinking grammar might not be a high priority for us right now.  When do you suggest picking up grammar? What does an ideal third grade look like to you?

I don't have an ideal "third grade," because homeschooled children aren't "in" "grades." 🙂

However, I don't do a formal grammar until children are around 10 years old, and then I only do it once. In our house, Easy Grammar was the winner.

Children can learn to write well without studying grammar for many years. After that year or so of grammar, you can correct their writing more easily, because you can say things like, "See, you used the subjective pronoun here and you needed the objective pronoun," or "Remember that a gerund takes a possessive pronoun."