Roadrunner Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 If a child rammed through aops preA with no problem but can't handle the Algebra book, what do I do with him? I am debating if I should try Singapore grade 7 or 8? Any advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawana Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 How old is the child? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 can you give more details? In which way can the child not handle algebra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Can you give more details about "can't handle"? My DS11 finds Algebra in general dry so he did the introduction to algebra book concurrently with the introduction to geometry book. We had to add in random math enrichment stuff when he did the intermediate algebra book to lessen the dryness. My DS12 tends to just ram through if he is bored so he did geometry concurrently with intermediate algebra. Precalculus was less boring for him. My DS11 is still in summer mood so everything is hard even though the local public schools has already started this week. He just want to do nothing but play :P So without more details it's hard to give opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 18, 2017 Author Share Posted August 18, 2017 (edited) He will be 11 in couple of months. He didn't have any issues with preAlgebra and worked through it surprisingly well. We took the summer off and I thought maybe he was a little rusty. Went back to ask him redo summary problems in preA. Again, he can work those over. In Algebra he struggled with chapter 5 mightily but got through it. Now he is blank on ratio problems in chapter 6 as if he has never seen ratios before. I will pull out the preA book again and rework the ratios, but I am not sure this is a wise usage of time. He is struggling too much in the Algebra book. And I know that the difficulty of the book ramps up. Geometry book is out of the question. It's too hard. I am thinking I need something while I am waiting for him to mature. What to do? Edited August 18, 2017 by Roadrunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavy Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I would try the Jousting Armadillos series, Keys to Algebra, Danica McKellar Algebra book(rather girly though), or Life of Fred Algebra. All these would be a fun intro to Algebra. Or if you want to do MUS Algebra or Teaching Textbooks Algebra, I have heard those are lighter. Then you could return to AOPS. Sorry I cannot comment on the upper level Singapore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 It may be hard to judge how much struggling is too much. Is he upset about it? Taking longer than expected? How are you handing the lesson problems - is he trying them completely independently, or working together with you, etc.? It doesn't really matter if you come back to the ratios later. Or, have him do the Alcumus topic on ratios under Prealgebra to refresh his memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visitor Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Maby work with a supplement of Singapore math ? sgbox.com sells a great supplement on NSM / NEM / DM . It's called Mathematics Tutor . Your child can even work with these books without NSM but as a supplement to any math curriculum such as AoPs. It has great comprehensive explanations with basic and harder questions . On the back of the book are worked solutions . Instead of Alcumus I want to work with these books along with AoPs . They have Mathematics Tutor 1 untill 4 . Math tutor 1 is intro Algebra . Math Tutor 4 Calculus . I even prefer these books on NSM and NEM . Because the books include everything . It is Tektbook , Workbook and worked solutions all in one . Each year has part A and B . Part A is Algebra and part B is Geometry .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerforest Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I agree about trying another algebra and going back to it. That's actually what we're doing. We completed Forester's last year (7th), but it fell short for me in a few places. DD did fine, but I figure we have the time so we are going through AoPS algebra this year (8th). I strongly suspect this will be our last AoPS book, but I think having the solid year of other algebra under her makes it a great fit right now. She's quite strong in math but genuinely doesn't enjoy it so she just will never be the kid who gets enjoyment from tackling single problems for an hour. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 Maby work with a supplement of Singapore math ? sgbox.com sells a great supplement on NSM / NEM / DM . It's called Mathematics Tutor . Your child can even work with these books without NSM but as a supplement to any math curriculum such as AoPs. It has great comprehensive explanations with basic and harder questions . On the back of the book are worked solutions . Instead of Alcumus I want to work with these books along with AoPs . They have Mathematics Tutor 1 untill 4 . Math tutor 1 is intro Algebra . Math Tutor 4 Calculus . I even prefer these books on NSM and NEM . Because the books include everything . It is Tektbook , Workbook and worked solutions all in one . Each year has part A and B . Part A is Algebra and part B is Geometry .... I like the looks of SM, but the options are making me dizzy. Do you have a specific one you would recommend? TT, key to series, MUS are just too easy for this kid. He could probably work through an entire MUS book in a month. I need something in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wapiti Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 You could have him do the second half of Jacobs Elementary Algebra. He could skip the first half entirely (there's a review assignment at that halfway point, if I recall correctly.) The exercises include an element of discovery but far gentler than aops. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visitor Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Yes I have these are the books for grade 7; http://www.sgbox.com/s1mt.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawana Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I had a similar issue with dd who finished SM through 6B by age 10, started New Elementary Math, flew through the first 5 chapters covering preA topics, then slammed up against the algebra topics. It turned out she needed another year of brain development to successfully do algebra. No worries, we had time. We tried Saxon Math 8/7 as a time filler. Blech! Don't do what we did lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) He will be 11 in couple of months. He didn't have any issues with preAlgebra and worked through it surprisingly well. We took the summer off and I thought maybe he was a little rusty. Went back to ask him redo summary problems in preA. Again, he can work those over. In Algebra he struggled with chapter 5 mightily but got through it. Now he is blank on ratio problems in chapter 6 as if he has never seen ratios before. I will pull out the preA book again and rework the ratios, but I am not sure this is a wise usage of time. He is struggling too much in the Algebra book. And I know that the difficulty of the book ramps up. Geometry book is out of the question. It's too hard. I am thinking I need something while I am waiting for him to mature. What to do? Just for perspective: many students hit a snag in ch. 6 and 7 of the Intro to Algebra book. These chapters are, IMO, the hardest. We completely stopped algebra when DS at age 12 hit the wallin ch. 7, and inserted a semester of AoPS Intro to Counting and Probability. After that, we returned to algebra, and he was able to get the material without the problems - just by being a little more mature. So, for us it worked well to stop there adn take a detour through some discrete math that is outside the tyical scope and sequence. The intro to Number theory is also a good option and takes about one semester. Edited August 19, 2017 by regentrude 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 Just for perspective: many students hit a snag in ch. 6 and 7 of the Intro to Algebra book. These chapters are, IMO, the hardest. We completely stopped algebra when DS at age 12 hit the wallin ch. 7, and inserted a semester of AoPS Intro to Counting and Probability. After that, we returned to algebra, and he was able to get the material without the problems - just by being a little more mature. So, for us it worked well to stop there adn take a detour through some discrete math that is outside the tyical scope and sequence. The intro to Number theory is also a good option and takes about one semester. I am thinking about this. I think the first half of number theory is easy and probably a good match for him, but I am not sure he will find the second half of the book or C&P any easier. Do you think I can skip over 6 and 7 and come back to it later? I wish I hadn't given away Jacob's Algebra. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
regentrude Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I am thinking about this. I think the first half of number theory is easy and probably a good match for him, but I am not sure he will find the second half of the book or C&P any easier. Do you think I can skip over 6 and 7 and come back to it later? I wish I hadn't given away Jacob's Algebra. :( No, you cannot skip and continue on, because you will need the skills. But you can stop working on the algebra book at this point, and do NT or C&P. It was not that hard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Is your son more interested in pure math, applied math or competition math? That would help with suggesting what might work while he mature. For example my DS11 is strongly applied math even though he finds proofs okay. So C&P was easier than NT. I could easily use physics for him to practice simple algebra skills. Also he likes the "puzzle" aspect of math competitions questions even though he doesn't care about the score. So he did random past year math competitions questions for fun. For example he could pick 5 out of 24 questions to do for fun and that was fine with me. My DS12 on the other hand is quite evenly split on pure and applied math. So the materials he used are more varied. Besides physics, he is also interested in cyber security and DNA sequencing/genetic engineering, basically anything to do with patterns. So while DS11 need more "real life" math, there are much more stuff I can give to DS12. I definitely killed more trees with DS12 because he doesn't like ebooks or PDF so I had to print. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 He doesn't know enough about math to be interested in anything. :) I am going to go back in preA and maybe rework end of chapter problems about ratios. And then go back and try again chapter 6. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TracyP Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 I am thinking about this. I think the first half of number theory is easy and probably a good match for him, but I am not sure he will find the second half of the book or C&P any easier. Do you think I can skip over 6 and 7 and come back to it later? I wish I hadn't given away Jacob's Algebra. :( My dd got stuck halfway through 6, so we skipped the rest of it and all of 7. We made it through Ch. 11 by the end of the year without a problem. That was 2 years ago, then we did Geometry last year. This year we will complete 6 and 7 before picking up where we left off. I think you'd be fine skipping ahead for now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemsondana Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 We had a similar experience. I decided to take 2 years with the book and add the Jousting Armadillos series. We spent the last part of last year doing JA, and I wish that I had found it sooner. This year started with me picking selected summary problems from the first 13 chapters of AoPS (which is what we had worked through, slowly, last year). When I was a kid, I also took algebra early and really struggled...and then the fall that I started Alg. 2, it was suddenly easy and I couldn't understand what had confused me. So, I second the idea of taking a break and trying something different, or finding a less complicated 'beginner' curriculum. We also started Life of Fred. We have one day each week that is rushed, and trying to do AoPS was really stressful on that day. I don't want to skip math, but stressing over it makes it impossible to learn. So, on rushed days and any time we travel we take the LOF algebra book. It adds a review of earlier topics and means that it's being taught in a different way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 Have he watched the AoPS videos for those chapters? My boys were not interested in videos but some kids do learn better from videos. https://artofproblemsolving.com/videos/algebra1 Also ratios and proportions are more applied math. My kids did a lot of ratios and proportions with food and cooking, as well as model building using Lego. My kids love drawing floor plans to scale and also build replicas of landmarks like Eiffel Tower. I would be comfortable skipping chapter 6 & 7 and then coming back to those after chapter 13. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 Yes to videos. I actually have Jousting Armadillos on my shelf, so will look at that as well. I have been spoiled by my other kid who rammed through the entire Intro to Algebra as a 5th grader and didn't blink twice and didn't need my help. Now only if this kid was the same. Sigh. I also think this child needs more lower level practice problems. This section has 6 end of section problems, of which one is AMC12 and one is starred. I see now that some kids need more sprints before they can take on harder work. Anything I can use to target ratios specifically? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 . Anything I can use to target ratios specifically? This MEP math module might be too easy but convenient for practicing and free http://www.cimt.org.uk/projects/mepres/book8/bk8_7.pdf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 This MEP math module might be too easy but convenient for practicing and free http://www.cimt.org.uk/projects/mepres/book8/bk8_7.pdf Actually, this might just be perfect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share Posted August 21, 2017 OK. So we went back to the preAlgebra book on ratios. He knocked out an entire summary section of that chapter and did mostbin his head. Why, oh why is he so bugged down in the same stuff in algebra. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Could it be pre-teen mental fog? My DS12 had the worse seasonal allergy outbreak when he was 11 year 1 month and 11 years 4 months. All the other years, his January and April allergies were irritating but mild. He also had growth spurts during that time and was around 5'6" when he turn 11 years 6 months. He did almost zero academic work during those two months because he was just doing the minimum for outside classes and then sleeping off his allergies. My DS11 is also having growth spurts but he has always been whiny so it's harder to tell if he really forgot a concept or he is in the "do not want to do anything but play" mood. He did have good days and bad days so there is some mental fog at play there. Both my boys are still having growing pains, just that one is intense spurts and one is drawn out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 Could it be pre-teen mental fog? My DS12 had the worse seasonal allergy outbreak when he was 11 year 1 month and 11 years 4 months. All the other years, his January and April allergies were irritating but mild. He also had growth spurts during that time and was around 5'6" when he turn 11 years 6 months. He did almost zero academic work during those two months because he was just doing the minimum for outside classes and then sleeping off his allergies. My DS11 is also having growth spurts but he has always been whiny so it's harder to tell if he really forgot a concept or he is in the "do not want to do anything but play" mood. He did have good days and bad days so there is some mental fog at play there. Both my boys are still having growing pains, just that one is intense spurts and one is drawn out. I don't think so. He is still 10 and there seems to be no sign of puberty. At this point I would be happy if it's just mental fog. It's like he has a mental block all of a sudden on math only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadrunner Posted August 26, 2017 Author Share Posted August 26, 2017 Just an update but once we hit the percents in chapter 7,, apparently its all easy again. 😳 I am terrified of chapter 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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