Feingold Diet

[Guest]

Has anyone tried or is following the Feingold diet currently with their children? I am just wondering if there are others here that have tried it and what the results were. I have read that there's a certain percentage of children that it does actually help. I am seeing that I'm onto something with my youngest and I am currently reading All Natural Mom's Guide to the Feingold Diet while seriously considering giving it a try officially. I cut colors, preservatives, and additives years ago. I see a link with him with salicylates. Since I reduced the amount we eat daily, I have seen a noticeable difference in his focus and hyperactivity, but I haven't completely removed the moderate and high salicylate foods. This boy has always been afffected by food and we saw several benefits from the gfcf diet (still on it). I am thinking he will likely benefit from this diet, so for now, I am reading about it and trying to decide. 

Any experiences to share?

[nature girl]

We tried for a couple of months, but I didn't see any improvement in my daughter. She's never really shown any sensitivity to foods, though, so I don't think her issues are gut/intolerance-related. With that said, I know there are some children who have seen great improvement...I've never comfortable with the idea of removing sals, so many healthy foods! But it might be worth a try to see how far you can go. I know ASD can be directly related to gut issues, which is why removing gluten and casein so often helps.

It might also make sense to look into ways to heal the gut to reduce/remove the sensitivity. It seems like getting to the root of the problem makes the most sense for the long-term. (You can look into the Nemechek protocol to eliminate inflammation, there are hundreds of kids who have improved through Nemechek, or at foods like bone broth and natural probiotics.)

[Guest]

Thank you for sharing, Nature Girl!

I shared your concern about cutting the salicylates, until I noticed that you are supposed to pick only from the low salicylates group (not cut them out entirely) and only for a few weeks. You are looking for 6-8 weeks of improvements, and then you start reintroducing foods from the moderate and high groups, one at a time. This is what made me look into it further. I am trying to decide whether the monetary investment in order to get the Feingold resources is a worthwhile decision. I am leaning towards it being a worthwhile investment in our case. I am actually considering the diet, not for the ASD but for the ADHD. I am looking at every natural angle I can try that may help my son. This is a diet, so it is food based, and this is why I am interested. 

The Nemecheck protocol is not something I am interested in. There was a long thread on that (last year?) and I expressed my thoughts back then. Those have remained the same. I am actually considering perhaps cutting out the supplements and replacing them entirely with food, rather than increasing to higher doses. We only take probiotics, fish oil, and iron; all in low doses. 

[Crimson Wife]

Our integrative neurodevelopmental pediatrician had us try a LOT of different diets back when my DD was first seeing him in 2012-2013. Feingold was one of those.

We didn't see any improvement with any of the various diets over regular gluten-, casein-, and soy-free that we were already doing due to non-celiac gluten intolerance. Low phenol actually made things WORSE (I think because so many of the high phenol foods are also high in antioxidants) but that quickly reversed when I added back in the produce we'd eliminated.

That said, we now know that my daughter's autism is part of a rare genetic neurological syndrome. Her mutation causes a particular brain protein to be misshapen. So while it is still considered autism, it's a specific subtype like Rhett Syndrome or Fragile X Syndrome (only much rarer).

[Pawz4me]

My niece (now 22, ADHD) was on it for a long time with good results when she was younger.

[Pen]

Avoiding the dyes preservatives etc part of Feingold makes a huge difference for my ds!

We basically go with organic or naturally produced foods even if not certified organic, and mostly made from “scratch “ foods, so that pretty much takes care of those items when he is home. When he goes out with friends and sports teams it is a problem. 

He is extremely, extremely reactive to sugar even though so far as I know it is not forbidden on Feingold. 

I am not so sure about the salicylate group. We have black berries and blueberries and apples all growing here. So far as I can tell even if he eats a lot of those he is fine. Including that we did some dyslexia remediation interspersed with fruit picking and eating and he seemed to do really well with that.  

However, Apple — even if homemade—juice both causes him to have abdominal pain and hyper behaviors as with sugar.  It could be both  the sugar and the salicylates are very potent in juice form. 

[Crimson Wife]

There's a book I read years ago that was very helpful in laying out all the various diets. I think it might have been this one but I'm not 100% sure: https://www.jkp.com/uk/dietary-interventions-in-autism-spectrum-disorders-2.html

[Guest]

Thank you everyone for your replies. I am still doing some research and did an experiment with my son. I will share more tomorrow. 

Crimson Wife, congratulations on the little one that you are expecting. Just noticed it ?. I had come across the case with your daughter while I was lurking. That was interesting and proved your gut instinct. I wish we were years in the future, when they may have hopefully found specific paths/ plans of action that might lead to better outcomes for specific profiles! 

More tomorrow...

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Crimson Wife said:

There's a book I read years ago that was very helpful in laying out all the various diets. I think it might have been this one but I'm not 100% sure: https://www.jkp.com/uk/dietary-interventions-in-autism-spectrum-disorders-2.html

Crimson Wife, thank you for this! My library system appears to have a copy, so I put it on hold. It is out at the moment. I should have it by the end of the month. I hope it was the one you read, but either way, it looks like something I would be curious to read. 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

My niece (now 22, ADHD) was on it for a long time with good results when she was younger.

Thank you so much for sharing this, Pawz4me! It's good to know that there are those that have seen positive results from the diet. 

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Crimson Wife said:

Our integrative neurodevelopmental pediatrician had us try a LOT of different diets back when my DD was first seeing him in 2012-2013. Feingold was one of those.

We didn't see any improvement with any of the various diets over regular gluten-, casein-, and soy-free that we were already doing due to non-celiac gluten intolerance. Low phenol actually made things WORSE (I think because so many of the high phenol foods are also high in antioxidants) but that quickly reversed when I added back in the produce we'd eliminated.

That said, we now know that my daughter's autism is part of a rare genetic neurological syndrome. Her mutation causes a particular brain protein to be misshapen. So while it is still considered autism, it's a specific subtype like Rhett Syndrome or Fragile X Syndrome (only much rarer).

That is interesting! Yes, I had boosted the antioxidants here, mostly in the form of berries. It was what I used for my experiment (mostly). My son was asking for berries, yesterday. I had been giving him very few here and there the past few days and only one type each time. We all love berries! Since I have been looking into this I decided to see what would happen if I let him have the fruits he wanted, which were all on the high salicylate list. He had about two cups worth (cherries, strawberries, blueberries, apple, some almonds, and a teaspoon of peanut butter. He also asked for some coconut milk but didn't finish it (it was his first time trying it so I guess he didn't like it). Within a short time he started getting restless. He was walking back and forth from room to room looking for something to do. When he is like that he usually gets himself into trouble (flooding or making a mess in the bathroom is one of his favorites). Yup, we have to reenact the Biblical flood in our bathroom! I was right behind him the whole time. At some point he turned around and said to me "Mom, you need to take the dogs out.". This translates to, "Mom, I am about to do something I know you won't like so take the dogs out while I am at it". He was not like this on the days I had reduced the salicylates. He gets like this on certain days and I have never been able to figure out what triggers it, but always felt it may have something to do with food. I ate the exact same things he did and so did my oldest. We each had our own reactions. For the past couple of years my oldest has developed sinus problems and now I am wondering if this has anything to do with it. 

Anyway, we shall see...

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Pen said:

Avoiding the dyes preservatives etc part of Feingold makes a huge difference for my ds!

We basically go with organic or naturally produced foods even if not certified organic, and mostly made from “scratch “ foods, so that pretty much takes care of those items when he is home. When he goes out with friends and sports teams it is a problem. 

He is extremely, extremely reactive to sugar even though so far as I know it is not forbidden on Feingold. 

I am not so sure about the salicylate group. We have black berries and blueberries and apples all growing here. So far as I can tell even if he eats a lot of those he is fine. Including that we did some dyslexia remediation interspersed with fruit picking and eating and he seemed to do really well with that.  

However, Apple — even if homemade—juice both causes him to have abdominal pain and hyper behaviors as with sugar.  It could be both  the sugar and the salicylates are very potent in juice form. 

Yes, we saw a big difference when we cut dyes, preservatives, additives... but also from the gluten and casein free diet. We eat organic for the most part and our meat comes from good sources. I cook from scratch as well and only occasionally buy prepackaged goods (always gluten free/ certified organic etc.). I limit sugar as well. He gets a sugar rush just like the reaction he had to the fruit, but I do use unpasteurized honey. I even changed the juice we buy to make sure all the juice he drinks has no sugar added and no sugar substitutes. We mostly buy berry juices naturally sweetened, apple juice, and orange juice. 

We grow some of our own as well. I have a fruit and vegetable garden growing and if we start now most of what we are growing will be wasted. We planted two apple trees last year so we won't be getting apples for a few years. I want to add some pears. Thankfully, those are low on salicylates. He has been asking for a cherry tree and he has been growing an apple seed, which he plans to plant in the garden. Oh boy! I am thinking of growing the little apple tree into a bonsai tree LOL. 

I have been wondering about the naturally occuring sugars in juice as well. Most apples are high on salicylates, except for golden and red delicious. He likes all apples so that could work, and we can stay away from apple juice. 

I am thinking of starting it after our growing season is over. In the meantime I'll just read as much as I can about it. I have tons of everbearing raspberries, everbearing strawberries, and blueberries growing. It wouldn't be fair to have to tell them sorry you can't have. 

[Pen]

It also could be that since we have fruits growing here we tend to be seasonal fruit eaters so there is a yearly time of around 7 to 8 months from end of apple season to start of wild strawberries (which many years we miss so then none till first blueberries) when we are mostly away from most of the salicylate foods—without doing it as officially “Feingold “.  That might work for you too to enjoy fruit now while it is growing but then except for maybe a rare special treat,  not again till next year.  Also having to pick the fruit I think is a help  

****Juice itself, even if no sugar is added, gives an enormous sugar rush  *****

Try to see That Sugar Movie which is done in a way as to be understandable by many kids. 

I am not using any added sugar at all currently, not even honey    I did not completely purge all sugar. There is some honey and other sugar containing sweetener in the house still that my ds can use if he wants to bake but he has to do it himself    Honey and molasses contain some antioxidants, minerals, etc that refined white sugar does not, but the sugar in them is still sugar  

 

 

Btw, Beware of fruit trees in the garden. We have some fruit trees growing like weeds and shading out our vegetables area.  

Think maybe 2 pears, 2 cherries that can pollinate each other but be careful where you put them 

 

[Pen]

When you IIRC wrote of investing in Feingold what did you mean? It seems like it is a free set of guidelines to use if one wishes. 

 

Also so to add, my ds does better I think if fruit follows a full meal — pick it yourself dessert— with plenty of protein and fat

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Crimson Wife said:

There's a book I read years ago that was very helpful in laying out all the various diets. I think it might have been this one but I'm not 100% sure: https://www.jkp.com/uk/dietary-interventions-in-autism-spectrum-disorders-2.html

I was just looking at the toc and realized I don't want to wait. It has way too much information I could use! I found it at a decent price and bought it on Google Play Books. Now I'll be juggling three books. Have I seen you recommend Lintala's book, The Un-Prescription for Autism? I had not read it start to finish so I am reading that now as well. 

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Pen said:

When you IIRC wrote of investing in Feingold what did you mean? It seems like it is a free set of guidelines to use if one wishes. 

 

Also so to add, my ds does better I think if fruit follows a full meal — pick it yourself dessert— with plenty of protein and fat

 

https://feingold.org/shop/

I didn't realize either! I read about it in the All Natural Mom's Guide to the Feingold Diet. I haven't had the time to check all the resources but apparently one of the books is a 400 pg. list of products sold in North America and what they contain, I guess, in form of salicylates, dyes, etc.

Yes, what you said makes sense! I can see it having a lesser effect if he has already had a meal. Usually our fruit salads are snacks here, and I sometimes make a peanut butter dip to go with it. 

[Pen]

Oh!  I had no idea there was all that stuff for sale. 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Pen said:

It also could be that since we have fruits growing here we tend to be seasonal fruit eaters so there is a yearly time of around 7 to 8 months from end of apple season to start of wild strawberries (which many years we miss so then none till first blueberries) when we are mostly away from most of the salicylate foods—without doing it as officially “Feingold “.  That might work for you too to enjoy fruit now while it is growing but then except for maybe a rare special treat,  not again till next year.  Also having to pick the fruit I think is a help  

****Juice itself, even if no sugar is added, gives an enormous sugar rush  *****

Try to see That Sugar Movie which is done in a way as to be understandable by many kids. 

I am not using any added sugar at all currently, not even honey    I did not completely purge all sugar. There is some honey and other sugar containing sweetener in the house still that my ds can use if he wants to bake but he has to do it himself    Honey and molasses contain some antioxidants, minerals, etc that refined white sugar does not, but the sugar in them is still sugar  

 

 

Btw, Beware of fruit trees in the garden. We have some fruit trees growing like weeds and shading out our vegetables area.  

Think maybe 2 pears, 2 cherries that can pollinate each other but be careful where you put them 

 

Sigh! We have been buying organic frozen berries in the winter for pancakes and I also add them in oatmeal with bananas. I may need to rethink certain things! I will be reintroducing, just like the diet says, but I fear that some may be problematic overall. We shall see! I can reduce some of the raspberries. We have too many of those growing! 

I give them half a glass of juice with their fish oil and another half with the iron (liquid form, natural). The fish oil is not a problem, but the iron... I don't know. 

I hadn't heard of that movie before. I'll check it out. 

I use molasses, honey, and organic raw sugar. That's primarily for baking but they do have peanut butter and honey on bread too. 

Thankfully, we have the raised beds closer to the house. the trees are in the back closer to the fence. They are not near the raised beds at all. 

We have quite a bit of space in the back. We could fit four trees. My hubby wants a cherry tree. So do I, actually. I love when they blossom! We do have some things planned for back there too though, so we shall see! 

Thank you for sharing suggestions, Pen ?!

[Crimson Wife]

51 minutes ago, Moved On said:

I was just looking at the toc and realized I don't want to wait. It has way too much information I could use! I found it at a decent price and bought it on Google Play Books. Now I'll be juggling three books. Have I seen you recommend Lintala's book, The Un-Prescription for Autism? I had not read it start to finish so I am reading that now as well. 

I don't believe I've read that one. It's got a copyright date of 2016 and I was in the middle of my 2nd bachelor's then so not a lot of time for free reading. Amazon had some cheap used copies available so I bought one for my reference. It looks similar to Dr. Kenneth Bock's Healing the New Childhood Epidemics, which is one of my favorites but a bit dated at this point (copyright 2007).

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Crimson Wife said:

I don't believe I've read that one. It's got a copyright date of 2016 and I was in the middle of my 2nd bachelor's then so not a lot of time for free reading. Amazon had some cheap used copies available so I bought one for my reference. It looks similar to Dr. Kenneth Bock's Healing the New Childhood Epidemics, which is one of my favorites but a bit dated at this point (copyright 2007).

Oh, yes! I am a big fan of Dr. Bock's LOL! I own his book too. I read that many years ago, around the time we started the gfcf diet. It would have been around 6 years ago. Are you going to make me reread that one too now ?!

[Guest]

Getting it off the bookcase to look up what he has to say about the Feingold diet ? I can't remember much after 6 years. The gfcf diet was my main focus back then, and some supplements. 

[Pen]

I don’t know if any cherry varieties can self pollinate. I think you may have to have 2 trees of 2 different varieties that can pollinate each other to get fruit.  Also make sure they bloom at same time in your area. Even if in theory they can pollinate each other if they don’t bloom at same time you won’t get much fruit. 

[Pen]

Unless you only want the cherry blossoms. 

 

I wish we had raspberries I could never get them to grow. Do you have a secret?

[Pen]

They need supplemental iron?  I have so cast iron cookware, but mostly am tryouts to avoid iron. 

Can they swallow a small multi vitamin?

 

[Pen]

Sigh. Autocorrect 

 

mostly I try to avoid iron in supplements etc. 

 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Pen said:

I don’t know if any cherry varieties can self pollinate. I think you may have to have 2 trees of 2 different varieties that can pollinate each other to get fruit.  Also make sure they bloom at same time in your area. Even if in theory they can pollinate each other if they don’t bloom at same time you won’t get much fruit. 

When we bought our home there was a cherry tree at the front. It grew cherries but I didn't like how they looked so never tasted them. The birds were very appreciative though ? We ended up cutting it down, then later completely uprooting it to plant other trees. I can't really say that I know if you need two. If you had asked me a year ago I would have told you I didn't know that about apples either LOL! 

23 minutes ago, Pen said:

Unless you only want the cherry blossoms. 

 

I wish we had raspberries I could never get them to grow. Do you have a secret?

No, no, we all love cherries! I just like the fact that it blossoms too. 

LOL, move up here! They grow like weeds! We started with one small plant and it grew from there. We had to cut back some stalks. Thankfully we planted it in a raised bed or it would have taken over our yard. We haven't bought any more beyond that first one. 

[Pen]

 

I looked it up  

“Stella, Black Gold and North Star sweet cherries are self-pollinating. All of the remaining varieties must have a cultivar of a different type to pollinate successfully.”

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Pen said:

They need supplemental iron?  I have so cast iron cookware, but mostly am tryouts to avoid iron. 

Can they swallow a small multi vitamin?

 

 

40 minutes ago, Pen said:

Sigh. Autocorrect 

 

mostly I try to avoid iron in supplements etc. 

 

Oldest was deficient. His growth slowed down until we started the supplements. Then he just shot up after that. We need to run blood work again, soon. Youngest had slightly low ferritin. I give them less that the doctor recommended. 

My main reason is that I don't like the additives they put in supplements in order to form them into pills, capsules etc. It's not a swallowing issue. The oldest swallows Advil and Tylenol when he needs to. The youngest just hates taking anything! I can assure you he would be quite capable of swallowing a pill. It took a while for him to get used to the iron. Thankfully, this one does not taste bad. It does say that it may stain their teeth though. This is another reason why I put it in juice. He would never drink it in water!

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Pen said:

 

I looked it up  

“Stella, Black Gold and North Star sweet cherries are self-pollinating. All of the remaining varieties must have a cultivar of a different type to pollinate successfully.”

I'll have to check the varieties before hubby surprises me with one LOL. Thankfully, we have a good nursery and he does ask questions. We are new to growing. This is our fourth season now? We still have a lot to learn!

[Pen]

7 minutes ago, Moved On said:

 

Oldest was deficient. His growth slowed down until we started the supplements. Then he just shot up after that. We need to run blood work again, soon. Youngest had slightly low ferritin. I give them less that the doctor recommended. 

My main reason is that I don't like the additives they put in supplements in order to form them into pills, capsules etc. It's not a swallowing issue. The oldest swallows Advil and Tylenol when he needs to. The youngest just hates taking anything! I can assure you he would be quite capable of swallowing a pill. It took a while for him to get used to the iron. Thankfully, this one does not taste bad. It does say that it may stain their teeth though. This is another reason why I put it in juice. He would never drink it in water!

 

New Chapter has a “tiny tabs” multi vitamin with quite good ingredients, I think. It has 3mg iron but that may not be enough for them since they tested low. 

 

[Guest]

Apparently there are some varieties of pears that self-pollinate as well! The Stark Honeysweet Pear is one of them. We like pears too though so I would much rather have two pears (especially since they appear to be low on salicylates) than two cherries. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Pen said:

 

New Chapter has a “tiny tabs” multi vitamin with quite good ingredients, I think. It has 3mg iron but that may not be enough for them since they tested low. 

 

Youngest takes 10mg, oldest I try to give 20mg. Sometimes we forget the second dose since I space them out, including the fish oil and probiotics. The one the doctor recommended went up to 45mg and she had recommended to give him the full 45. I didn't like the idea and that one had other ingredients to make it into powder form so I switched it. The youngest refused to take that one. He hated the taste!

[Guest]

I realized that while I mentioned it in another thread, I neglected to mention here that the evidence on the effectiveness of the Feingold (and other elimination diets) remains anecdotal. 

I also wanted to point out, and it has probably become apparent to most from what has been mentioned so far in this thread, that it is only effective for a certain precentage of children. 

I just wanted to clarify these two points. I have also taken the time to type out something from Dr. Bock's book, Healing the New Childhood Epidemics, because I felt that some on this board may find this information useful. This is a quote directly from the book:

Quote

I was more interested in natural, innovative approaches that seemed to solve the underlying problems. The premiere natural approach back then was the Feingold Diet, which is still extremely popular. It was aimed mainly at restricting food additives, along with the natural food chemical called salicylate, which is found in a number of seemingly healthy foods, such as green peppers and mushrooms, which cause reactions in some people. The science behind this diet seemed a little fuzzy to me at the time, but parents and kids said it worked, and I couldn’t ignore that. I’ve often thought that there are two basic types of doctors: those who listen to their patients, and those who don’t. I’ve always said, if you don’t listen, you won’t hear, and if you don’t look, you won’t see. So I tried the Feingold Diet, and got relatively good results in some children.

 Now, all these years later, I think I’ve figured out why restricting salicylates has been so helpful to many ADHD kids. It’s not just because of the old theory that salicylates are frequently allergenic, but also because they are closely related to another natural food chemical called phenol. Phenols can cause physical, cognitive, and behavioral problems in people who have impairment of the natural detoxifying process of sulfation. Sulfation is closely related to methylation, and is often impaired in kids with autism and ADHD.

 Now here’s where this whole thing gets even more interesting: Methylation doesn’t just help break down toxins. It also helps break down neurotransmitters. Therefore, it helps break down dopamine. And therefore, it helps ADHD kids with autistic features get rid of their excess dopamine, which is a terrible problem for so many of them, as it was for Alisa.

 This more highly individualized, dietary way of treating ADHD is still not the standard approach that’s taught in most medical schools. It’s something doctors generally have to learn on their own. I would never have learned it if I hadn’t simply listened to my patients.

 In a larger sense, I was also learning at this time to listen to the wisdom of the body. I was finding that if I gave patients the full spectrum of metabolic resources that their bodies needed, their bodies’ own phenomenal forces of self-correction and detoxification would remedy most of the root problems, and empower their healing process.

- Healing the New Childhood Epidemics by Kenneth. Bock, M.D., and Cameron Stauth pg. 86-87

Note: The italicized text is from the book. 

I also wanted to clarify that I am not looking to encourage anyone to try this diet. I am researching it and wanted to add some of what I have found for those that may feel it is worth looking into for their own children. 

[Guest]

Pen, from the Feingold website, since we discussed apple juice:

- What's wrong with apple juice?

https://feingold.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Whatswrongwithapplejuice-1.pdf

[Guest]

Some symptoms from the All Natural Mom website. There are more, like asthma. Something that might be worth looking into for some!

Quote

Here are some other common reactions to sal’s:  Reddening of the ears or face, depression, moodiness, meanness, grouchiness, mood swings, irritability, chronic fatigue, mental and physical sluggishness, upset stomach, bladder incontinence, night wetting, eye muscle disorders, short attention span, inability to concentrate, poor self image, fidgety, temper flare ups (tantrums), distractibility. 

...

The most common reaction to radical salicylates are hyperactivity and all symptoms associated with ADHD, and then some. 

Here's the direct link:

http://www.allnaturalmomof4.com/2009/11/back-to-feingold-stage-1.html

[Guest]

Another list of symptoms for anyone that may find it useful:

https://www.chicagoparent.com/archives/salicylates/

OK, now off to read and enjoy the rest of the summer ?

[Kanin]

I read a blog by a mom who has a son with autism. I think he’s about 9 or 10 now. She’s a great writer, and I enjoy following her journey. Anywho, she does a lot with diet, and experimenting with things- salicylates were something she wrote about, too. I’m not sure if she’s still doing low-sal, but I bet you could email her.

https://findingmykid.com/tag/salicylates/

[Guest]

Thank you, Mainer. I checked out the lady's blog a bit and I am thinking she is likely not following the diet anymore. I was just looking for experiences to see if there are kids that have been helped with the diet. I am reading that there are and also looking at what makes sense for my kids. I already mentioned that there is only a certain percentage that the diet helps, and I linked information from Dr. Bock's book and from others saying that. I don't do social media and even have my PM turned off, here. I just read books and mostly check out blogs/ websites of book authors whose books I read. I usually just stick to my research ?.

[Crimson Wife]

The integrative neurodevelopmental pediatrician we see is a professor at UCSF Medical School and he told me that in his experience, diet can play a big role in helping with ADHD and autism symptoms but it's totally hit-or-miss with each individual. He cannot predict which diet (if any) will help any particular patient of his so he just has a list of things to try. Feingold is one, low phenol another, etc., etc. For my DD, nothing seemed to help beyond simply eliminating gluten, casein, and soy protein (which we'd already figured out prior to seeing him).

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Crimson Wife said:

The integrative neurodevelopmental pediatrician we see is a professor at UCSF Medical School and he told me that in his experience, diet can play a big role in helping with ADHD and autism symptoms but it's totally hit-or-miss with each individual. He cannot predict which diet (if any) will help any particular patient of his so he just has a list of things to try. Feingold is one, low phenol another, etc., etc. For my DD, nothing seemed to help beyond simply eliminating gluten, casein, and soy protein (which we'd already figured out prior to seeing him).

Yes, this is the conclusion I have come to from what I have been reading.

Since it is food based I'm not concerned about it harming them, so I'll just keep being careful to give them small amounts of the high level salicylates for now, and we can start officially in the fall. This will give me the opportunity to find recipes, decide what I'm getting from the Feingold website, and finish reading my resources.

It's been over 48hours since the test and we have focused primarily on low salicylates. My son is back to normal again, however, I'm still experiencing stomach upset. They seem to affect my youngest and me the most, but I'll get a better idea after we start officially. 

[Pen]

The thoughts in one of your links about organic plants producing more salicylate because they are coping with more bugs is interesting. 

In addition to salicylate and phenol issues, shelf stable juices IIRC develop something related to formaldehyde as they sit. Currants apparently have this even when fresh. It has been thought by one a bit on the edge (not sure if cutting edge positive or fringe negative—I guess time will tell) that this makes a lot of conditions worse. I can’t recall about ADD and ASD, but MS was one and anything neurological which could include lots of LDs.  And the worse detoxification pathways are apparently the harder it is to excrete the formaldehyde-like substance. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Pen said:

In addition to salicylate and phenol issues, shelf stable juices IIRC develop something related to formaldehyde as they sit. Currants apparently have this even when fresh. It has been thought by one a bit on the edge (not sure if cutting edge positive or fringe negative—I guess time will tell) that this makes a lot of conditions worse. I can’t recall about ADD and ASD, but MS was one and anything neurological which could include lots of LDs.  And the worse detoxification pathways are apparently the harder it is to excrete the formaldehyde-like substance. 

I hadn't heard about it but here's what I found:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/naked-juices-and-smoothies-formaldehyde/

And here's something on the settlement:

http://fortune.com/2017/02/21/pepsico-labels-naked-juice-lawsuit/

We have been buying primarily refrigerated juices and the boys are already switched over to taking their fish oil with a spoon. Now I just have to work out the iron. Our current iron is natural and derived primarily by what else? Berries! We will see what their bloodwork shows when we get the testing done.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Pen said:

The thoughts in one of your links about organic plants producing more salicylate because they are coping with more bugs is interesting. 

Her thinking made some sense to me so I looked it up and found this:

http://www.australianallergycentre.com.au/organic-foods-not-necessarily-better-for-food-intolerances/

[Pen]

 

No  It is not about a particular company  

I am having trouble linking relevant sites, but I don’t think it is working  

look up professor Monte from Universities of Arizona    And someone at Harvard apparently has confirmed some of the research.  

 

 

human-methanol-formaldehyde-toxicity-wc-monte-paradigm-rich-murrayuman-methanol-formaldehyde-toxicity-wc-monte-paradigm-rich-murray

 

human methanol (formaldehyde) toxicity -- WC Monte paradigm

[Guest]

I'm sorry, Pen, you lost me now! This sounds like conspiracy theories with a heavy dose of self-interest from those putting it out there. You could look into it if it's important to you! I tend to focus my research in areas that are in some way linked to me and my family. Then I look at the source.

[Guest]

Pen, here are studies I found attributed to Woodrow C. Monte (and others):

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Woodrow_Monte2

You can scroll down and look through them. It seems his studies have been blown out of proportion and his primary emphasis has been on Aspartame.

[Guest]

And here's why nothing came of it since 2015:

- Chemistry debunks the biggest aspartame health myths

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/aspartame-isnt-bad-says-chemistry

[Guest]

Funny thing? Even though we have bought our kids juice, at times, that contained cane sugar, we have never bought them anything with sugar substitutes. Not now and not before we knew they were on the spectrum ?.

[Guest]

I decided that I want to do this the right way and that this does appear to have relevance for my family, so I proceeded with the purchase of the resources.

[Guest]

I will not be making this into a long thread updating on our progress. I am still experimenting, getting ready to start after our growing season ends. I have seen the difference in my son's hyperactivity, focus, and sleep among other things, and I have also seen some less obvious changes in my oldest as well. The experimenting has proven to me that we do have issues with salicylates and that following the diet is a wise decision in our case.

The main reason I am posting, though, is not to share progress and my findings, but rather to point out to those that have tried or are trying the diet through free resources and websites, that there's a lot of contradictory information out there. Before getting the membership and gaining access to the food and shopping lists from Feingold, I had started eliminating foods like dates, figs, and coconut, having read in a website that they were high on salicylates. Well, the Feingold Food List has all three of those in stage 1 of the diet, meaning the acceptable foods to start out the diet with.

This is something I felt compelled to share as it is so important when we are saying, I followed the Feingold diet, but the person is not using official resources from Feingold. And the results, naturally, will not be the same.