Saxon math ?

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

What is the opinion of the Hive Mind about Saxon Algebra 1?

 

I don't think I could teach Dolciani. Can't afford Chalkdust.

 

What is the opinion here about Jacobs?

 

Even if I stay with Lial's for ds13, Lial's will not work for ds11 in a year or two.

 

Thanks,

Pam L

[Jann in TX]

I first taught Saxon about 15 years ago when I started working with older homeschooled students. It was a popular program and choices were slim back then.

 

I think it is a good program but it is NOT for every student. Because their teaching methods are SO DIFFERENT it was 'hard' to teach at times because I had to learn THEIR methods. The lessons are short but they are NOT in order--it seems kind of random. During the lesson the student NEEDS to work the practice problems because they will only see 2-5 of those in the homework. The rest of the homework comes from prior lessons. It is absolutely NECESSARY that all problems are worked out in the homework section. This is because the problems that go with lesson 24 will be HARDER in the 'review' part of lesson 50. In many cases a student will get stuck and the reference number will tell them to go back to lesson XX and their problem will look NOTHING like those. Also while problem number 19 looks almost identical to problem number 20, the subtle placement of a negative sign makes them totally different concepts!

 

The DIVE cd program really helps make this program work as it is very hard to self-teach Saxon.

 

Some students thrive on working lots of different problems each day--others need to camp out on a concept and practice it over and over.

 

---

Jacobs is an engaging 'writtten to student' text. It can be a bit wordy for some students but it is a nice strong program. There is not an Algebra 2 text--but after Jacobs Algebra 1 a student could move into any other program (author recommends Foerster).

[Pam L in Mid Tenn]

Oh yes, you are right Jann.... that is why we bailed OUT of Saxon years ago. :) You've reminded me the reason I don't want Saxon.

 

My brain just keeps turning "algebra programs" over and over and over.

[Hillary in KS]

I would love to hear more on this.

 

This is our first year with Saxon, and are currently in Algebra 1.

 

So far, I like the extra repitition, but that works with ds' type. We can camp out on a subject until he gets it, but if we don't review frequently, the next time he sees it he won't recognize it.

 

I absolutely agree, though, that it is essential to do all the homework problems. This is not a program where you get to assign only the evens/odds. :)

 

I'd be curious to hear from people who have used both Saxon and another program. We like Saxon now, but I'll jump ship in a heartbeat if there's something better.

[langfam]

I'd be curious to hear from people who have used both Saxon and another program. We like Saxon now, but I'll jump ship in a heartbeat if there's something better.

Gulp! Are you ready for the wild ride of mind-boggling options? Jacob's, Dolciani, Foerster's. Lial, Chalkdust....have I missed any?

 

Then there's learning styles and matching them with your child's. It's a tough job and there are no guarantees.

[Nan in Mass]

It definately didn't work for my particular children. Lots of people use it perfectly happily, though.

 

We had two problems with Saxon. One was that it chopped a topic up into such small pieces that my children couldn't put them back together again to understand the concept. They just memorized the algorithm. You do this, and you do that, and that, and this bit here is the answer. The second was that I couldn't tell that it wasn't working. My children, having memorized the algorithm, could answer the book questions right, so I didn't know it wasn't working for us until the oldest tried a different program in public high school, and we began to discover that the middle one couldn't apply any of his math to real life situations or math problems other than those in Saxon (which uses only certain key words in their word problems). He couldn't do the math involved in building projects, for example. Or rather, he could, but he was wrong and didn't understand why. We switched to Singapore, and it solved the problem. Singapore has worked both for my math-bright youngest, and my more math-struggling middle one. It has its drawbacks, too, though. It needs to be taught, at least for my chidlren.

 

HTH

-Nan

[Jann in TX]

It was not MY style--but most of my students had excellent retention--understood the 'why' factor and went on seamlessly to college maths. I must add that my students tended to be NATURALS at math (engineering types).

[Brenda in MA]

It definately didn't work for my particular children. Lots of people use it perfectly happily, though.

 

We had two problems with Saxon. One was that it chopped a topic up into such small pieces that my children couldn't put them back together again to understand the concept. They just memorized the algorithm. You do this, and you do that, and that, and this bit here is the answer. The second was that I couldn't tell that it wasn't working. My children, having memorized the algorithm, could answer the book questions right, so I didn't know it wasn't working for us until the oldest tried a different program in public high school, and we began to discover that the middle one couldn't apply any of his math to real life situations or math problems other than those in Saxon.

 

These are the exact problems that we had with the Saxon upper level books. My oldest used Algebra 1, 2, and half of Advanced Math before I realized there was a problem. I began to see that he couldn't apply his math to his chemistry problems. He was able to do well on the Saxon tests by memorizing the Saxon algorithms. I stuck with Saxon for a long time because he needed/needs repetition.

 

After I knew there was a problem, I switched him to Chalkdust for PreCalc, and the "light began to come on". He gained a tremendous amount of understanding that he was just missing with Saxon.

 

I am using Dolciani with my younger son this year, and I really love this book. It's very challenging, and the problems are asked in many different ways that promote understanding. I do teach him the lessons, but they tend to be short, and there is a mixed review section at the end of every lesson that I have him do. I might have tried Chalkdust for Algebra 1, but I was given these Dolciani books by a retired math teacher.

 

Best wishes in your search for a program that "fits" your child,

Brenda

[anissarobert]

My dd loves Saxon. She dislikes math, and the incremental approach is a good fit for her.

 

Nan's post scares me though. Other than the Iowa test she has had very little exposure to other texts. She is just now starting Algebra 2, and I bought the Teaching Tapes, (not the DIVE CD's but the new ones that teach every lesson.) She is doing very well on the Saxon tests, and since Saxon can be bought used, I have only been paying $10-15 per year for the texts, which is a real help. I hope Chemistry is not a problem next year.

[ma23peas]

We have used Saxon up through 8/7...we're kind of at the point where we say, enough. It was great up to this point but we need a change and to take on a more mastery approach. So, we just bought Life of Fred....I bought it mainly (inexpensive) because it's the only one I could find that was in black and white...most of the other textbooks have so many colors/pictures/busy stuff that it easily distracts my son...he's very much an auditory learner and needs minimal distraction, hence why we loved Saxon..just black and white. I am thinking I'll have to augment LOF with some additional problems, but to be honest, I think I'm just going to get ACT/SAT practice tests and assign problems that are from their Algebra portion...hoping someone has already sectioned those out...and make sure we have hit all the possible problems that may pop up....

 

I have read nothing but great responses to LOF so I thought I'd give it a try...I really do like it.

 

Tara

[Mandy in TN]

My oldest used saxon through 76. My middle ds used saxon/ singapore through 87/6b.

 

With my oldest I wish I had bailed on saxon sooner and with my second I think that he would have been better served by staying with the program.

 

I personally detest the jumping all over the place and swore that I wouldn't use saxon with my little guy. However, since he is using Kumon math which is very linear, I decided that he needed some spiral review to aid in retention. Instead of buying another spiral program (I really considered Horizons, because it is a workbook.), I pulled the saxon out of the homeschool closet. I must have liked it more than I want to admit, because I didn't get rid of it.:001_huh:

 

IMHO, it definitely depends on the child and whether the child will be exposed to math outside of saxon.

 

Mandy

[Michelle in MO]

"love it or hate it" type of program. Some kids do very well with Saxon's incremental approach. My girls did not fare well with the way the lessons were organized. We used it one year and then switched to Lial's.

[Moni]

We use Saxon.

(I own the SaxonTeacher product also, fyi. I was curious so I bought it)

 

We use Saxon self-learning, self-teaching though.

Every problem, every book.

For every missed problem, the students makes their own "corrections," meaning they re-do any missed problems (until all problems are 100% correct).

So the student's brain receives the benefit of each problem, of all the instruction/reading in the Textbook.

 

Each problem has a Reference (#) next to it to refer back to for re-reading, re-learning. (...for Algebra-2 get 3rd Edition...)

 

Yes, the problems do get more comprehensive/complicated and tend to not look "just like the example" problem in the Instruction-Section of that past lesson, but if the student has been reworking his own missed problems (not mother working the problem with student watching:glare:) then the progression of problem complexity in Saxon is actually rather smooth. If the student is reading and grappling with on his own the Lecture/Instruction parts of the lessons, the progression can be , again, rather smooth.

 

If the student is just viewing the Worked Example problems in the Instruction portion of the text and omitting reading the written text part of the instructions, then they are going to have a harder time as the book progresses.

I suppose that's why self-learning self-teaching works well with Saxon.

 

And we've always used Saxon "to mastery."

 

If my students start missing more than a few problems, we repeat lessons and/or repeat this week's assignments next week, for good measure. My goal is facility with the daily math . . . .not getting through the book by June, not going to the next lesson just because it's Tomorrow.

 

So while Saxon may be "hard" (it certainly is comprehensive), that is okay with me.

I find that the students do practice the same concept over and over, in the following days, with increasing complexity. I like that. :)

 

:seeya:

Edited November 19, 2008 by Moni

[Moni]

I began to see that he couldn't apply his math to his chemistry problems.

 

http://tinyurl.com/BridgeMath

 

Just a link fyi in case it is of interest to anyone

 

:seeya:

Edited November 19, 2008 by Moni