s/o Early High School English and Science Classes

[Kassia]

Dd is a rising sophomore and I counted her science, English, and math courses in 8th grade as high school courses because she used high school curriculum and the public schools in our district do so.  After reading the thread about some colleges not allowing that, I'm a little concerned and have two questions about her high school transcript.

 

For English, we outsourced for 9th grade and are doing so for 10th grade.  She used Oak Meadow Hero's Journey in 8th grade, which is their freshman English. We are using a literature and composition class (British lit last year, American lit this year) that the provider says equals 1.5 credits.  Even though the provider states the class is 1.5 credits, I am only counting it as 1.  But now I'm wondering if I should award the full 1.5 credits just to make sure dd is covered for English requirements.  For junior and senior year, I am hoping she takes 3 DE courses at 3 credits each.  

 

For science...this is the only subject dd really doesn't like.  She did a high school level physical science class in 8th grade, Oak Meadow high school biology in 9th.  Our plan is for her to take Elementary Chemistry w/lab as DE this fall (four credits) and then a physics class w/lab as DE in her junior year (5 credits) and then an easier, non-lab class - like astronomy or something like that just to throw in one more science semester.  

 

What do you think?  Will she be covered for science and English?  Her SAT reading score was very high so I think that might help...I just want to make sure I don't hurt any admission chances for her.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2017 by Kassia

[EKS]

Is your CC on the semester or quarter system?  I ask because the number of credits needed for one DE class to equal one high school credit changes depending on the answer.

 

As far as high school credits accumulated in middle school--I listed them.  But none of them fulfilled any graduation or admission requirements, if that makes sense.  So, for example, he had a high school English class in middle school, but he also had four years of English in high school.

[Kassia]

Our CC is on semesters (actually there is talk about them going on strike soon - eek!).  I am always hesitant to list 3 credit classes as a full credit, though, even though that's the way our state counts them.  

 

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Kassia

[SunshineMom]

Are you wanting her to take English when she DE? I think the concern may be from counting 8-10th for the 4 credits of high school English.

[Kassia]

Yes, she will take 2-3 semesters of English in her junior and senior years.  I'd like her to take 3 (well, I'd like her to take 4, but 3 seems safe - if she finds a professor she loves, maybe she'll go for the full 4).  The provider for her English class for 9th and 10th grade counts those classes as 1.5 credits, though.  So, I could list those two years as 3 high school credits, but I don't feel right about it.

 

 

 

 

[EKS]

Our CC is on semesters (actually there is talk about them going on strike soon - eek!).  I am always hesitant to list 3 credit classes as a full credit, though, even though that's the way our state counts them.  

 

I decided to list the 3 credit classes (well, actually, our CC is on the quarter system, so they're 5 credit classes, but they're equivalent to 3 semester credits) as 0.5 high school credits.  But I think that most people list them as a full credit and our state requires that public high schools count them as full credits.

[Kassia]

I decided to list the 3 credit classes (well, actually, our CC is on the quarter system, so they're 5 credit classes, but they're equivalent to 3 semester credits) as 0.5 high school credits.  But I think that most people list them as a full credit and our state requires that public high schools count them as full credits.

 

I think this is why it's so confusing!  I saw that FL counts many 3 credit classes as .5 credit, but not all.  

 

When my older son did DE as a ps student, 3 credit courses were counted as .5 credit.  Now, with my dd, they are allowed to count as a full credit.  I thought his schedule was too hard (he went full-time) and I worry about hers not being *rigorous* enough for colleges.  It feels like such a big responsibility, but my DH keeps reminding me that everything would be counted as a full credit if she were in ps and I wouldn't think about it and he's probably right.  I just worry, worry, worry...

[Julie of KY]

For English - I'd aim for four years/credits during high school. It looks like you have:

9th grade English

10th grade English

2-3 credits of DE classes

        total 4-5 English credits by my count

 

For Science - aim for 3-4 years/credits during high school. It looks like you have:

9th - physical sciecne

10th - biology

Dual enrollment chemisty and physics - 1 credit each

         total 4 credits by my count

 

I'd count the semester DE classes a high school credit, therefore it looks like you have plenty.

[Kassia]

For English - I'd aim for four years/credits during high school. It looks like you have:

9th grade English

10th grade English

2-3 credits of DE classes

        total 4-5 English credits by my count

 

For Science - aim for 3-4 years/credits during high school. It looks like you have:

9th - physical sciecne

10th - biology

Dual enrollment chemisty and physics - 1 credit each

         total 4 credits by my count

 

I'd count the semester DE classes a high school credit, therefore it looks like you have plenty.

 

Gah - that's because I messed up my original post (darn insomnia).  I edited it to fix it, but I will tell you what I wrote incorrectly.

 

She took physical science in 8th grade, not 9th.  And then biology in 9th, not 10th.  Everything else is the same.  So I don't know if I can count the physical science as a high school credit.  

 

Thank you and I apologize for my errors!

[Julie of KY]

Gah - that's because I messed up my original post (darn insomnia).  I edited it to fix it, but I will tell you what I wrote incorrectly.

 

She took physical science in 8th grade, not 9th.  And then biology in 9th, not 10th.  Everything else is the same.  So I don't know if I can count the physical science as a high school credit.  

 

Thank you and I apologize for my errors!

 

Well, that still gives her 3 science credits - Biology, chemistry and physics. This is a very traditional three and most schools don't require more than three. Is she applying to anywhere that wants more than 3 sciences? If you list credits taken before high school, you can list the physical science, but I personally wouldn't. I do know for some there is good reason to list it.

[wapiti]

Homeschooling gives you some flexibility with the transcript.  My two cents, if you want to know what typically happens in schools:  students who take physical science in 8th do not earn credit for it.  Others take physical science in 9th (with credit) and then bio in 10th.  Bio in 9th is the more advanced track.  I would think selective colleges don't care one way or the other about physical science; the advantage of the more advanced track is the chance to take AP (or a correspondingly impressive DE course) later in high school.

 

ETA:  students who take high school bio in 8th typically do get credit for it, but this isn't offered in most schools around here, only a few.

 

Levels of CC courses - I happen to know a student who took chem at the CC during the summer to replace his regular high school chem course.  He is planning to take AP chem and the CC course will fulfill the prerequisite chem course.

My older kids attend a private high school with no associated middle school.  I don't think the high school will give credit for anything from middle school, not even math.  (And I don't think anyone cares, as long as the students are placed in advanced courses as appropriate.)  But, I haven't confirmed this.  Then again, these students are presumably compared to each other by the regional adcom, whereas homeschooler transcripts will be much more variable?  (Sorry, it has been a ridiculously long day and my words aren't coming out right. :tongue_smilie:)

Edited August 17, 2017 by wapiti

[Lori D.]

re: English credits

Sounds like you are fine with the amount of English credits planned for high school, whether you decide to "bring up" the 8th grade English or not. (You'll need a minimum of 4 credits English.) Also, the English credit can be somewhat non-traditional. For example, you can do a semester of Public Speaking or Speech & Debate as part of those 4 credits. Or focus on a topic of interest to DD for a year for one of the credits: Journalism, Creative Writing, or Technical Writing. Or, focus on Literature of special interest to DD.

 

re: Science credits

Physical Science taken in 8th grade is NOT brought up and counted as high school credit, even though roughly half the time public high schools do offer it as a possible 9th grade science class. The reason for this is that it is a "lighter" science and taken by high schoolers who are non-STEM or on an "average" Math/Science track.

 

As long as your DD takes 3 sciences in high school, she'll be fine. She has already completed Biology in 9th grade (last year), so she just needs 2 more sciences with labs, since she's not heading for a STEM-career or college major. One option is to spread out those 2 credits (done at home, not outsourced) over 3 years to leave a bit more time for the non-STEM courses of high interest to DD.

 

Another thought: since DD doesn't like science, I strongly recommend AGAINST doing science as dual enrollment. That will make the science credits even less appealing, as these will be harder science classes (college level vs. high school level) and the classes will run at double pace (1 semester college course covers about the volume of material in 1 YEAR of high school -- plus at that higher level of difficulty).

 

Instead, consider looking for some alternative Science subjects that would be more of interest to DD. Ideas:

- Environmental Science

- Ecology

- Marine Biology

- Meteorology

- Earth Science

- Botany

- Horticulture

- Astronomy

- Equine Science

 

Good luck in planning your last 3 years of high school! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Lori D.

[Kassia]

 

 

re: Science credits

Physical Science taken in 8th grade is NOT brought up and counted as high school credit, even though roughly half the time public high schools do offer it as a possible 9th grade science class. The reason for this is that it is a "light" science and taken by high schoolers who are either non-STEM or possibly remedial in Science.

 

 

 

Another thought: since DD doesn't like science, I strongly recommend AGAINST doing science as dual enrollment. That will make the science credits even less appealing, as these will be harder science classes (college level vs. high school level) and the classes will run at double pace (1 semester college course covers about the volume of material in 1 YEAR of high school -- plus at that higher level of difficulty).

 

 

 

The chemistry she will take as DE is elementary chemistry, which is a class for students who didn't take chemistry in high school.  I do not think it is a college-level class and don't expect her to get college credit for it.  Since we don't have a co-op available, I thought it would be best for her to take chemistry at the community college so she gets the lab experience (our biology labs did not go as planned, unfortunately) and the instructors there are excellent.  Unless she ends up loving chemistry from this class, which I highly doubt, she will not take the college-level chemistry course during high school.  

 

Interesting how everyone here agrees about physical science not being counted for high school credit.  In our ps district, honors physical science is offered to 8th graders and it counts as a high school credit so that is what we did at home (using high-school curriculum).  

 

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful replies!  They are very much appreciated!

 

 

 

[klmama]

Lori, you pointed out that physical science is a light science. Is earth science considered better or about the same? I had planned for dc to do earth in 8th using a high school text and physical in 9th. Maybe I should switch that?

[Lori D.]

Lori, you pointed out that physical science is a light science. Is earth science considered better or about the same? I had planned for dc to do earth in 8th using a high school text and physical in 9th. Maybe I should switch that?

 

I think it really depends on what materials you use. There are solid middle school Earth Science materials, and there are some high school/college level materials out there for building a solid high school Earth Science credit.

 

Personally, I'd take the student's interests into account, not only in middle school, but into high school as well. :) What would your student enjoy doing in 8th and 9th grades? Earth Science/Physical Science (or vice-versa) -- or something else? What would your student enjoy doing science-wise in high school? Other than trying to get Biology in there in case a potential future college prefers that as one of the sciences, you really have a lot of options -- you really do NOT have to do the typical Physical Science-Biology-Chemistry-Physics line-up. :)

 

Not that homeschoolers need to follow what public schools do, but in case anyone is interested, Physical Science is about a 50-50 split in public schools -- about 1/2 the time done in 8th grade, and 1/2 the time done in 9th grade. (See below for "typical" tracks of science in middle/high school.) However, public schools often don't have the resources to do more than the usual Physical Science, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and an advanced science or possible AP science. Homeschoolers aren't constrained in that same way.

 

BEST of luck, whatever your family decides on! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

_____________________

 

Typical/traditional tracks of science in high school; of course there are always variations and exceptions. I'm just providing a broad generalization here:

 

STEM-based and/or advanced/rigorous track:

7th = Physical Science

8th = Biology

9th = Chemistry

 

"average" track:

7th = General Science or other

8th = Physical Science

9th = Biology

 

non-STEM, lighter Science track:

7th = choice

8th = General Science or other

9th = Physical Science

Edited August 18, 2017 by Lori D.

[GoodGrief]

I find it so hard to advise on these sorts of questions, because "enough" is dependent on the student (the big picture, including the non-academic pieces) and her goals. Her transcript will be just fine for certain schools and programs, but may need some tweaking for others.

 

I'd start browsing the websites of specific colleges that you could see being potential places of interest and look at their minimal requirements. Keep in mind that at some institutions "minimum" will not be enough to gain admission, but at the majority of places, that will be just fine. I would look at their requirements for scholarships as well, if you think merit scholarships will be necessary to make college affordable.

 

The way the local public school does things can be somewhat helpful as a measure of what is needed for college admission, but some of those kids using 8th grade science to meet grad requirements may not be going to college. That's the sort of thing that is helpful to know, so some research is needed.