happyhome Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 Hi all, Looking for some BTDT advice. We are considering either online AP Lang or AP Lit as the next step in English for dd. We'd ideally be looking for an asynchronous class with minimum busy work. DD is a natural writer and got a 36 on the ACT language section. Most of the schools she's considering will give her credit for ENG 101 for Lang and elective credit for Lit (small LACs). For a strong reader and writer who enjoys fiction more than non-fiction, would you take Lang and opt out of Freshman Comp or take Lit (probably more enjoyable) and only get elective credit. Alternatively, would you just take both? Is Lang really necessary for an already good writer? She wants to be a fiction writer and will probably be working toward an MFA after undergrad. We're looking at Lili Serbicki's classes at PA or AIM. I've read all the great reviews of Maya's class, but we're in a competitive speech and debate league so the "daily" format of Maya's class would probably back us up too much. DE is not really an option either due to time constraints and travel so AP seems like a better fit. Any input would be so appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 How about taking AP Lit but taking both exams? She'd probably pass the AP Language exam with minimal studying. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 How about taking AP Lit but taking both exams? She'd probably pass the AP Language exam with minimal studying. That's an interesting idea. Do you think she can get a 5 by self studying? She'll need a 5 to opt out of ENG 101. They don't accept anything less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKS Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 That's an interesting idea. Do you think she can get a 5 by self studying? She'll need a 5 to opt out of ENG 101. They don't accept anything less. I have no idea, but it sounds like she is an excellent reader and writer, based on that 36. I'd take a look at a sample exam and see what you think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 I have no idea, but it sounds like she is an excellent reader and writer, based on that 36. I'd take a look at a sample exam and see what you think. Thanks Kai. I didn't even think of it but I have a prep book. I'm going to give her a practice exam and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
learners4life Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 The idea to take AP Lit and self-study for AP Lang is good, except she would miss out on the important feedback regarding essays. My daughter also got a 36 on the Lang portion of ACT, and an 800 on the SAT, but she wouldn't have scored a 5 on the AP if she hadn't known the ins and outs of the writing that is specific to each exam. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted April 12, 2017 Share Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) The idea to take AP Lit and self-study for AP Lang is good, except she would miss out on the important feedback regarding essays. My daughter also got a 36 on the Lang portion of ACT, and an 800 on the SAT, but she wouldn't have scored a 5 on the AP if she hadn't known the ins and outs of the writing that is specific to each exam. My son did both because he loved working with Maya Inspektor, but if I had to choose one to take, it would be Lang. AP Language focuses on nonfiction writing and with a good instructor, it's a very valuable experience in preparation for college writing. At my son's college, AP Lang. and Lit. credits play out in the following manner: A 4 or a 5 on AP Language earns the student 3 credits and it covers half of the student's general university writing requirements. Students without AP Language take both WRTG 101 and 102. Students with AP Lang. credit are exempt from one writing class and take a second one, WRTG 106. This means you are in class with only students who have done well on the AP. Lang. test. A 4 or a 5 on AP Literature earns 6 credits total. At least 3 of those will typically meet one General Education requirement. The other may serve as one or end up as an elective. If you do AP Lit, you might as well take the SAT 2 Subject test in Literature. Edited April 13, 2017 by swimmermom3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 The idea to take AP Lit and self-study for AP Lang is good, except she would miss out on the important feedback regarding essays. My daughter also got a 36 on the Lang portion of ACT, and an 800 on the SAT, but she wouldn't have scored a 5 on the AP if she hadn't known the ins and outs of the writing that is specific to each exam. Hmmmmm....well that's interesting feedback. Thank you for that. I had her look through the reading list tonite and she's mildly interested. She's taking APUSH next year too and I think AP Lang dovetails nicely with that. Let me see how she does on this practice test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyhome Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 My son did both because he loved working with Maya Inspektor, but if I had to choose one to take, it would be Lang. AP Language focuses on nonfiction writing and with a good instructor, it's a very valuable experience in preparation for college writing. At my son's college, AP Lang. and Lit. credits play out in the following manner: A 4 or a 5 on AP Language earns the student 3 credits and it covers half of the student's general university writing requirements. Students without AP Language take both WRTG 101 and 102. Students with AP Lang. credit are exempt from one writing class and take a second one, WRTG 106. This means you are in class with only students who have done well on the AP. Lang. test. A 4 or a 5 on AP Literature earns 6 credits total. At least 3 of those will typically meet one General Education requirement. The other may serve as one or end up as an elective. If you do AP Lit, you might as well take the SAT 2 Subject test in Literature. If she takes AP Lit with the exam, what would be the value of the SAT 2 Subject test? What am I missing here? Good point on Lang writing. She can write a good essay. I'm more concerned about research papers. I've looked at a dozen AP Lang syllabi online. I don't see research papers covered. I had always planned on her taking a specific course just for that. If Lang covers research papers too, then it might be a no brainer. She really doesn't hate the idea of Lang. I think she'd just enjoy Lit more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momto6inIN Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 We haven't BTDT, so I don't know how he'll score on the exam, but my DS is self-studying for AP Lang right now. He is more of a STEM guy, not really as into language as your DD sounds like she is, and the only challenge for him so far in AP Lang has been the time crunch aspect of writing a well developed essay in 40 minutes. His essays compare favorably to the sample essays I've read that score a 4 or a 5. I would think that self-studying with a good AP test prep book would prepare her well for the exam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjbucks1 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 My ds also had a 36 on the English section of the ACT, but I do not think he would have scored a 5 on the AP exam without getting feedback on his writing (I think last year only 7% of test takers received a 5 on the AP Lit exam...not sure about Language). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodGrief Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) I would probably do AP Lang for the credit (if you are fairly certain she will attend a school that offers that credit.) My daughter (freshman at Princeton) just said that AP Lang is a class worth taking because it is extremely useful for learning to write college essays. She does not recommend trying to self study. She said Lit teaches you to closely examine what you are reading, and in so doing, it improves your writing, but that of the two, she would pick AP Lang. She took it from Maya Inspektor. Ms. Inspektor gave her references for college too :-) Edited April 13, 2017 by Gr8lander 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 FWIW, I bet she could nail the Lang exam with minimal prep. Got a prep book/test, try it, and see where she scores w/ no studying. I bet she'll do great, then she can use the prep book to make sure she gets in any missing skills (identified via the practice test(s), etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) I would probably do AP Lang for the credit (if you are fairly certain she will attend a school that offers that credit.) My daughter (freshman at Princeton) just said that AP Lang is a class worth taking because it is extremely useful for learning to write college essays. She does not recommend trying to self study. She said Lit teaches you to closely examine what you are reading, and in so doing, it improves your writing, but that of the two, she would pick AP Lang. She took it from Maya Inspektor. Ms. Inspektor gave her references for college too :-) I agree as did my son. Maya's AP Language class helped him hit the ground running this year as a freshman. All of his classes have been fairly paper-heavy and it is not going to slow down. Next year, he'll have two semesters of research methodology classes that will build on each other. If I was concerned only with checking an AP box and I knew for sure that my student was a strong academic writer, then I might advise self-study. However, if I was determined to have my student truly hone his writing skills in order to survive in college, I'd go with a class with a good instructor that offers lots of timely feedback. ETA: I forgot to add that Ms. Inspektor was also a reference for ds on his college applications. Edited April 16, 2017 by swimmermom3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 If she takes AP Lit with the exam, what would be the value of the SAT 2 Subject test? What am I missing here? Good point on Lang writing. She can write a good essay. I'm more concerned about research papers. I've looked at a dozen AP Lang syllabi online. I don't see research papers covered. I had always planned on her taking a specific course just for that. If Lang covers research papers too, then it might be a no brainer. She really doesn't hate the idea of Lang. I think she'd just enjoy Lit more. Some colleges/universities may require SAT Subject tests. One of our state universities requires homeschoolers to have the SAT Subject in either Math I or II and another test in your choice of subjects. During my ds's junior year, we weren't really sure what he was going to do for college, so he took Math I to be safe and then because he was taking AP Literature and AP Biology, he just took those SAT subject tests at the end of the year as well. It's really no big deal after the AP exams. With regards to research papers, when ds took AP Lang., the students entered the National Peace Institute's essay contest and that year's topic was security sector reform. That was definitely a research project and for my son, it was a personal turning point in his areas of academic focus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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