38carrots Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 What kind of feedback from your istructor / beta reader made you think that you needed revisions? As a beta reader I'm trying to point out every possible positive thing, but the work that I'm reading is very weak. Decent for a beginner, but nowhere near ready for publication. Every beginner mistake--it is there. Yet the person was already told by another beta reader (of a higher pulbished status than me ha-ha) that her work was great. This is also the weakest work in the entire group, and the person has the least self-doubt about it! The work will be made public after copy-editing, and even then, I believe the work will be embarrassing for the writer, if not now, then in the very near future. This is the weakest work in the entire group, and the person has the least self-doubt about it! She truly believes she wrote what she wanted to write and it doesn't need any revisions. Is there anything I can say / do to open her up a little bit? I intend to ask her to talk about her work, why it is imoportant to her, what is she trying to convey etc. I intent to ask open-ended questions about using particular literary devices etc. Is this hopeless, though? Any tips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I doubt there's much you're going to be able to say. Being turned down by every single publisher and agent, or getting horrible reviews if she self-publishes, will be a very effective teacher. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38carrots Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 I doubt there's much you're going to be able to say. Being turned down by every single publisher and agent, or getting horrible reviews if she self-publishes, will be a very effective teacher. I'd still like to try. It will reflect poorly on the entire project, as she is not publishing it by herself. It is a part of a public event. It is frustrating that she can't see how bad it is. I've given feedback on similarly weak writing before. I was told by quite a number of people that it hurt, but was so worth it at the end. But this time we don't even have enough time for her to start considering the idea that she needs to revise. I hope that if I don't shut her down right away, I still have hope. She is an accomplished visual artist. She must know how much work goes into one painting, for example. Why does she think that her first draft of her first story is "perfect?" This doesn't even make sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I'd still like to try. It will reflect poorly on the entire project, as she is not publishing it by herself. It is a part of a public event. It is frustrating that she can't see how bad it is. I've given feedback on similarly weak writing before. I was told by quite a number of people that it hurt, but was so worth it at the end. But this time we don't even have enough time for her to start considering the idea that she needs to revise. I hope that if I don't shut her down right away, I still have hope. She is an accomplished visual artist. She must know how much work goes into one painting, for example. Why does she think that her first draft of her first story is "perfect?" This doesn't even make sense! Who's in charge of the project? That person needs to sit down with her and say, "This doesn't meet the minimum standard for inclusion in this project. You need to rework this and resubmit it." 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah CB Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I can't imagine thinking something was perfect after the first draft. I do think that constructive criticism may help - if she's willing to even consider your comments. I would be really honest, do characters seem flat and undeveloped? Are characters inconsistent or do they act without believable motivation? Does the dialogue ring true? Is the writing smooth and easy to read or is it awkward? Are there things that take you out of the story while you're reading? What could be changed so that you're immersed in the world the writer created for the entire time? Are there places where you feel lost - has there been a change in time or in perspective or in setting and it takes a while to figure out where you are? Is the tense consistent throughout the piece? I do think that very specific comments are probably the best way to go. But, I would also be very sure to point out all of the things the author is doing well and all the things you love about the piece. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I would provide the same type of feedback and guidance you would provide anyone else. What she does with that feedback is on her. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38carrots Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 I can't imagine thinking something was perfect after the first draft. I do think that constructive criticism may help - if she's willing to even consider your comments. I would be really honest, do characters seem flat and undeveloped? Are characters inconsistent or do they act without believable motivation? Does the dialogue ring true? Is the writing smooth and easy to read or is it awkward? Are there things that take you out of the story while you're reading? What could be changed so that you're immersed in the world the writer created for the entire time? Are there places where you feel lost - has there been a change in time or in perspective or in setting and it takes a while to figure out where you are? Is the tense consistent throughout the piece? I do think that very specific comments are probably the best way to go. But, I would also be very sure to point out all of the things the author is doing well and all the things you love about the piece. That was my plan--very detailed and thorough constructive criticism. I have 2000 words on a 500 word story. Element by element and general thoughts. I *am* struggling to find the positives, but I'm making sure I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrapbookbuzz Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Maybe cut that critique down by half. She definitely needs to see that her work is weak. And if she spends ANY time around published authors, they'll be quick to say that there is never a perfect FIRST draft. Writing is so personal, and so much of us is put into it, that it IS hard to take criticism on it. One of my favorite authors (Kris Tualla) has this to say to beginning writers (and I'm paraphrasing): "When sending out queries and getting critiqued, take your ego and wrap it in a soft blanket, then put it in the closet with a chunk of chocolate and a glass of wine, then shut the door." She states it so much more eloquently but the point is that ALL authors get critiqued and MOST first drafts, especially first stories, are carp. They just are. Keep in mind, you may say all this to that gal and she'll still submit it as-is anyway. There is only so much you can do! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktgrok Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Pick your battles. You can't make her a good writer, but you can pick a few things to help her strengthen. Figure out where the most bang for the buck will be. Ignore the copy edit level stuff, since someone else is going to do that. Focus on some big things. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuPanda Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 If people are in this project for feedback, be honest. Someone has to tell the emperor that he's naked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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