Geometry online curriculum recently recommended here?

[madteaparty]

I think it was MarkT, and someone else besides, that mentioned a vaguely Canadian geometry curriculum website.

Of course, it’s well documented now that I can’t find a thread to save my life. I’ve googled, okay? :)

Anyone recall? We’ve hit a wall with thinkwell just towards the end and need to switch. Many thanks.

[MarkT]

I did mention UC Scout in the pinned Physics thread recently.

 

They also have 

UC Scout Geometry

https://www.ucscout.org/courses/geometry

 

The teacher led version cost some money and is synchronous.

The Basic version is available for free to California residents and only $19 for others.

[this is NOT a recommendation]

 

I will be reviewing the UC Scout Physics online course my DS just completed - soon

[MarkT]

some fairly recent threads:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/652713-geometry-help-mr-d-math-jacobs-or-other/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/653755-video-based-geometry-class/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/637858-light-geometry-to-use-alongside-2nd-pass-through-alg-1/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/641129-please-help-geometry-gurus/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/664218-math-u-see-geometry-online-live-coop-class/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/631257-thinkwell-geometry-do-i-need-holt-book-to-supplement/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/647177-lesson-plans-for-jurgensens-geometry/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/636151-mr-d-math/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/550651-favorite-online-geometry/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/414594-mep-math/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/555164-mep-geometry-confusion-trapeziums/

 

I did post here:

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/641563-thinkwell-geometry-too-easy/

 

Canada typically follows an Integrated Math sequence.

 

Was it this?

https://www.ctcmath.com/

[madteaparty]

Thanks. It was Unlock math. I still can’t see the posts where it was actually reviewed, but just having the name is great. Many many thanks!

[MarkT]

Thanks. It was Unlock math. I still can’t see the posts where it was actually reviewed, but just having the name is great. Many many thanks!

here

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/663614-solid-online-options-for-all-high-school-math-courses-lots-of-practice/

 

I asked about the rigor

 

 

UnLock Math, Peterborough, Ontario:

http://www.unlockmath.com/geometry

[Clear Creek]

I was one of the ones that mentioned it recently. If you have any questions, feel free to ask here or in PM. Right now they are offering a free 30 day trial, so you can try it out without committing to it; but it is only being offered through the month of December so don't wait too long.

[dereksurfs]

I did find some free samples of the lessons for those who may be interested in UnLock Math: https://www.unlockmath.com/unlock-math-videos

 

We'll be exploring several options for our middle dd's Geometry course next fall including TabletClass, Jann in TX and others which may be a good fit. This dd really struggles with math in general. The past 1.5 years with DO have actually been great for her overall, though still a challenge. We're looking for another vendor for Geometry.

[Roadrunner]

I did find some free samples of the lessons for those who may be interested in UnLock Math: https://www.unlockmath.com/unlock-math-videos

 

We'll be exploring several options for our middle dd's Geometry course next fall including TabletClass, Jann in TX and others which may be a good fit. This dd really struggles with math in general. The past 1.5 years with DO have actually been great for her overall, though still a challenge. We're looking for another vendor for Geometry.

May I ask why you are jumping ship for geometry? I have been contemplating DO for geometry for one of my kids.

[dereksurfs]

May I ask why you are jumping ship for geometry? I have been contemplating DO for geometry for one of my kids.

 

Sure, its based upon prior Hive members who have taken that specific DO course and had problems with it even though they enjoy all his other courses. There are some old threads on this topic from forum members whose opinions I respect. As with all courses and vendors, its a bit of a gamble since there is no one size fits all. I prefer to stack the cards in our favor as much as possible when selecting and take very seriously critical reviews. That's not to say there haven't been good reports as well. However, with this dd in particular I need to be very careful about math programs. Better to be safe than sorry later. kwim?

[madteaparty]

I did find some free samples of the lessons for those who may be interested in UnLock Math: https://www.unlockmath.com/unlock-math-videos

 

We'll be exploring several options for our middle dd's Geometry course next fall including TabletClass, Jann in TX and others which may be a good fit. This dd really struggles with math in general. The past 1.5 years with DO have actually been great for her overall, though still a challenge. We're looking for another vendor for Geometry.

DS doesn’t struggle with math, it’s just he needs a teacher and for geometry and up, I’d need to learn it alongside him. For geometry, he had been using thinkwell indipendenty, but when I sat down to review something, I realized not all the problems have a fully worked solution. So that’s why we are jumping that particular ship.

[dereksurfs]

DS doesn’t struggle with math, it’s just he needs a teacher and for geometry and up, I’d need to learn it alongside him. For geometry, he had been using thinkwell indipendenty, but when I sat down to review something, I realized not all the problems have a fully worked solution. So that’s why we are jumping that particular ship.

 

I highly recommend WHA and Derek Owens (except geometry) for high school math. Our oldest ds has used WHA for math from Geometry through AP Calculus (in it currently).  They've provided excellent instruction and a great overall experience. The only thing it doesn't work for is those students who want/need an asynchronous program. DO courses are excellent for that use case. WHA also tends be more on the rigorous side of the spectrum. So a struggling math student may have a harder time in keeping up. I've heard of several such cases.

[TarynB]

I have to chime in and say, my son completed Derek Owens geometry last year as a 9th grader (age 14). I had also read the negative reviews by one parent whose kid took DO geometry, so I was a bit wary and unsure at first, but we did not have a poor experience at all. Completely positive experience for us. It was entirely hands-off for me. When DS (infrequently) had a question or wanted to know more about something, he emailed and got a helpful response quickly. He had no trouble understanding the textbook (Jacobs 3rd edition) or the DO materials, practice problems, homework, tests, etc. Having the proofs graded (in addition to homework and tests) was a huge plus for me. For him, there was no disconnect between the materials assigned. (IIRC, the negative reviews might have come from someone whose child was accomplished and accelerated in math but younger than the typical age for taking geometry. Of course I don't know if that might have had anything to do with it. I don't doubt that anyone could have a negative experience. Any program might not be a good fit for a particular student.) Just our experience, YMMV!

 

ETA: If deciding between DO and another geometry program, I'd suggest getting a copy of Jacobs Geometry 3rd ed. (which is used in the DO course) and seeing how your DC likes it. It's a gentle form of discovery-based learning and the author has a humorous writing style. If that book/writing style doesn't resonate, move on. Jurgenson is another great choice.

Edited December 28, 2017 by TarynB

[madteaparty]

I highly recommend WHA and Derek Owens (except geometry) for high school math. Our oldest ds has used WHA for math from Geometry through AP Calculus (in it currently). They've provided excellent instruction and a great overall experience. The only thing it doesn't work for is those students who want/need an asynchronous program. DO courses are excellent for that use case. WHA also tends be more on the rigorous side of the spectrum. So a struggling math student may have a harder time in keeping up. I've heard of several such cases.

We don’t use WHA and I think DS would benefit from the live aspect (re: DO). We are going with a private teacher for algebra 2, but every year I revisit.

[dereksurfs]

I have to chime in and say, my son completed Derek Owens geometry last year as a 9th grader (age 14). I had also read the negative reviews by one parent whose kid took DO geometry, so I was a bit wary and unsure at first, but we did not have a poor experience at all. Completely positive experience for us. It was entirely hands-off for me. When DS (infrequently) had a question or wanted to know more about something, he emailed and got a helpful response quickly. He had no trouble understanding the textbook (Jacobs 3rd edition) or the DO materials, practice problems, homework, tests, etc. Having the proofs graded (in addition to homework and tests) was a huge plus for me. For him, there was no disconnect between the materials assigned. (IIRC, the negative reviews might have come from someone whose child was accomplished and accelerated in math but younger than the typical age for taking geometry. Of course I don't know if that might have had anything to do with it. I don't doubt that anyone could have a negative experience. Any program might not be a good fit for a particular student.) Just our experience, YMMV!

 

ETA: If deciding between DO and another geometry program, I'd suggest getting a copy of Jacobs Geometry 3rd ed. (which is used in the DO course) and seeing how your DC likes it. It's a gentle form of discovery-based learning and the author has a humorous writing style. If that book/writing style doesn't resonate, move on. Jurgenson is another great choice.

 

That's good to hear, TarynB. I have heard of others like your son not have a bad experience. Can you tell me how your son normally does with math overall? Does it come naturally to him, does he struggle more than most kids, or..?

 

I am a bit wary as you were after reading the problems. This is more compounded in this case for our middle dd who struggles quite a bit more with math. I need the program to be very clear and relatively easy for her to follow conceptually after putting in the work. So DO has been great for the most part. But yes, Jacobs 3rd edition may just not fit her learning style along with others.

[TarynB]

That's good to hear, TarynB. I have heard of others like your son not have a bad experience. Can you tell me how your son normally does with math overall? Does it come naturally to him, does he struggle more than most kids, or..?

 

I am a bit wary as you were after reading the problems. This is more compounded in this case for our middle dd who struggles quite a bit more with math. I need the program to be very clear and relatively easy for her to follow conceptually after putting in the work. So DO has been great for the most part. But yes, Jacobs 3rd edition may just not fit her learning style along with others.

 

I'm not exactly sure how to answer that, since he's my only kid and I don't have another to compare him to. Math is not his favorite subject, he doesn't love it, and he has to work at it, but he did earn an A in the DO Geometry course. He's diligent but not naturally gifted in math. He does need to watch the videos and he does all of the assigned work, even the practice problems that are not turned in for a grade. I've read on here about kids who are able to skip watching the videos or who don't have to do all the assigned work and don't seem to require all the available practice. That's not my kid, LOL. He does appreciate DO's organizational skills and clear teaching style. The self-paced format and non-live interaction is appreciated here too. (DS doesn't like live classes that waste time and have distracting chats that veer way off-topic.)

Edited December 29, 2017 by TarynB

[dereksurfs]

Thanks. It was Unlock math. I still can’t see the posts where it was actually reviewed, but just having the name is great. Many many thanks!

 

Madteaparty,

 

See the post I just updated regarding Clear Creek's review of Unlock Math. In addition, here's a little more on their Geometry course:

 

1. Have your kids actually used their help services? If so, what is the response time like when asking a question?

 

2. How do they handle Proofs for the Geometry course? Are they addressed throughout the course or more limited to a section? And how are these be graded when they can have more than one correct answer? I'm having a hard time imagining auto grading proofs.

 

3. How have your kids responded to it? What were you using with them before as a means for comparison?

 

4. What are your thoughts on its rigor, lets say on a scale from super easy to super challenging? I know that's somewhat subjective. But its really hard to gauge from the outside.

 

5. Automatic grading: does this mean the student doesn't need to write out their steps and there is no partial credit? Is the 'final answer' all that matters?

 

I first heard of it on Facebook in a homeschool group about a year or so ago. At the time I was looking for an upper-level math program for my middle child. She watched a few sample videos and really liked the instructor, so when the time came this fall for my daughter to start pre-algebra that is the one I went with. My older daughter really liked the samples of the geometry videos, and I liked that the complete solution was given for each problem, and I liked that free tutoring was available so that I no longer needed to relearn math along with my daughter, so I decided to try it out with her as well. They have both asked to stick with it through high school.

 

1. My kids have not yet used their help services. They still ask me, lol. Once my oldest is in algebra II I will make her use it instead of asking me because I will be of no help at that point. I have used their chat box to ask Matthew Blackwood questions, and he responds immediately. The only time I emailed the comany I had a return phone call less than five minutes later. The chat box is supposed to only be there when someone is available to answer questions, and it is always there at the bottom of the screen when my daughters are doing their lessons, so it would appear that help would be available instantly.

 

2. This is a hard question since I am not there in the room when my daughter does the lessons. My daughter says that there were lessons near the beginning of the course that taught the two-column proof. Since then, the proofs have appeared during warm-ups and review sections on occasion. I went in and looked at some random lessons, and it appears that they are actually there far more than my daughter realizes. The lessons walk the student through proving a new theorem several times over, it just doesn't look like the two-column proof format that they originally learned since that is harder to do with a computer-graded lesson. The practice problem format includes a lot of partial-credit questions that are designed to walk the student through the proof, and then the answer/explanation that is given after the complete question is answered with the complete proof written out. The student has to read through it and click that they have read it before moving on, so they can't easily skip that part. So a question in the lesson on the triangle sum theorem might actually have five parts to it, with each successive part being corrected and explained before the student can move on to the next part, and it all works together to prove the theorem. It isn't quite as tidy and straightforward as just writing proofs, but the parts and pieces are there and the essence of it (which is what geometry is about) is definitely still there.

 

3. My oldest used AoPS pre-algebra (harder math than I felt was necessary, despite her capabilities with the program) and Jacobs Elementary Algebra. My middle child used MUS Alpha-Delta, then Horizons 4, 5, & 6. My oldest is having no trouble with the geometry, is holding an A-, and is on track to be finished by May. My younger daughter is slowly working her way through pre-algebra, though she is holding a B. At least once a week she has to do a lesson for a second time since it didn't stick the first time, but that is normal for her with her math issues. The program gives her new questions every time, so she can get as much practice as she needs until she is comfortable with the concept. The problem sets are short, so she doesn't get overwhelmed with the number of problems that need to be completed in a lesson.

 

4. This is not AoPS. But it is far more rigorous than MUS. I would say that the pre-algebra is right on par with Dolciani pre-algebra. I haven't taught another geometry program, so I can't make a comparison there. The lesson problems look similar to the 1st edition Jacobs Geometry that I have on my shelf, though. I think it is very much a solid college-prep math program.

 

5. I kind of answered this earlier...a lot of the questions require the student to input answers as they go through solving the problem, so the student quickly gets in the habit of writing out all the steps. Questions with more than one part award partial credit to each part of the question.

Edited December 30, 2017 by dereksurfs