Anyone else really like Writing and Rhetoric?

[lgliser]

I feel like I've seen a mix of positive and negative reviews. We are in Chreia and we've really enjoyed all of the books so far.

 

I was curious who else was liking it and planning on continuing with it all the way through.

 

Also curious if you don't like it, why?

[PeterPan]

Hmm, I haven't looked at all the new stuff for 10 years, so just on a whim (since you like it so much!) I looked this up. There are some really nice things about it! Ok, I'm only looking at the first fable book. It looks like they've written their own models instead of using older, more stiff, beyond copyright material. By writing their own models their able to step up the level of analysis and make it much more engaging. My dd would have enjoyed this! It seems very engaging for a capable LA student.

 

Down sides? Not as much repetition of concepts, not as much gentle progression for slower students. Very sophisticated language requirements. Someone like my ds, with ASD, might be snowed. Like I'd LIKE this to be in reach for him, and it's not right now. Also they're not bringing in multi-sensory or even trying. No games, no color, not much to inspire the teacher for ways to adapt it to be more multisensory for kids who need that. Or maybe it's in the tm? I could go look. Like you have Writing Tales, which to me was a gold standard, and the lady had taught it enough in co-op settings that she really had something to appeal to EVERY type of learn, not just one niched type.

 

CAP is pretty niched in their style already, so it's not a shock that this product is either. So I like some things about it a lot, but I can see why some people are not finding it a good fit. It's a very high language demand here. My ds does on grade level or just slightly under grade level LA workbooks for the most part using materials that are keyed to Common Core (meaning I can literally say on grade level, not, because there's a number on the front), and this would be pretty challenging. But I like it, sure. 

 

The main thing, when you have something that is going well, is keep going till it stops working! That's so exciting to see such a high analysis, challenging product available for capable students. I'm not sure it's mainstream, but it definitely seems like it would be interesting and be really good at getting kids to think. Are your kids turning out nice stuff with it?

 

Fwiw, my dd is sort of an alternative thinker. She has ADHD and executive function deficits, so she really needed extra help to understand structure in writing, how to organize thoughts, etc. My feeling, as I looked into this years ago, was that she was going to be one who was well-served by a "toolbox" approach to writing. You've got your IEW/Jensens'/whatever stuff that is really scripted/formulaic, and then you've got this whole progymnasta, SWB/WWS, etc. approach with tools. I concluded that being able to ANALYZE writing and why it works and understand her tools would get her farther than formulas. She's doing pretty well this freshman year and got an A in a 300 level philosophy class with papers, boom. She's writing more this semester for some kind of philosophy and science class. 

 

So I think anything your kids are clicking with that is giving them TOOLS to analyze, to understand how more sophisticated writing works, is the way to go. Keep doing it.  :thumbup:

[Sneezyone]

We really like it here. DS is only on book 2, but I like that the material is thematically complex and engaging. DS cannot be bothered to do good work with standard on-grade writing prompts. They are meaningless/pointless to him but the exemplars in CAP make him think and consider in ways that we both appreciate. I also like that it's primarily written to the student. DS reads above grade level and he likes to do his work with as little mom-interference as possible so this is right up his alley. I go over his answers after he's left the room, lol, and can offer him praise/critiques without it disrupting his flow or making him re-do everything. He applies the feedback to his work going forward and we repeat the cycle. So far, so good.

 

I have heard that the jump between books 3 and 4 may be a bit big WRT outlining and essay-writing but we are working through SOTW4 w/the workbook and a few other resources this year. That should mitigate the risk of getting stuck there.

Edited February 21, 2018 by Sneezyone

[alisha]

So far, It's a really good fit for my ds. He's in 5th grade, not great writing, and we started at Narrative 1. He's really good at orally doing it, and coming up with the ideas within the framework. I often scribe for him, leaving the only writing he does as dictation. He is only just coming into writing on his own-not handwriting, just enough focus to think a though, get it all written down and ask about words he needs spelled (most of them). We'll see what he retains and uses down the line, but I'm liking it so far!

[purpleowl]

My girls have done Fable and are working on Narrative I. It is a great fit for our family, so far at least. I like the structure of the lessons and the structure of the books as a whole. The kids are engaged and enjoy the writing assignments. It is a stretch for my younger DD at times (which makes sense), but that shows up mainly in a lower level of sophistication in her writing. I'm actually very pleased with the level of stretch it is for her. For the older one, it's pretty much perfectly on target.

 

I tend to stick with what's working until I'm convinced it isn't, so right now the plan is to go all the way through with W&R. I am aware that some people like it at first and then stop liking it, so if it stops being a good fit, I'll figure out something else.

[Sneezyone]

We're on Chreia and Proverb, and it's the only book we've done so far. I've learned never to say we're going to do a whole series of something lol, but DS and I do both love it. It stretches him mentally, and he can spot a proverb from a mile away now... Then evaluate it and determine its oratorical usefulness :laugh:

We’re doing that one next year in conjunction with Wonder. Precept, proverb, poe-tae-toe, poe-tah-toe.😂

[Ms.Ivy]

We have been using it for a few years now and we love it. All my kids enjoy writing and I believe it is because we use W&R. It is my dream writing program. I do supplement with CtGE for additional mechanics, outlining practice, letter writing forms, etc. We definitely plan to finish the series.

[SilverMoon]

I adore the levels of W&R we have!  I'd totally use them again (and have) with another kiddo. My 4th kid was using them when they were first getting published, but she outgrew their production schedule. #5 is using some of them now.

 

But I've never found THE writing curriculum I'd swear to use all the way through. Kids and developmental stages are so different. What works for one kid in this season may not work next season or may make the next kid :banghead:.

[lgliser]

 

 

We’re doing that one next year in conjunction with Wonder. Precept, proverb, poe-tae-toe, poe-tah-toe.😂 

That is an awesome idea!

 

PeterPan, that is a good assessment - thanks!

 

 

[Kathryn]

My oldest is on Book 6, Commonplace. I *love* this program. Books 7 and 8 for next school year just came today. My oldest has high-functioning autism and this has been amazing for him. It has just the right amount of scaffolding and does not demand the creativity skills that he lacks.

[Insertcreativenamehere]

I do like it, but we have taken a break from it for now. We have used Fable, Narrative I and Narrative II. My 7th grader did most of Refutation and Confirmation this year and part of Commonplace. The higher books get VERY thick and I felt like he was spending more time reading than actually writing! He's likely to go to public school for 8th grade so I switched to Writing Skills 2 (by EPS) to work more specifically on the skills that he will need next year -- various essay types, mainly. 

 

My 5th grader finished Narrative I this year and it was a great fit for him - very incremental. However, I also had him take a break from W&R because I didn't want to get too far ahead of his writing stamina. I am strongly considering going back to it next year after we work on more nuts & bolts stuff with Writing Skills 1. 

 

I personally LOVE it and would love to see it through, but all of my kids are probably going to public in 8th or 9th grade. 

[Roadrunner]

We loved, loved the Fable level. Enjoyed the Narrative ones and couldn’t get passed the Chreia. I bought the level up, but something wasn’t clicking. I think for us we wanted a more “modern†approach to writing. I still have a hard time articulating what I mean by that, but somehow those W&R formulaic essays were really getting us. So we switched to WWS and ended up not happy there either. Now we just write essays about books we read and not working with curricula seems to be he best option for us.

I still think that the Fable books is a marvel.