Kids lying and teens fighting -- I found this research VERY interesting!

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

New York Mag on Learning to Lie

[Doran]

And also a bit terrifying. I can't help but think about my own childhood, the things I kept from my parents, the "white lies" my children have witnessed here, and all the ways I still need to change. I already have one teen and another not far behind. Figure it's too late for me/us/them? :confused:

 

Doran

[*anj*]

What an eye opener. I thought the part about tattling was especially interesting, but the whole thing was very provocative. I'm going to try and remember how/when I started lying to my parents.

[Storm Bay]

This is interesting. We've made a point of not telling white lies because we heard something like this years ago. Actually, this is why we first decided not to do Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny (although I loved those when I was a kid.) However, if you've done those, I'm not trying to criticize--if we hadn't had it suggested to us by someone we respected, we probably would have done that, too.

 

That said, I have one child who struggles with this, but so far only for covering up disobedience. There has been a lot of improvement, but it's a work in progress. However, I think just about every child lies at some point in their lives. I'm more concerned about making sure it doesn't become a permanent habit.

[Laurie4b]

Thanks, Pam. Very thought-provoking read.

[gardenschooler]

That article was very enlightening.

 

It was also very painful to read. I see myself in too many of the examples.

 

:::Sigh::::. If we knew then, what we know now. Sometimes I think I need to have a whole new batch of children to finally get it right.

[*anj*]

That article was very enlightening.

 

It was also very painful to read. I see myself in too many of the examples.

 

:::Sigh::::. If we knew then, what we know now. Sometimes I think I need to have a whole new batch of children to finally get it right.

 

Amen, sister!

I'd give you some rep right now for saying that, but I need to spread it around more before I can zap you again!

[Doran]

That article was very enlightening.

 

It was also very painful to read. I see myself in too many of the examples.

 

:::Sigh::::. If we knew then, what we know now. Sometimes I think I need to have a whole new batch of children to finally get it right.

 

Hence, my "terrifying" comment above Reading that article made me wish I could start all over...not just with my kids, but also with my own childhood. But, then, I guess my parents would have to start over, too. And, knowing what they (and I) know now, I'm not sure they'd be willing. :rolleyes:

 

I still question when it's too late. At what point are the patterns so engrained, so well learned, that it's nearly impossible to unlearn them? Never I hope, though it makes the task of retraining "us" loom that much larger.

 

Egad, from the looks of this post, you'd think we're a pack of lying cheats here. It's not that bad -- but realisitically, I also see that we could work on a WHOLE lot!

 

Doran

[Danestress]

My favorite part was the part about how teens perceive arguing with parents as *building* the relationship and how it can be a sign of respect - that the kid really needs to hear the parent's view and win the parent's approval rather than just like. It makes me see somewhat differently the dynamic with my oldest son - with whom we had many many drawn out arguments, and with whom I would say I have a good degree of emotional closeness.

 

My least favorite part was the close up photos of children that reminded me of the movie "The Bad Seed" lol. No smiling children?

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

My favorite part was the part about how teens perceive arguing with parents as *building* the relationship and how it can be a sign of respect - that the kid really needs to hear the parent's view and win the parent's approval rather than just like. It makes me see somewhat differently the dynamic with my oldest son - with whom we had many many drawn out arguments, and with whom I would say I have a good degree of emotional closeness.

 

when I read that part, how she worries about arguing with her eldest, and how she has, nevertheless a great relationship with her boys.

 

The teens here don't "argue" with us, but we've gotten into the pointed discussion phase, for which I'm thankful. More thankful now that I read this, lol!

 

I was such a little liar. Oh my. I sure don't want my kids to carry that burden around. It's been high on my priority list that they not be cornered into starting to lie habitually.

 

Oh, and Karin, we had the same concerns with SC and EB. We "do" SC and EB, but we say from the start that we're pretending about them. They don't "get" that we are, even though we constantly talk about "how fun it is to pretend about Santa Clause" until they are about seven. And even then, they aren't quite convinced, lol. But it's there for them to take if they want. (Insert spooky music -- The Truth Is Out There!)

 

My problem now is lying about my emotions inadvertantly. Being afraid and coming across as angry. Being angry and trying to deny it. Being sad and putting on a happy face. Kids aren't fooled, but they don't understand why our words don't match our true affect. That's my biggest struggle right now.

[AndyJoy]

This was a very interesting read. I think this will help me in dealing with my 6th-8th grade students. I have several students who lie about everything! Others are "arguers" who would rather fight than lie about their feelings. I also have a few who are so afraid of being labelled tattlers that they won't tell a teacher about anything--including the important stuff.

 

I was one of those teens who saw arguing about things with my parents as a bonding experience. This was how I got to know them, see where they were coming from, and test my views for their approval (or disapproval). I even liked it when they could show me the flaws in my thinking so that I could ruminate over my views some more. I know this sometimes exasperated them (especially my mom), but they usually let me debate with them as long as I was respectful and was willing to obey even if they couldn't persuade me of the logic of their views.

 

I remember my mom yelling at my sister and me for "fighting" when we were 12 and 14 when to us we were having a perfectly civil argument about something inconsequential. We were just enjoying using our debating skills with each other. We looked at her like she was an alien!

 

In my classroom, I have tried to make the kids feel welcome to disagree with me, as long as they are respectful and obedient. I would rather have a student tell me why he did/didn't do something so I can address his reasons rather than have him clam up and let his feelings fester. I work with my sixth graders especially about the difference between tattling and informing me about important things.

[Storm Bay]

I was such a little liar. Oh my. I sure don't want my kids to carry that burden around. It's been high on my priority list that they not be cornered into starting to lie habitually.

 

Oh, and Karin, we had the same concerns with SC and EB. We "do" SC and EB, but we say from the start that we're pretending about them. They don't "get" that we are, even though we constantly talk about "how fun it is to pretend about Santa Clause" until they are about seven. And even then, they aren't quite convinced, lol. But it's there for them to take if they want. (Insert spooky music -- The Truth Is Out There!)

 

QUOTE]

 

This is a good way to do it. We called Santa Claus a clown when they saw pictures, etc, but that might have helped when family signed Santa on gifts.

 

As for me, I lied a lot in my middle school years (although I didn't go to middle school, but to give an age). It is repugnant to me now, but I was quite a difficult child. Although in some categories I was painstakingly honest, turning in money I found in washrooms (aka restrooms), totally reliable babysitter, etc., I was also rebellious (with good reason, but nevertheless I could have handled myself better), unhappy, bored in school, depressed and just all around not a happy camper back then. I thought my parents were stupid and was mortified with embarrassment to be seen with them, even though some of my friends thought my mother was cool. I won't say I've been perfect since then, but I've worked on getting rid of this habit and have found ways to be kind without actually telling white lies because I want my kids to be more honest than I was. It was hard to break the habit, almost as hard as quitting swearing (I hung out with a less than stellar crowd for a couple of years, although all of us have managed to turn out fine in the end after going our separate ways, by the grace of God.)

[dirty ethel rackham]

Yes, that was very enlightening. I plan on implementing it in my 14yos. He is very obedient, but I think he keeps a lot from us.