Book a Week 2017 - BW44: Welcome to Nonfiction November

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Thanks! As fate would have it, I actually have And Then There Were None on my shelves. I picked it up at a library book sale years ago, but never read it. Given that it's been mentioned at least a couple times on this thread (and because it was written in the 1930s),  I think I might try it next.

 

I'll make note of the others mentioned in the thread in case I need to give AC a third chance or in case I am her newest fan. 

 

Thanks again!

[Woodland Mist Academy]

double post in my Agatha Christie excitement...

Edited November 4, 2017 by Woodland Mist Academy

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Does anyone remember the seasonal setting And Then There Were None? I try to read books by season, which is why I read Hallowe'en Party when I did. That's also why I waited until summer to read The Elementals, instead of reading it last October. 

 

I tried to flip through the book and Google, but I kept seeing potential spoilers, so I thought I'd ask here. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Woodland Mist Academy

[Butter]

I finished the sixth and final Kilenya Chronicles book, Golden Symbol by Andrea Pearson.  I really liked how she added to the ending to set up what happens in her next series (Mosaic Chronicles).

[Chrysalis Academy]

Does anyone remember the seasonal setting And Then There Were None? I try to read books by season, which is why I read Hallowe'en Party when I did. That's also why I waited until summer to read The Elementals, instead of reading it last October. 

 

I tried to flip through the book and Google, but I kept seeing potential spoilers, so I thought I'd ask here. 

 

 

Definitely summer.  August I think?

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Thanks! I'll put it on my list for this summer.

[Robin M]

Link to week 45 - please continue conversation in new thread 

[Pam in CT]

re the power of the just-right metaphor

I have also felt many conflicting, strong emotions over the past couple of days, feelings I’ve struggled to put into words and share. What finally crystallized things for me was the stark contrast of metaphors presented in two adjacent posts, by Jennifer and Robin. Jen sees BaW as a front porch where we gather to talk books and share bits of our lives. Robin sees it as a sandbox where children play with their toys. The children must be monitored to ensure that they don’t break any rules, and bad children who break the rules can be told to pack up their toys and leave.

 

 

Like everybody else, I appreciate the effort that goes into maintaining this space. But: that effort doesn’t automatically come with special powers of exclusion. It’s only a sandbox if you choose to see it as a sandbox. The sandbox, the porch, they’re both just stories. We all choose the narratives by which we live. Me? I choose to hang out on the porch with my friends. Pull up a rocker. Don’t kick sand in my lemonade. 

 

 

As another deeply conflict-averse reader, who for a long time found a great deal of sustenance and stimulation and camaraderie and growth in this space... until as a result of my halting work-in-progress responses TO BOOKS I was struggling with, like Michele Alexander and Ta-Nehisi Coates and Oscar Martinez... and -- because I just worked my way through this week's thread -- Cloud Atlas and Brave New World -- I realized it was a sandbox.  That I realized -- with great regret -- it was time to leave behind, since I was, personally, in a moment where I needed a porch.

 

Being deeply conflict-averse, I just sort of... wandered off, because that seemed to be the most diplomatic and mannered course.

 

But to every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose; a time to withdraw without comment and a time to explain; a time to give reason and a time to refrain from speaking.

 

 

[Robin M]

..

Edited November 16, 2017 by Robin M

[Pam in CT]

My dear Pam. I have always respected you and appreciated your wisdom.  However, many assumptions are being made based upon words being put in my mouth and  twisted  to make a point and insult not only me, but all the women in this group.  I don’t need other people to speak for me and others  opinion of me are not my reality. Gossip and innuendo have no place here.

  

 

 

My husband has taught me to never walk away from a disagreement, to always talk it out, to forgive and not use the past as ammunition.  I came across this quote in my reading:

 

 

“I can forgive, but I cannot forget, is only another way of saying, I will not forgive.  Forgiveness ought to be like a cancelled note – torn in two and burned up, so that it never can be shown against one.†

 

 

 

I admit I gaffed a time or two in the nine years of hosting this thread and I apologized and let it go.   I’m saddened that those I consider friends choose to hold onto notes and use them as a reminder of past transgressions.  Friendship is not conditional and doesn’t hold grudges.  It is based on free expression, and not on silencing one when you don’t agree with their opinion.

 

 

 In my house, there is no I am right and you are wrong or visa versa.  I enjoy debating with my husband and son, family, friends and customers. Lots of animated discussions as there are two sides, maybe more to any issues.  Dissenting opinions discussed with an open mind, compassion, and respect.  We don’t always have to agree and maybe the discussion will change a mind and maybe not. But that’s okay

 

 

If you or anyone else has issues with how 52 books operates, please step up and host some threads for a week or a month.  The duties including coming up with content and  posting  the threads.  Responding  to any and all, smoothing ruffled feathers, because feathers do get ruffled and you’ll hear about it in private messaging, so you will have to intervene, while trying not to offend and  avoiding the fine line of the divisive, while seeing that everybody is comfortable.  It’s not only a job, but an adventure. Walk a mile in my shoes for a while.

 

 

In the Well Trained Mind neighborhood, 52 Books is my house and the door is always open.    

 

 

We need to clear the air in order to move forward. We are in mourning because two of our family decided to leave because of misunderstandings.    We are all strong willed, passionate women so this needs to be resolved.   The floor is open and I’m willing to listen. Are you?

 

 

Oh, honey   :grouphug: .

 

I admire and respect you as well, and know and truly appreciate the time and thought and organization and above all CONSISTENCY with which you've structured the BAW space lo these many years.

 

And though I have too many faults to count, a propensity to drama queen flouncing is not, generally speaking, among my bad habits... which is part of the reason why I just.... wandered off .... and why I am now, at this moment, unsure how or even if to respond to your invitation to respond.

 

But I will try.  (deep breath)

 

 

I assure you that from *my* point of view, my wandering-off had nothing to do with my willingness to (try to) debate across differences with compassion and respect.  Like you, I try hard to maintain such conversations at home, and also in IRL civic and interfaith organizations I'm involved with; and also in virtual conversations on the general Chat Board and in the (open to all) Politics group.  Like you say in your own post, I definitely sometimes stumble, but I do not shy from the attempt to communicate across difference; indeed I believe, almost literally, that to do so is to do God's work.  So when I say I am "conflict-averse," I do not mean I am unwilling to try to navigate difference.

 

From my point of view, my wandering-off also had nothing to do with "forgiveness."  From my point of view, there is nothing to forgive.  You and I may understand that concept differently (which is fine) -- aside from differences that may arise from our respective faith traditions, the most useful *working* definition of the term that has over the long haul most opened gates of understanding to me is from (of all people!!) Lily Tomlin: forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past.  Which OTOH does suggest -- as you say, in what the term means to you -- that we don't hold on to, and nurse and water and feed, our grievances.  But OTOH, it also suggests that forgiveness does not require that we give up all hope of a better future.  A woman who was abused as a child by her stepfather may truly forgive him; that does not mean she leaves her own children alone with him.  Forgiveness to me means letting go of what (pain, anger, other heavy things) holds us down, so we can move on, ourselves.  It does not necessarily compel us to go back.  In any event.  There is nothing *to forgive*, to my mind.

 

From my point of view, my wandering-off was a matter of fit, nothing more or less.  Two years ago my reading began to change; my balance shifted from fiction to non-fiction; within that the composition shifted to books about poverty and inequality and race and immigration and incarceration. I needed to understand these issues that I felt were fracturing my beloved country; and to understand them I needed both to read about the issues, and also to engage other people in processing them.  And while there were a handful of others in the BAW who were experiencing a similar shift, and reading similar books... and though I believe my posts at the time were jumping pretty directly *off the texts*, and though I certainly meant my posts to hew to the posted WTM guidelines for the forums (fora?) as a whole on both civility and content... you expressed discomfort.

 

Well, all right.  Your porch, your sandbox, your house -- whatever the metaphor, *you* were the one doing the work of framing the BAW space.  If I go to a party hoping to play Charades, and it turns out the host has rolled up all the rugs and turned on a VERY LOUD dance playlist... well.  Your house, your party.  I don't insist on Charades, I don't flounce, I give my regards and duck out early.  

 

No hard feelings, no debate, and certainly no forgiveness... but that monitored sandbox was not what I needed at that moment in time... so I felt it was on me to find a space that would serve the needs I had.  Still have.  

 

 

 

I liked your Strong Willed Woman list very much; thank you for that.  While (as you know) I have long counted myself a feminist, I am not sure I really am "strong willed" as thus defined.... I have feedback, lol.

 

Numbers 3 (She thinks—a lot), 4 (She questions every rule, norm, assumption, and basically everything that she is told), and 11 (She's hard on herself) hold for me, nearly all the time, arguably past the point of constructiveness and into fault.

 

Numbers 2 (She'll tell it how it is), 7 (She refuses to settle), and 10 (She has a hot temper), not so much.  Usually, I believe it is better to temper and/or soften my words.  Not infrequently, do I believe it is best to refrain from speaking.  As a general matter, I tend to value deliberateness over "telling it like it is."

 

And the others... I go back and forth, circumstantially... so by the logic of the list, I must not be "strong-willed."  Well, that is fine.

 

Number 12, though, well described the circumstances of my wandering-off:

 

If she's not saying anything after a while, you should be concerned. A strong-willed woman will speak up after she gathers her thoughts, but if not, her silence itself is a message. At this point, she may not even want to waste her time and energy on the subject. It may also mean that she is working out things in her head, demonstrating that she values what's going on enough to actually think about it. But don't get your hopes up if she is silent for a long period of time—usually this is past the point of no return.

 

 

Which -- I hasten to soften, see -- does not reflect what I feel about *you* -- I continue, in this very exchange now, in this moment today, to respect and admire you, and appreciate your efforts and care in establishing the BAW space, and your humor and grace and literary insights.

 

But I needed a forum in which I could process the messy unsettled anxieties, and increasing looming sense of urgency, I was experiencing.  A matter of fit -- nothing more; but equally, nothing less.  On *that,* I could not settle, and remain authentic.  And without authenticity, honestly what's the point.

 

:grouphug:

 

Peace,

your always-fellow reader, sometimes-fellow traveler friend

Pam

[Robin M]

..

Edited November 16, 2017 by Robin M

[Butter]

I finished Out of Play by Joy Northram.  It's about a woman with a husband who starts LARPing and their marriage is a mess so her therapist recommends she try it out, but instead she spies on him and ends up convinced he is having an affair and then a big twist is thrown in and it just wasn't good.