My dd may be adhd?

[5hskids]

So my YDD started vision therapy a while back because she was having trouble with schoolwork. I had her vision checked and it turned out that she has lazy eye and her eye is turning in and it's pretty weak. She was at VT today and the Dr. Told my DH that he has had many adhd patients over the last 20 years. And some that forgot their medicine alot and he said our DD was by far the worst patient when it comes to staying on task or getting distracted. He has a very hard time getting her to start/finish a task. My husband has to take her so he can make her do whatever dr. needs her to do that session. I never had her evaluated because I do not want her on meds. But I'm wondering if there is anything else besides meds. Or if anyone has any kids on meds what are they like? Are they zoned out or have like suicidal thoughts or paranoia (these are all the things Im scared of.)

Edited for title and a lot of rambling lol and also to say I called my son's pediatrician today to see if he could see her and at first they told me no they weren't taking any adhd patients but I explained that her vision therapist expressed concerns about her and so they're gonna see her in a month.

Edited April 12, 2017 by 5hskids

[PeterPan]

The only thing that even half works like meds is caffeine, and that's because it too is a stimulant. You would only use a TINY amount for a dc that small. You can google the amounts if you want to try. Do you drink tea? Don't use sweet tea, because then you're adding tons of sugar. Try just like a glass or half a glass of tea and see what happens. She may noticeably slow down, calm down, or get more tired.

 

You can also have her checked for retained reflexes. Sometimes that will be part of the issue.

 

No, in reality meds are the most common choice because they're astonishingly expensive. I'm not a med advocate, and we did without them for many, many years. However I really think you have to use common sense about this.

 

-how are her standardized test scores?

-is she a danger to herself or others?

-is her behavior hindering her ability to participate in activities?

 

These are very important issues! Some kids with ADHD will benefit from Social Thinking instruction. You can google it. Sometimes they have issues with perspective taking, group plan, body in the group, and other foundational concepts. There *is* data showing that kids who receive this kind of behavioral intervention BEFORE meds actually have BETTER results than kids who do meds first or either approach alone. 

 

You can search the Social Thinking site by age. The We Thinkers materials might turn out to be a great fit for her. Also consider Zones of Regulation or ALERT. All these programs are trying to help her NOTICE more about her behavior, the responses of others, etc. This can improve her own self-monitoring and help her be more appropriate. Zones and ALERT are both for self-regulation

 

You can also pursue "mindfulness" as a way of improving self-regulation. Just a few minutes of mindfulness can give a 30% bump in executive function. It's an extremely valuable strategy and it costs nothing. 

[PeterPan]

Adding, because you have not done a full psych eval yet, you probably don't realize that it's highly probable she has low processing speed. Until you get a psych eval to clarify what is going on, I would not assume she's merely being bad or obstinate.

 

You can also increase structure and use motivators.

[5hskids]

 

-how are her standardized test scores?

-is she a danger to herself or others?

-is her behavior hindering her ability to participate in activities?

We haven't done any standardized tests.

But unless she had someone to watch her for every single problem(literally) she wouldn't do the 1st problem.

She has done extremely dangerous things that it would seem as if she wasn't thinking At all. For instance nearly 2 years old we were out of state visiting relatives. We took the kids to the park and my 2 were playing on the slide. My youngest came down the slide and I helped her off my oldest came down and I helped her off the 3 seconds between helping my youngest and my oldest. Ydd had taken off at a full Sprint running toward the lake that was nearby. I was stuck between leaving my newborn (in a stroller) and my 2 year old to chase my 1 year old or dragging them both with me to get across the sand and to the lake to get her, needless to say if my SIL hasn't spotted her she may have come close to drowning thankfully she had only enough time to reach the water's edge dive in and my SIL grabbed her but she wasn't even afraid. She's was laughing the whole time. Not maniacally lol but she wasn't even scared that she was submerged underwater for at least 3 seconds ish. And that was probably the 2nd time she's ever been around a body of water minus a bathtub.

 

She is often Being called down at youth at church not getting in trouble just having to constantly be reminded.

[5hskids]

Also I'm going to have to allot of research I . The other things in your post because I have never heard of anything you mentioned besides the caffeine. But I appreciate you and I am just wondering because if someone who spends 30 minutes around her 2 times a week is worried. I'm thinking I should be worried lol.

[PeterPan]

The point of those questions is to me those are serious lines where you push over to meds sooner, rather than later. If a dc is a danger to herself or others, I would have EXCEPTIONALLY short leash with that. She's 6, turning 7. She's at an age where kids begin to lose access to opportunities when their behaviors are not appropriate. To me, you're describing behaviors that need some kind of intervention. I personally don't view meds as a starting point or a solution, but they are a TOOL. If they bring her to a place where she can receive some Social Thinking intervention, that would be good.

 

What often happens with girls, and just what I'm saying I see, is people go oh well I just taught her and worked with her. So the parents try to make it work, are frustrated but embrace the pleasures of ADHD. Then the kid is in junior high and dealing with the CONSEQUENCES of serious ADHD. Doesn't matter what the reason is for the ADHD. Like we can get esoteric about that all day. I'm saying reality hits and the kid is struggling to do their academics and forming their self-view around school is hard, I hate school, I'm dumb, etc. 

 

So depression is actually your BIGGEST symptom of ADHD girls come junior high. Bust the cycle and think through consequences. What happens if you leave her with no intervention for xyz? I like a wide variety of interventions. More support, more structure, Social Thinking instruction, meds, low worker to student ratio, etc. etc. Even working on "obedience" doesn't mean her body is going to just calm down. She's still going to be ADHD inside, still dealing with the consequences. Me, I like unmedicated ADHD. My favorite people in the world are all unmedicated with ADHD. But sometimes it's really not a practical way to get through school, especially high school and college.

Edited April 11, 2017 by OhElizabeth

[Storygirl]

5hskids, I just happened to click on your thread and saw your questions. You will probably get more useful responses if you change your thread title from "vision therapy" to something about ADHD and meds. You can change your title if you go to your first post and hit the "edit" button.

 

[Storygirl]

You can talk to your pediatrician about possible ADHD. He or she may run some testing or may refer you out to a pediatric psychiatrist. Some doctors manage the meds themselves, while others want a psychiatrist to handle it.

 

The ADHD medications can have some side effects, but there are many choices, and doctors can work with you to find a medication and dosage that is best for your child.

 

We found when we started meds for our son, that we could tell pretty quickly whether that med was working for DS or not. The main side effect we have to deal with is a diminished appetite, but DS works around that by eating more food once the meds wear off. You can also have a short-term dose, so that you can give one pill in the morning, have it wear off by lunch so that the child can eat, then give the second dose for the afternoon. Because you are homeschooling, that could be an option for you.

 

Some of the meds can be expensive, yes. What DS takes now is expensive. But when he was on the short-acting dose of a generic, it was very affordable.

 

Over the last couple of years, there have been some very involved discussions of ADHD meds on the learning challenges board. If you search past threads, you should be able to glean a lot of information about pros and cons, and about the worries of parents considering whether to do it or not.

 

I was pretty much against meds, but they have made a huge difference for my son. I have another child with probable but undiagnosed ADHD who is not medicated, so it really has to be considered carefully for each individual.

 

I agree that if you have safety concerns and that level of distraction and impulsivity, it is serious enough to at least discuss with your doctor. Make an appointment just for that discussion and do not tack it on to an annual well-visit.

[Tiramisu]

The point of those questions is to me those are serious lines where you push over to meds sooner, rather than later. If a dc is a danger to herself or others, I would have EXCEPTIONALLY short leash with that. She's 6, turning 7. She's at an age where kids begin to lose access to opportunities when their behaviors are not appropriate. To me, you're describing behaviors that need some kind of intervention. I personally don't view meds as a starting point or a solution, but they are a TOOL. If they bring her to a place where she can receive some Social Thinking intervention, that would be good.

 

What often happens with girls, and just what I'm saying I see, is people go oh well I just taught her and worked with her. So the parents try to make it work, are frustrated but embrace the pleasures of ADHD. Then the kid is in junior high and dealing with the CONSEQUENCES of serious ADHD. Doesn't matter what the reason is for the ADHD. Like we can get esoteric about that all day. I'm saying reality hits and the kid is struggling to do their academics and forming their self-view around school is hard, I hate school, I'm dumb, etc.

 

So depression is actually your BIGGEST symptom of ADHD girls come junior high. Bust the cycle and think through consequences. What happens if you leave her with no intervention for xyz? I like a wide variety of interventions. More support, more structure, Social Thinking instruction, meds, low worker to student ratio, etc. etc. Even working on "obedience" doesn't mean her body is going to just calm down. She's still going to be ADHD inside, still dealing with the consequences. Me, I like unmedicated ADHD. My favorite people in the world are all unmedicated with ADHD. But sometimes it's really not a practical way to get through school, especially high school and college.

This is so true. We lived it.

 

I kick myself a lot for not getting interventions earlier but our pediatricians didn't understand the serousness of our struggles and the safety issues and present me with options. I only learned a lot later of what could have been done for her.

 

The lake thing sounds exactly like my one dd. Reading that brought back a lot of memories of tge things my dd would do. And the terrible feelings of having to leave other kids to rescue her.

 

Don't go to the pediatrician with a mind only for meds. Insist on concrete suggestions for help teaching her to manage her behavior, the names of professionals, places to call.

 

I probably could have spared us all a lot of grief if I could have done that, if I were open to meds earlier, too. Because once the depression hits, all of it gets a lot worse.

[BooksandBoys]

I'm another who was very against meds. We were doing therapy (OT, PT, CBT) but I wouldn't use meds because I was worried about negative side effects, particularly depression and anxiety. We ended up trying meds almost a year ago when we'd reached the point that he was a danger to himself (for example: was still darting into traffic at nearly 8 but having tantrums and refusals over being required to hold my hand because he knew he was "too old") and most of his daily interactions were negative because he couldn't follow through with any instructions and we, his loving parents, as well as friends were ALWAYS frustrated with him.

 

Meds didn't fix everything, but they brought the difficult behaviors in line enough that we could go back to enjoying each other most of the time. He hasn't shown any depression or anxiety. If anything, his ASD symptoms are more obvious when his ADHD is medicated, but neither I nor that doctors think it's because the meds affect his ASD but rather that the meds resolve ADHD to the point that we can SEE the ASD that was covered up by all the forgetfulness and wandering and darting.

[summerreading]

So my YDD started vision therapy a while back because she was having trouble with schoolwork. I had her vision checked and it turned out that she has lazy eye and her eye is turning in and it's pretty weak. She was at VT today and the Dr. Told my DH that he has had many adhd patients over the last 20 years. And some that forgot their medicine alot and he said our DD was by far the worst patient when it comes to staying on task or getting distracted. He has a very hard time getting her to start/finish a task. My husband has to take her so he can make her do whatever dr. needs her to do that session. I never had her evaluated because I do not want her on meds. But I'm wondering if there is anything else besides meds. Or if anyone has any kids on meds what are they like? Are they zoned out or have like suicidal thoughts or paranoia (these are all the things Im scared of.)

Edited for title and a lot of rambling lol and also to say I called my son's pediatrician today to see if he could see her and at first they told me no they weren't taking any adhd patients but I explained that her vision therapist expressed concerns about her and so they're gonna see her in a month.

 

 

I have been trying out the supplements from Native Remedies for me and my oldest and my husband. They both seem to be doing well so far. Downside is their supplements can be pricey, but you can find them on Amazon and ebay for cheaper. 

[kbutton]

I'm another who was very against meds. We were doing therapy (OT, PT, CBT) but I wouldn't use meds because I was worried about negative side effects, particularly depression and anxiety. We ended up trying meds almost a year ago when we'd reached the point that he was a danger to himself (for example: was still darting into traffic at nearly 8 but having tantrums and refusals over being required to hold my hand because he knew he was "too old") and most of his daily interactions were negative because he couldn't follow through with any instructions and we, his loving parents, as well as friends were ALWAYS frustrated with him.

 

Meds didn't fix everything, but they brought the difficult behaviors in line enough that we could go back to enjoying each other most of the time. He hasn't shown any depression or anxiety. If anything, his ASD symptoms are more obvious when his ADHD is medicated, but neither I nor that doctors think it's because the meds affect his ASD but rather that the meds resolve ADHD to the point that we can SEE the ASD that was covered up by all the forgetfulness and wandering and darting.

 

This is exactly our story as well. My son also had issues with his own pleasure activities--he couldn't always stay on task or organize those things either.

 

I will add three things: We did have trouble with some specific formulations of the same drug (one generic would work, but another would make him anxious). That was not a big deal in the long-run--we just make sure they pharmacy has the one that works for us and have them note all this in his pharmacy file.

 

Two, we found that my son was LESS anxious when the meds were working because he was more competent to do what he needed to do. It relieved the feeling of being overwhelmed, and then other things fell into place. 

 

Three: I think that a child's response to lots of things varies with the amount of self-awareness the child has and how well the therapies (including meds) line up with that child's needs. So, my son was anxious from being overwhelmed, and he was overwhelmed from being aware of his issues. Meds took care of being overwhelmed, and he could do the things he wanted as well as the things we asked of him. That might not be another child's mix of issues, so that might not play out the same way for another child. 

[nature girl]

We tried many, many alternative therapies and supplements for my DD, they MAY have helped a little, and working on how we addressed behaviors helped as well, but the real change came once we started meds. (You can find my DD's story if you search for my threads here...Look up "Anna's Mom" as well.)

 

We went through 3 separate meds...All worked quite well, with really minimal side effects, but we wanted to see if we could do even better. Because one made her a bit more emotional/perfectionistic, another made her irritable, especially during the come-down at the end of the day. Now she's on Concerta, and really has no side effects at all other than increased hyperactivity 11 hours or so after dosing. And her appetite is fine, she's gaining weight completely normally. Really none of the meds had the side effects I was scared of, and I think those more significant issues are probably more rare than it seems when you do a Google search. Those of us who are happy with results don't tend to post all over the place, in the way those facing issues might.

 

I don't love the idea of medicating, I'll never be happy about it or completely comfortable with it, but I do love the results. It actually shocks me when the meds wear off, or when I'm with her in the morning before she's taken her pill, seeing this wiggly kid who can't sit at the table for more than 5 minutes at a time. Like, who IS this kid? Never mind that I lived with that kid for a full six years before we found what I consider the "real" Anna...The rest of the day she's herself, her personality hasn't changed at all, she's fun and funny, talkative, happy, loving, creative and playful, but a better version of that self, a version that was buried under all that internal wildness.

[Guest]

I would suggest getting evaluations. The meds are not something any doctor can force on you. After you have had evaluations and know what you are dealing with, then you can decide what to do about meds. 

Edited August 14, 2017 by Guest

[5hskids]

I've been reflecting on the past 7 years.I did see a doc. Once about her. I feel a little foolish for not getting a 2nd opinion now looking back. In my defense,not necessarily a good defense,I was young and inexperienced with peds. And Drs. in general and I was raised that adhd is something people came up with to drug their kids so they didn't have to fool with them. (No joke my family is from a very rural area and very old timey about stuff including Drs and medicines) and so I kind of didn't want to but also I knew my kid was so wild it wasn't normal lol. I did talk to her pediatrician when she was around 20 months or so about her being adhd and he made out like I was just overwhelmed by having 3 kids.I also made the appointment to talk to him about my 3 year old who wouldn't quit eating anything gritty (still does) that she could get her hands on. The daycare could not get her to quit chewing up all their certain textured toys.She also was staying badly constipated(still does) and not wanting to eat any real food and gagging if certain kinds or textures of food touched her mouth. She still does this.She was Also having tantrums that seem to come from nowhere and I was worried she might be autistic or something.(these were not the only things just the reason I made the appointment.) but anyways he just said allot of kids chew on things that's how kids learn sometimes and that I had a picky eater and she wasn't constipated she just wasn't going because she wasn't eating. All kids throw fits sometimes over seemingly meaningless things. And that I should be thankful my daughter was able to be active and lively. He also said that 2 is hardly old enough to say she is hyperactive or impulsive. I brought it up because she was a "runner" as in trying to run away in stores restaurants parks or wherever she got the urge to. Also that she was jumping from high places or doing scary things like that. Sometimes I would be so scared I would cry and I never never cry) He said it's normal for some kids to be daredevils. I have noticed other signs she was probably adhd but I guess everyone held this guy up on a pedestal as a ped. And I kind of trusted that and thought maybe my hormones (as I recently had a baby) was also playing role in my concerns. And like I previously said I have come to a point where I just accepted this for what is was and decided she is who she is and that's all there is to it.And even if She were I'm way to scared to try meds. And then when the VT was concerned I thought I guess he barely knows the kid like an hour a week knows her and he's spotted her tendencies and he's worried maybe I shouldn't be so passive about it. And I hope that in a month we may get some answers and help for my girl.And I appreciate yalls comments. I guess this is just me thinking out loud. I'm looking back and seeing how much of a struggle we've truly had and I always chalk it up to "Well anyone with 3 4 5 kids probably deals with this too." Kind of thing but really I guess I've not really been in denial but more of well this is my lot in life type of thing kwim. Because seriously I feel like some days I'm literally on the go with the kids from before my eyes open until after my eyes close lol.

 

Eta: made some spelling mistakes and also I saw that in my original post I said that I had never had her evaluated because of not wanting meds..but I wanted to add that I had forgotten about the Drs appointment mentioned above until my husband was reminding that I had talked to her old pedi about it once but it was like a 10 minute appointment where he shot down all my concerns with what I kind of accepted as rational answers. And I was there with an 3 year old and almost 2 year old and a newborn alone as my husband had got called into work and had to leave.And I didn't have my whole attention on the appointment and the Drs office was really antikid like it was a family practice but if any of the kids were loud or mean they got dirty looks and we got plenty that day lol. So I was sort of embarrassed and ready to leave soon after I arrived lol..(We don't go there anymore btw)

Edited April 13, 2017 by 5hskids

[Guest]

5hskids, you have been dealing with a great deal :grouphug: Now it's time for some answers. There are enough flags there. You need to find someone qualified though. The "professionals" you have dealt with so far do not sound like they will be of any use to you.

[PeterPan]

Yes, autism would explain all the things you've listed. The answer is an eval with an autism clinic. Can you make that happen?