Can I please get some help with DS's transcript

[lewelma]

I hope this is ok.  I don't see a lot of transcripts being posted. Please don't quote the transcript, just the questions which I put first

 

So in general I need to figure out how to do the honors designations if that is what I choose to do in the end, but I have a few more questions too.  So here they are!

 

Questions:

1. Do the math courses taken before high school get an honor's classification because we used AoPS?  Do I include his 3 WOOT classes at AoPS, they are time consuming and very high level.

 

2.For second year science courses, I've designated 'advanced'.  He had to do the first year material in addition to the second year material in that course to take the exams.  MIT said not to list year 1 and year 2 separately.  They just wanted to see the level of courses you got up to.  Do I put honors in front of Advanced?  Do I need to indicate 2nd year in the title somewhere or is that what 'advanced' means?

 

3. DS has been working on a post secondary diploma in music performance starting last year.  Does that make the last 2 classes honors? He does take courses with the Associate Concertmaster of the top Symphony here, and takes a 4 hour saturday course at the university, and he entered the correspondence school as an 'elite musician' which means that a member of the national body had to write saying he was top for the country for his age.  Does this kind of work indicate that ALL of the courses should be honors?

 

4. Music theory was a 10th grade rigorous national exam out of the UK that he did in 8th grade which is why I put it in.  Is this right? 

 

5. I'm a bit stumped on honors for Mandarin given what 8fill said in the other thread.  DS used hardest university textbook out there, but the intensity of his work happened before highschool. He is still using the hardest textbook, but only did a half class in 9th and 10th grade.  Can you have honors for a half class?  especially if you spread the half class out for the year?

 

6. Bit stumped on English.  DS does all his composition through the correspondence school (not like correspondence schools in the USA, here they use the exact same curriculum, exams, and assessments as the schools -- all nationally moderated).  But he does a large amount of deep reading with me of books like War and Peace.  So seems like all of them should be honors because of all the extra high level work he does.   Also, is it better to put in detailed course names?  or just English 9, 10, 11, 12?  I've put down both so you guys can look at them.

 

7. And thanks guys for helping me sort out the history/social studies on the other thread.  They look good. No honors.

 

8. Still unclear on the transcript by date, but I may need to stick with the subject one given some of the nontraditional timings we have done.  Need to think about that and what the universities actually prefer to see.

 

OK, I think that's it.

 

 

(Italics are for courses taken before highschool). 

Math

Algebra 1

Geometry

Algebra 2

Number Theory

Combinatorics

Olympiad Geometry  0.5

Honors PreCalculus

Honors Calculus 1

Honors Calculus 2

Intro to Linear Algebra

MATH251 Linear Algebra

MATH245 Analysis

Honors Multivariate Calculus

MATH241 Number Theory

 

Science

Honors Physics

Advanced Physics

Advanced Chemistry

Advanced Biology

 

Music

Music Theory 0.5

Music Performance 1

Music Performance 2  

Honors Music Performance 3

Honors Music Performance 4

 

Foreign Language  

Mandarin 1

Mandarin  2

Mandarin 3  

Mandarin 4  

 

English

Honors English 9

Honors English 10

Honors English 11

Honors English 12

 

History/Social Studies

Contemporary World Problems

US History in a World Context

The History of Western Thought

Comparative government 0.5

Macroeconomics 0.5

 

 

+++++

Alternative names for English classes (not in order):

Russian Literature  

Postmodern Literature  

Classic and Modern Science Fiction

World Literature

Edited March 4, 2017 by lewelma

[8filltheheart]

Any course that was done through the correspondence school, I would not include on a transcript. They will be on the school's transcript. I can't tell from your description what is what. Maybe include a separate reading list?

 

In terms of Mandarin, I personally consider pace and output as part of my evaluation. For example, a middle schooler doing what might be a high school level material but at half the pace of high school does not equal high school credit for our homeschool. That is just my personal filter. Others might do it differently.

 

i classify courses as honors if I know that the class is beyond the level of content in a typical high school classroom. (Btw, I disagree with the assessment in the other thread that they need to be using college textbooks. That is most definitely not how schools classify classes as honors. I don't even use textbooks for most courses.)

Edited March 4, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[EKS]

1. Do the math courses taken before high school get an honor's classification because we used AoPS?  Do I include his 3 WOOT classes at AoPS, they are time consuming and very high level.

 

If you're planning to give your own courses an honors designation, then, yes, absolutely, call them honors.  If he took the courses through AoPS, and he did it after they received accreditation, then you should probably call them outside classes.  I listed all outside classes (with the exact same name as the provider's) on my son's transcript and made a note of where they were taken.  I would list the WOOT classes as extracurriculars.

 

2.For second year science courses, I've designated 'advanced'.  He had to do the first year material in addition to the second year material in that course to take the exams.  MIT said not to list year 1 and year 2 separately.  They just wanted to see the level of courses you got up to.  Do I put honors in front of Advanced?  Do I need to indicate 2nd year in the title somewhere or is that what 'advanced' means?

 

I think just saying "advanced" is fine.  

 

3. DS has been working on a post secondary diploma in music performance starting last year.  Does that make the last 2 classes honors? He does take courses with the Associate Concertmaster of the top Symphony here, and takes a 4 hour saturday course at the university, and he entered the correspondence school as an 'elite musician' which means that a member of the national body had to write saying he was top for the country for his age.  Does this kind of work indicate that ALL of the courses should be honors?

 

Should this be considered an extracurricular?  If not, from what you've written here, I'd consider it an outside class and if you're listing them on your transcript, call them by the same name as the school does.

 

4. Music theory was a 10th grade rigorous national exam out of the UK that he did in 8th grade which is why I put it in.  Is this right? 

 

Again--if you decide to consider music stuff an extracurricular, I'd just list the exam score somewhere (perhaps where you are listing his math contest results?).

 

5. I'm a bit stumped on honors for Mandarin given what 8fill said in the other thread.  DS used hardest university textbook out there, but the intensity of his work happened before highschool. He is still using the hardest textbook, but only did a half class in 9th and 10th grade.  Can you have honors for a half class?  especially if you spread the half class out for the year?

 

This is where listing by subject is helpful.  It seems to me that it should be acceptable to call a 0.5 credit class honors though.

 

6. Bit stumped on English.  DS does all his composition through the correspondence school (not like correspondence schools in the USA, here they use the exact same curriculum, exams, and assessments as the schools -- all nationally moderated).  But he does a large amount of deep reading with me of books like War and Peace.  So seems like all of them should be honors because of all the extra high level work he does.   Also, is it better to put in detailed course names?  or just English 9, 10, 11, 12?  I've put down both so you guys can look at them.

 

If he did composition through a school, I'd list that as a separate class for 0.5 credits each year (or whatever is appropriate) and call the class what the school calls it.  Then I'd use the specific titles for the literature piece that he did at home and list them as honors if that is what you're doing.

[lewelma]

Any course that was done through the correspondence school, I would not include on a transcript. They will be on the school's transcript. I can't tell from your description what is what

 

I thought that you put all courses taken externally on a homeschool transcript.  Like university courses or online courses.  I don't view the correspondence school courses any differently. Do I have this wrong?

 

I will say that MIT asked for a summary document, including everything intertwined by year preferably so that they could make sense of ds's schooling experience, but they require this from everyone. Is this different than the homeschool transcript?  

 

So DS's application will have transcripts from the correspondence school, the university, AoPS (I think), Royal School for music (I think). The problem with the correspondence school is that it is not like correspondence schools in the USA, so I don't think I will be using the name. It is called Te Kura.  All subjects are broken up into units that each appear on the transcript separately.  DS will not have grades for classes, only for assessments.  This is because he had to get the course done in a calendar year to get a course grade, but he started midyear, so couldn't get the work done in 4 months. So *I* will have to give the course grade, which obviously is based on the assessment marks.  In addition, teachers can build a class in anyway they want, so the local school created a philosophy course using the english assessments and religion assessments.  But on the transcript, 'philosophy' will never be listed, only the marks on the individual assessments grouped by subject.  So all the english assessments that the philosophy class uses will still fall under english.  This is why the transcript including correspondence courses will be so important for ds.  I was planning on using the science writing assessments for more practice in English.  So if he does English 12 with a focus on science writing, the assessments on his transcript will be listed under chemistry and Biology. I know, clear as mud. Suggestions?

 

Maybe include a separate reading list?

Can definitely do that, but I thought they didn't really look at it.  I was going to put the major books or authors that he read into the course descriptions. 

[lewelma]

In terms of Mandarin, I personally consider pace and output as part of my evaluation. For example, a middle schooler doing what might be a high school level material but at half the pace of high school does not equal high school credit for our homeschool. That is just my personal filter. Others might do it differently.

 

i classify courses as honors if I know that the class is beyond the level of content in a typical high school classroom. (Btw, I disagree with the assessment in the other thread that they need to be using college textbooks. That is most definitely not how schools classify classes as honors. I don't even use textbooks for most courses.)

 

Good to know about the mandarin.  As a 7th and 8th grader, he got through Boya 1, twice.  It is typically used in a double mandarin class in university (so worth 2 university classes but done in 1 term). It is considered the hardest textbook out there, and requires student typically to have done some other mandarin first, which ds did in 5th and 6th grade.  So I'm good with high school classification for these 2 courses. Can't tell with honors though.

 

Glad to hear about the textbooks, because we are using many.  How do you list the materials you use? 

[8filltheheart]

If a student attend a a public school or DEs here, I would only incorporate the courses as exactly on those transcripts and indicate they are on a separate transcript. You absolutely cannot rename or re-credit accredited transcripts and they HAVE to be sent. (They can revoke everything if anything is excluded.)

 

I think you are thinking about online tutors or courses that are simply used as supplemental teaching. Those are not official courses or required transcripts.

[lewelma]

Arrgh!  I just lost my entire post! one more time....

 

 

 

If you're planning to give your own courses an honors designation, then, yes, absolutely, call them honors.  If he took the courses through AoPS, and he did it after they received accreditation, then you should probably call them outside classes.  I listed all outside classes (with the exact same name as the provider's) on my son's transcript and made a note of where they were taken.  I would list the WOOT classes as extracurriculars.

 

Wait. What?  I have no idea what you are talking about.  What is the difference between an outside class and a accreditation?  And how does this affect my transcript?

 

MIT has a page where all students make a global transcript to make sure that admissions can understand how all the pieces fit together.  I thought this was a transcript and that I would make one and give it to all universities.  That this one list would include all the courses my ds took at home or through outsider providers, and I would simply note where it was taken.

 

My ds's transcript from Te Kura will not have any course titles.  It will only list the individual units that he did in each of his courses.  He cannot get a course grade because his courses were not completed in a calendar year, because he entered midyear and could not be ready in 4 months for the final exam. I will obviously explain this in one of the other documents.  DS will have the distinction of his entire certificate at the excellence level. The system works differently here than in the USA.  So the local school runs a philosophy course using the english and religion assessments because there are no philosophy assessments.  The assessments are written broadly enough that they can be used in this way.  However, on the *transcript*, philosophy will not be listed, and the assessments will fall under the english and religion sections.  So I was planning on using the research papers for Chemistry, Bio, and physics in the second half of his senior year to create an english course that had a focus in scientific writing.  However, this is not a course title that would appear anywhere on the transcript.  All the assessments will fall under the science categories.

 

We have basically used Te Kura to get recognition to my ds's homeschool work.  No different than how you guys do it in america when you self study physics and then take the AP exam.  So I was going to list the courses on a homeschool transcript, and then give grades based on the exams/assessments from Te Kura or other providers.  Is this the right way to go?

 

 

If he did composition through a school, I'd list that as a separate class for 0.5 credits each year (or whatever is appropriate) and call the class what the school calls it.  Then I'd use the specific titles for the literature piece that he did at home and list them as honors if that is what you're doing.

 

There is no course listing.   The assessments are generic and will be separately listed as follows:

 

Form developed personal responses to independently read texts, supported by evidence

Use information literacy skills to form developed conclusion(s)

Produce a selection of crafted and controlled writing

Analyse significant aspects of unfamiliar written text(s) through close reading, supported by evidence

 

This will be listed under 11th grade english, even though my ds did them in 9th and 10th grade.  So I was going to put in my transcript under 9th grade that he did 11th grade assessments to show that he was working at a rigorous level.  There is also a LOT of stuff we do for English that is not a part of Te Kura, so I was going to build a course in my course transcripts that included both the homeschooling literature and composition that we do and these formal exams and assessments.  Is that ok?

 

 

Edited March 4, 2017 by lewelma

[lewelma]

If a student attend a a public school or DEs here, I would only incorporate the courses as exactly on those transcripts and indicate they are on a separate transcript. You absolutely cannot rename or re-credit accredited transcripts and they HAVE to be sent. (They can revoke everything if anything is excluded.)

 

I think you are thinking about online tutors or courses that are simply used as supplemental teaching. Those are not official courses or required transcripts.

 

See above with how it will look on the transcript.  My ds will have 30 or more individual assessment units listed by topic.  He will 'only' have one 'course endorsement' for Chemistry, because nothing else will be done in a calendar year.  His transcript will look like:

 

At the top:

National Certificate of Educational Achievement endorsed with Excellence

 

Course endorsements:

Chemistry endorsed with Excellence (the only one he got done in a school year because of the midyear start)

 

Assessments:

 

English level 2

Form developed personal responses to independently read texts, supported by evidence (4 credits Excellence)

Use information literacy skills to form developed conclusion(s)  (4 credits Excellence)

Produce a selection of crafted and controlled writing (6 credits Excellence)

Analyse significant aspects of unfamiliar written text(s) through close reading, supported by evidence (3 credits Excellence)

 

Music level 2

xxxx (in the same style as above.) I've indicated how many assessments he has in each with the new lines

xxxx (each assessment counts for somewhere between 3 and 8 credits, and a class is somewhere between 14 and 20 credits)

 

English level 3

xxxx

xxxx

xxxx

xxxx

 

Physics level 3

xxxx

xxxx

xxxx

xxxx

xxxx

xxxx

 

Maths level 3

xxxx

xxxx

 

Chemistry level 3

xxxx

xxxx

xxxx

xxxx

xxxx

xxxx

 

Music level 3

xxxx

xxxx

 

Biology level 3

xxxx

xxxx

xxxx

xxxx

Edited March 4, 2017 by lewelma

[regentrude]

Re correspondence school:

I would put the courses on the hs transcript - just like I put college courses. I find it useful to have one transcript that has a summary of the entire highschool education at one glance. Make a note explaining that these are through the correspondence school. Explain in the profile how the correspondence school transcript is structured.

[lewelma]

If a student attend a a public school or DEs here, I would only incorporate the courses as exactly on those transcripts and indicate they are on a separate transcript. You absolutely cannot rename or re-credit accredited transcripts and they HAVE to be sent. (They can revoke everything if anything is excluded.)

 

I think you are thinking about online tutors or courses that are simply used as supplemental teaching. Those are not official courses or required transcripts.

 

In NZ your highschool diploma is based on the number of  credits you gain at a 12th grade level (so second high level course in a subject).  Each assessment is worth a certain number of credits depending on how many hours are expected to complete it . Each credit is about 10 hours.  So 4 credit assessment is about 40 hours of work.  You need to have 60 credits at the 12 grade level, with 3 courses of at least 14 credits.  A full course is typically considered 18 credits.  

 

From Te Kura ds will have these credits by the end

Music level 2: 10 (2 assessments)

English level 2: 14 (3 assessments)

 

Calculus level 3: 14 (he did this only because they would not let him into university with his AoPS courses)

English level 3: 18

Chemistry level 3: 24

Physics level 3: 24

Biology level 3: 14  (he is required to study the level 2 material first, but does not have to do the assessments)

Music level 3: 10 (these were only exams, there was not help *at all*)

 

He skipped the rest of the 11th grade work and just started doing exams at the 12th grade level in 10th grade.  Any NZ students from a standard highschool will have a full listing of 25 assessments for 10th 11th and 12th grade.  My ds will have 0 from 10th grade and 5 from 11th grade 

 

DS has decided to use Te Kura for basically science and English.

 

He has too many credits for physics and chemistry to be courses

He has too few credits for calculus, and Biology to be considered courses, but for bio he has to self study level 2.

 

There is NO grade inflation here.  only 10-15% of kids get excellences, and 20% fail any one assessment. The fact that he has pulled off 60 credits of excellences 2 years early is basically unheard of.  Te kura has never seen it. He will have a national class rank of 1% (the highest they can go)

 

BUT his transcript will not look like other NZ school kids, because these courses only represent 1/3 of the material he is studying.  The rest is through other providers or done at home.

 

How am I supposed to represent this?  

[lewelma]

Re correspondence school:

I would put the courses on the hs transcript - just like I put college courses. I find it useful to have one transcript that has a summary of the entire highschool education at one glance. Make a note explaining that these are through the correspondence school. Explain in the profile how the correspondence school transcript is structured.

 

How do I handle courses where he did half of the work through the correspondence school and half at home?  For example, Calculus:

 

He took the assessments only because he had to have some formal math credits to take a university class.  He did not even take the integration assessment, just differentiation, complex numbers, and linear algebra so he would have the credits.  He actually self studied Calculus with AoPS AND redid all the material with the more applied Anton. This material is at a way higher level than the Te Kura material.  How do I put this on the transcript?

 

I was thinking about:

Honors Calculus  A  (course description talking about studying using both AoPS and Anton, and taking a few formal NZ exams)

 

I have a similar question for English, but let me get this first one right.

[lewelma]

If a student attend a a public school or DEs here, I would only incorporate the courses as exactly on those transcripts and indicate they are on a separate transcript. You absolutely cannot rename or re-credit accredited transcripts and they HAVE to be sent. (They can revoke everything if anything is excluded.)

 

I think you are thinking about online tutors or courses that are simply used as supplemental teaching. Those are not official courses or required transcripts.

 

So AoPS was an online tutor until it was accredited?  

 

What does 're-credit accredited transcripts' mean?

[regentrude]

How do I handle courses where he did half of the work through the correspondence school and half at home?  For example, Calculus:

 

He took the assessments only because he had to have some formal math credits to take a university class.  He did not even take the integration assessment, just differentiation, complex numbers, and linear algebra so he would have the credits.  He actually self studied Calculus with AoPS AND redid all the material with the more applied Anton. This material is at a way higher level than the Te Kura material.  How do I put this on the transcript?

 

I was thinking about:

Honors Calculus  A  (course description talking about studying using both AoPS and Anton, and taking a few formal NZ exams)

 

The bolded, precisely.

The college cares that he had calculus. I can't imagine they give a hoot whether he learned that from a book or a correspondence school or mom reciting. 

ETA: I would focus on the topics covered in the course and keep the explanation about the sources brief.

Edited March 4, 2017 by regentrude

[lewelma]

Got it. 

 

So English.  The work he does at Te Kura is about composition.  He has a *very* good teacher who is really helping him get better with some seriously great feedback.  We plan to ask her for the humanities recommendation that MIT requires.

 

Te Kura does not focus on Literature, basically at all.  All of the deep reading and discussion that we do with things like War and Peace are not for English at Te Kura.  I was going to bring the composition and literature into 1 unit called English11, and write in the description that ds did the composition piece through Te Kura with the resulting assessment grades and then did the literature piece at home with me.  Is this right?  Or do I need to separate them out on my transcript?  

 

 

[lewelma]

 

ETA: I would focus on the topics covered in the course and keep the explanation about the sources brief.

 

Interesting.  I was kind of thinking the opposite.  Calculus has standard content, so everyone does the same stuff.  Wouldn't the text book dictate the level at which you learned it. By doing both books, do did it theoretically and in an applied fashion.

 

We are also thinking he will not take Multivariate calc at the university next term because they will use Anton, and ds would like to study it with a more theoretical book like Spivak. (Plus the course last year was a joke for ds unfortunately)

[regentrude]

Interesting.  I was kind of thinking the opposite.  Calculus has standard content, so everyone does the same stuff.  Wouldn't the text book dictate the level at which you learned it. By doing both books, do did it theoretically and in an applied fashion.

 

We are also thinking he will not take Multivariate calc at the university next term because they will use Anton, and ds would like to study it with a more theoretical book like Spivak. (Plus the course last year was a joke for ds unfortunately)

 

By keeping sources brief sources I meant not explaining in too much detail how the AoPS -textbook-correspondence scheme exactly worked.

I would certainly list the textbook.

Edited March 4, 2017 by regentrude

[regentrude]

So English.  The work he does at Te Kura is about composition.  He has a *very* good teacher who is really helping him get better with some seriously great feedback.  We plan to ask her for the humanities recommendation that MIT requires.

 

Te Kura does not focus on Literature, basically at all.  All of the deep reading and discussion that we do with things like War and Peace are not for English at Te Kura.  I was going to bring the composition and literature into 1 unit called English11, and write in the description that ds did the composition piece through Te Kura with the resulting assessment grades and then did the literature piece at home with me.  Is this right?  Or do I need to separate them out on my transcript?  

 

That is exactly what I would do. I would give one hs credit for the combined course, and explain in the course description that the composition instruction was through Te Kura, that lit was done at home, plus give a list of major works studied.

[EKS]

Wait. What?  I have no idea what you are talking about.  What is the difference between an outside class and a accreditation?  And how does this affect my transcript?

 

 

An outside class just means one that is not taught by the parent (or self taught by the student).  They might be from an accredited provider (such as a college or b&m high school or correspondence school) or they might not be (such as a Derek Owens class, AoPS before it was accredited, or, in our case, my son's viola teacher).  For the classes taken with accredited providers, I noted where the class was taken on my transcript.  For outside but unaccredited classes, I just put the provider's name in my course descriptions. 

[lewelma]

That is exactly what I would do. I would give one hs credit for the combined course, and explain in the course description that the composition instruction was through Te Kura, that lit was done at home, plus give a list of major works studied.

 

Well, I'm glad it makes sense to you and me :001_smile: ,  but some posters up thread were saying that I can't change or adapt courses done through an accredited vendor.  Doesn't this go against that?

[lewelma]

An outside class just means one that is not taught by the parent (or self taught by the student).  They might be from an accredited provider (such as a college or b&m high school or correspondence school) or they might not be (such as a Derek Owens class, AoPS before it was accredited, or, in our case, my son's viola teacher).  For the classes taken with accredited providers, I noted where the class was taken on my transcript.  For outside but unaccredited classes, I just put the provider's name in my course descriptions. 

 

That makes sense.  But what about the classes I listed in posts 11, 14 and 17 that Regentrude and I were thinking about giving one credit, when half was through the correspondence school and half done at home?

Edited March 4, 2017 by lewelma

[regentrude]

Well, I'm glad it makes sense to you and me :001_smile: ,  but some posters up thread were saying that I can't change or adapt courses done through an accredited vendor.  Doesn't this go against that?

 

If I understand you correctly, your correspondence school does not provide traditional "courses" and  course titles, just these credit modules with assessments.

In order to make it understandable to a US university, I would fold these into the course taught at home, give the course my own title, and explain in the homeschool profile and the course description that a component of the course was provided by the correspondence school, and that the full credit comes from this component plus additional instruction from other sources.

 

I see it as a different situation than if the correspondence school did in fact provide a complete course with its own course title. In that case I agree with other posters that the title should be the same on your transcript as on the provider's transcript - but if I understand you correctly, that is not the case here.

[lewelma]

So is ABRSM accredited?  So do they send a transcript? This is from Wikipedia and it does use the word accredited, but does it mean the same thing in america?

 

The Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music (ABRSM) is an examinations board and registered charity^[2] based in London, UK, which provides examinations in music at centres around the world. ABRSM is one of four examination boards accredited by Ofqual to award graded exams and diploma qualifications in music within the UK's National Qualifications Framework (along with the London College of Music, Rockschool Ltd and Trinity College London). 

[regentrude]

That makes sense.  But what about the classes I listed in posts 11, 14 and 17 that Regentrude and I were thinking about giving one credit, when half was through the correspondence school and half done at home?

 

You could use a symbol or font on the transcript and explain "Symbol*: Portion of the course was provided by xyz correspondence school" or something along those lines.

[regentrude]

So is ABRSM accredited?  So do they send a transcript? 

 

This is something you need to ask them.

[EKS]

That makes sense.  But what about the classes I listed in posts 11, 14 and 17 that Regentrude and I were thinking about giving one credit, when half was through the correspondence school and half done at home?

 

That's what I would do too, now that I have a better understanding of how it worked.   Just make it clear on the transcript and in the course descriptions who did what.

[lewelma]

If I understand you correctly, your correspondence school does not provide traditional "courses" and  course titles, just these credit modules with assessments.

In order to make it understandable to a US university, I would fold these into the course taught at home, give the course my own title, and explain in the homeschool profile and the course description that a component of the course was provided by the correspondence school, and that the full credit comes from this component plus additional instruction from other sources.

 

I see it as a different situation than if the correspondence school did in fact provide a complete course with its own course title. In that case I agree with other posters that the title should be the same on your transcript as on the provider's transcript - but if I understand you correctly, that is not the case here.

 

 

Jeese, I don't know. What actually happened was that ds had to take 11th grade official english assessments in 9th and 10th grade to be able to take his University course mid way through 10th grade.  DS did not want to get low grades, so since only 10-15% of 11th graders get Excellences on any assessment and ds was 2 years young, he had to work really hard and this took him longer than normal.  While working on this high level work with the teacher at the correspondence school, he and I also did more typical 9th grade English material and also read and discussed lots and lots of literature.  So remembering that a full class is 14-20 credits, this is what actually happened:

 

9th grade: 6 11th grade English composition credits + easier writing at home + literature at home

 

10th grade: 8 11th grade English composition credits + literature at home

 

11th grade: 14 12th grade English composition credits + studying without exam 4 11th grade credits (need to do this to be able to do the 12th grade related exam) + literature at home

 

12th grade: 4 12th grade English composition credits + 8 12th grade composition credits through Chemistry and Biology + literature at home.

 

I don't think they would want to see that!! But that is how the dates line up (unless I shift to a northern hemisphere calendar to give him  4 full years on his transcript, which is a different question!)

Edited March 4, 2017 by lewelma

[lewelma]

This is something you need to ask them.

 

So see post 22.  They are definitely accredited in the UK.  But how do USA universities view accredited?  Is it the same thing?  I don't actually know what accredited means. 

[regentrude]

So see post 22.  They are definitely accredited in the UK.  But how do USA universities view accredited?  Is it the same thing?  I don't actually know what accredited means. 

 

I meant you need to ask them whether they are providing transcripts to US colleges.

[regentrude]

Jeese, I don't know. What actually happened was that ds had to take 11th grade official english assessments in 9th and 10th grade to be able to take his University course mid way through 10th grade.  DS did not want to get low grades, so since only 10-15% of 11th graders get Excellences on any assessment and ds was 2 years young, he had to work really hard and this took him longer than normal.  While working on this high level work with the teacher at the correspondence school, he and I also did more typical 9th grade English material and also read and discussed lots and lots of literature.  So remembering that a full class is 14-20 credits, this is what actually happened:

 

9th grade: 6 11th grade English composition credits + easier writing at home + literature at home

 

10th grade: 8 11th grade English composition credits + literature at home

 

11th grade: 14 12th grade English composition credits + studying without exam 4 11th grade credits (need to do this to be able to do the 12th grade related exam) + literature at home

 

12th grade: 4 12th grade English composition credits + 8 12th grade composition credits through Chemistry and Biology + literature at home.

 

I don't think they would want to see that!! But that is how the dates line up (unless I shift to a northern hemisphere calendar to give him  4 full years on his transcript, which is a different question!)

 

English 9. English 10. English 11. English 12.

 

Course description:

English 9

This course combines literature with a strong composition component. Literature studies centered on the period.../Major works of literature studied:... list books. 

The composition instruction was provided through xyz correspondence school and satisified a portion of the NZ 11th grade composition requirement."

 

'nuff said. But it explains what they will see on the correspondence school transcript.

You are probably overthinking this.

Edited March 4, 2017 by regentrude

[lewelma]

 

You are probably overthinking this.

 

 No, you are actually just really good at this!!  Thanks! :001_smile:

[Julie of KY]

English 9. English 10. English 11. English 12.

 

Course description:

English 9

This course combines literature with a strong composition component. Literature studies centered on the period.../Major works of literature studied:... list books. 

The composition instruction was provided through xyz correspondence school and satisified a portion of the NZ 11th grade composition requirement."

 

'nuff said. But it explains what they will see on the correspondence school transcript.

You are probably overthinking this.

 

I agree with this for English - keep the course title simple and then explain further in your course descriptions.

 

For AoPS, I simply listed AoPS course title on my transcript with my own grade. I've never asked for nor received a grade from AoPS. If you do have a grade from AoPS, then certainly list it.

 

I'd probably list WOOT as a course rather than extracurricular, but I suppose it can be either.

 

For any outside providers that I used that gave grades (like Brave Writer), I described it in my course description and said part of my course included x,y,z course with grade x from such and such provider. I then lumped it together with whatever else I deemed as my English credit and gave it one total grade for that year English.

 

For any course that you do in 7th/8th grade, I'd be sure to make it clear that it was before high school.

 

For courses by outside providers, I'd probably list Course name (provider). If it's clear what the  grade was, simply list it. If it's more complicated, you might asterisk it and then provide a better description of the assessment in your course description.

 

I would use your transcript to list everything and mark clearly which ones are included on an outside transcript. This would be similar to anyone that lists a dual enrollment class on the transcript and also provides a transcript from the university.

[lewelma]

So are the honor's designations in my first post ok?  Do I put honors before all the AoPS classes that he took in middle school?

 

So lets talk about the EC situation because more than one person has suggested moving Music and WOOT to ECs, others say keep them as school work.  What are the advantages or disadvantages of each?

 

His current ECs are 

Badminton Rep squad (like Varsity, so he made the higher level team and will compete) - 4.5 hours per week

Martial Arts 3.5 hours per week (this is an adult class with a very traditional teacher for Win Tsun, ds is the *only* child ever taken on. He started at 9)

String Group and Trio - 4 hours per week sponsored by the local university and taught by NZSO and NZSQ members which are the national bodies.  Audition entrance

 

DS has enough hours to count his weekly violin lessons as a full class, and I could leave the string group and trio in the ECs

He will have taken WOOT for 3 years. It takes him about 10 hours per week when combined with his other IMO prep work

 

Community Service: he is tutoring 3 kids currently (2 for AoPS, one to get into the NZ math camp)

 

So given this, where does WOOT and Music/String Group/Trio go?

Edited March 5, 2017 by lewelma

[Julie of KY]

Well as far as the music, if he's taking university courses and working toward a post-secondary diploma then I'd count that as coursework for sure. I don't see how you don't count it as coursework. Here in the USA, many students take music in school as an elective. Private lessons wouldn't count as they are not doing it through the school. I know many homeschoolers who do count the private lessons as courses.

 

There are definitely schools here that you can take competition math as an elective so WOOT could be a course. On the other hand, I think most of the students in WOOT are in more traditional schools and might count it as an elective. I'm not sure. My son talked about doing WOOT and I would have listed it on his transcript if he did, but we went in a different direction. 

 

I don't think there is a clear answer to your question as different people would clearly do it differentlly. :)

 

If you are going to label anything as honors, then I'd go ahead and label middle school classes that way so be consistent - it certainly won't hurt.

[8filltheheart]

If I understand you correctly, your correspondence school does not provide traditional "courses" and course titles, just these credit modules with assessments.

In order to make it understandable to a US university, I would fold these into the course taught at home, give the course my own title, and explain in the homeschool profile and the course description that a component of the course was provided by the correspondence school, and that the full credit comes from this component plus additional instruction from other sources.

 

I see it as a different situation than if the correspondence school did in fact provide a complete course with its own course title. In that case I agree with other posters that the title should be the same on your transcript as on the provider's transcript - but if I understand you correctly, that is not the case here.

I personally would not take this approach unless I completely misunderstand what Te Kura is. Is it a gov't education institution that provides what is needed for admission to NZ universities? If it is a gov't type school/ institution which is certifying educational achievements, regardless of how they label them, no, I would not wrap credits together.

 

From my reading of what you describe, it is nothing like self-studying for the AP and taking the exam. There is zero school or govt educational institution involvement. There is no sending of coursework. APs don't do anything at all except tell universities that the student passed an exam. They don't tell what was used or studied to prepare for the exam.

 

I personally think your description is making it more complicated than it needs to be and I would simplify it even more. I would separate what he did at home from what he provided for them and I would not provide ANY course descriptions for what TeKura assessed. Schools do not provide course descriptions. That is a homeschool thing. So I would simply create course descriptions that you did at home that didn't get done through correspondence school.

 

I would leave the comments about his incredibly unusual achievements and his unheard of level of excellence at such a young age to whoever at Te Kura would be willing to write his counselor letter or assessment. It is going to mean a lot more coming from them than from you.

 

But that is just my opinion. I may completely misunderstand Te Kura.

Edited March 5, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[Julie of KY]

 

I personally think your description is making it more complicated than it needs to be and I would simplify it even more. I would separate what he did at home from what he provided for them and I would not provide ANY course descriptions for what TeKura assessed. Schools do not provide course descriptions. That is a homeschool thing. So I would simply create course descriptions that you did at home that didn't get done through correspondence school.

 

I would leave the comments about his incredibly unusual achievements and his unheard of level of excellence at such a young age to whoever at Te Kura would be willing to write his counselor letter or assessment. It is going to mean a lot more coming from them than from you.

 

 

 

You could separate these. I would at least give an overview of Te Kura and how it fit into your son's education in a school profile or counselor letter. 

 

I'd still simply list it on my transcript as Te Kura Math 101, just as I"d list a dual enrollment class here. You can leave off any grade or assessment and you could mix these classes with your own or list them in a separate section. Just make sure to also provide the Te Kura transcript either way.

[regentrude]

I personally would not take this approach unless I completely misunderstand what Te Kura is. Is it a gov't education institution that provides what is needed for admission to NZ universities? If it is a gov't type school/ institution which is certifying educational achievements, regardless of how they label them, no, I would not wrap credits together.

 

Trying to understand your approach, 8FillTheHeart:

So do you also leave DE classes off the transcript, since the college is sending its own transcript anyway?

Do you make a difference whether the institution is a state school (since you emphasize "government" or private? 

Would you include a course taken through something like PA Homeschoolers, which also send their own transcript?

[regentrude]

So given this, where does WOOT and Music/String Group/Trio go?

 

I would use it as extracurriculars. 

[Storygirl]

I have not created a transcript as of this point, but perhaps my thought might be helpful.

 

For English, instead of saying English 9 and folding both lit and composition into one class (which I think is a valid option to consider), perhaps separate out the composition classes and literature classes.

English 9 Composition -- indicate that it was taught by Te Kura with whatever symbol you use for them, .5 credit

English 9 Literature -- (specify what type of literature was the focus for each year, if applicable; for example, call the class Russian literature)  .5 credit

 

And do the same for the other years.

 

My high school definitely had some half credit classes for English. It's not unusual.

[8filltheheart]

Trying to understand your approach, 8FillTheHeart:

So do you also leave DE classes off the transcript, since the college is sending its own transcript anyway?

Do you make a difference whether the institution is a state school (since you emphasize "government" or private? 

Would you include a course taken through something like PA Homeschoolers, which also send their own transcript?

 

There are 2 different issues as I see it (if I am understanding things at all correctly): courses that are being evaluated by the gov't by passing their tests to certain levels of achievement and courses completed at home.  No, if the former is correct, I wouldn't incorporate the 2 into a single course.  I don't see this as comparing whether or not DE credits are put on the transcript.  I see it as taking course through an accredited provider providing an accredited transcript, merging that with what I do at home, and then labeling the course into a single course under my course title.  No, that I would not do.  Is PAH a state accredited school that legally provides transcripts for all of its students?  (I have no idea.  I didnt think they were.  I didn't request them send transcripts for my ds.  If they are, then I was absolutely incorrect in not having them send one.  We are legally obligated to submit transcripts from all schools attended and that would mean that PAH was a school attended.) 

 

If I am reading what she is saying correctly, Te Kura is basically a public correspondence school provider (I don't know what it would be called in NZ which is why I referred to it as a gov't school. Public schools here are gov't schools.) The difference is that it sounds like they provide evaluations of accomplishment for subjects vs.  course titles and grades on their transcripts.  I am assuming that is the same way they would be reported to NZ universities.  That is why I asked if what they provide is what would lead to admissions to a NZ university.  If what they are providing is acceptable for NZ college admissions, I would assume it has some sort of legal type representation behind it like a ps transcript.  If it doesn't lead to NZ university admissions and they are just non-govt endorsed tests like APs, then I would take the approach of merging them together b/c I would see that more like taking Coursera or opencourseware courses, adding what I want to them, and then taking the AP the end.

 

I am trying to understand the distinction of what Te Kura actually is legally.  If the former is correct, I think that explaining that system and then clarifying that it only represents 1/3 of his education in order to comply with NZ laws and then writing distinct course descriptions of what was done at home is actually easier and a more accurate descriptor.  If the latter is correct, then incorporating them is probably simpler and appropriate.

[EKS]

I personally would not take this approach unless I completely misunderstand what Te Kura is. Is it a gov't education institution that provides what is needed for admission to NZ universities? If it is a gov't type school/ institution which is certifying educational achievements, regardless of how they label them, no, I would not wrap credits together.

 

 

How about having the Te Kura piece separated out on the transcript but together in the course descriptions.  So, something like (and I'm making up course names):

 

Transcript

 

Venusian Literature 0.5 cr

    Te Kura Composition 1 (or whatever the exact name is on Te Kura's documentation) 0.5 cr

Martian Literature 0.5 cr

     T Kura Composition 2 0.5 cr   etc.

 

Course Description

 

Venusian Literature with Te Kura Composition (or whatever the exact name is):  This course combined the study of Venusian literature with a composition course (or whatever the correct term is) completed through the Te Kura correspondence school.  Works studied included...  The composition element included (and pull this from Te Kura's documentation, if possible).  

[lewelma]

Thanks guys for hashing this out.  I'll give it some thought and get back later today. I've got to go actually educate my children now.... :001_smile:

[lewelma]

Well, I called Te Kura and they passed me to the NZ Qualifications Authority.  I gave the guy at NZQA some examples, and asked him what to do.  He sees the assessments offered as modules that can be built like bricks into classes (which is how I have always seen them).  So when I suggested that I use the Biology, Chemistry, and Physics writing assessments to build an "English 12" class, he thought that was fine, and even suggested that I bring up that these assessments qualify for literacy credits under the NZQA framework.  When I suggested Regentrude's description for what ds did in 9th and 10th grade for English (mixing formal assessments for 11th grade with nonassessed informal material for 9th grade), he thought that was fine.  In 9th and 10th grade you don't take formal assessments here; basically those years don't count for anything as they don't lead to a recognized qualification, so to describe in a course description that we did some informal stuff some formal assessments is fine.  I reiterated a bunch of times that I did not want to create a summary sheet that would not line up with the official Te Kura transcript and get me in trouble, and he just did not seem worried.  He said best to explain what ds has *actually* done and in what year as it was so unusual.  So.... I don't have anything in writing, but that was at least what one guy said who was the school adviser at NZQA.

 

 

 

I would leave the comments about his incredibly unusual achievements and his unheard of level of excellence at such a young age to whoever at Te Kura would be willing to write his counselor letter or assessment.

This made me smile.  In NZ you are not allow to accelerate.  *Maybe* one year, but that is it.  I mean NOT ALLOWED.  In order to get DS the ability to take classes at a higher level, I worked my way up over the period of 3 months to the top of the Ministry of Education, at which point I very unexpectedly found the old principal I worked under 20 years ago, and since we had worked together he trusted me.  Who you know is everything in a small country like NZ.  This guy told me that he used to teach the Principal of our local school, and that the principal owed him a favor, so that if there was no other way, then this would be the path.  But in the end, this guy contacted the CEO of Te Kura (a school of 20K students) who was a friend of his and asked him to allow it, and the CEO told all the underlings at the school to make it happen.  The underlings then found basically the one student adviser willing to advocate for ds, and she has bent over backwards to fight to get him permission from *each* teacher to take the classes he wanted to take.  So when I say that they have never seen it before, I'm seriously not kidding. It's not because of ds, but rather the rigidity of the system.

Edited March 6, 2017 by lewelma

[8filltheheart]

Well, I called Te Kura and they passed me to the NZ Qualifications Authority.  I gave the guy at NZQA some examples, and asked him what to do.  He sees the assessments offered as modules that can be built like bricks into classes (which is how I have always seen them).  So when I suggested that I use the Biology, Chemistry, and Physics writing assessments to build an "English 12" class, he thought that was fine, and even suggested that I bring up that these assessments qualify for literacy credits under the NZQA framework.  When I suggested Regentrude's description for what ds did in 9th and 10th grade for English (mixing formal assessments for 11th grade with nonassessed informal material for 9th grade), he thought that was fine.  In 9th and 10th grade you don't take formal assessments here; basically those years don't count for anything as they don't lead to a recognized qualification, so to describe in a course description that we did some informal stuff some formal assessments is fine.  I reiterated a bunch of times that I did not want to create a summary sheet that would not line up with the official Te Kura transcript and get me in trouble, and he just did not seem worried.  He said best to explain what ds has *actually* done and in what year as it was so unusual.  So.... I don't have anything in writing, but that was at least what one guy said who was the school adviser at NZQA.

 

This made me smile.  In NZ you are not allow to accelerate.  *Maybe* one year, but that is it.  I mean NOT ALLOWED.  In order to get DS the ability to take classes at a higher level, I worked my way up over the period of 3 months to the top of the Ministry of Education, at which point I very unexpectedly found the old principal I worked under 20 years ago, and since we had worked together he trusted me.  Who you know is everything in a small country like NZ.  This guy told me that he used to teach the Principal of our local school, and that the principal owed him a favor, so that if there was no other way, then this would be the path.  But in the end, this guy contacted the CEO of Te Kura (a school of 20K students) who was a friend of his and asked him to allow it, and the CEO told all the underlings at the school to make it happen.  The underlings then found basically the one student adviser willing to advocate for ds, and she has bent over backwards to fight to get him permission from *each* teacher to take the classes he wanted to take.  So when I say that they have never seen it before, I'm seriously not kidding. It's not because of ds, but rather the rigidity of the system.

 

I am glad you called and got answers.  It sounds like you know how to proceed and can do so with confidence!  Sounds like original plan will work well, then.

 

In terms of the bolded, then that is who I would ask to write the letter explaining exactly how unusual his achievements are.   :)

Edited March 6, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[lewelma]

I am glad you called and got answers.  It sounds like you know how to proceed and can do so with confidence!  Sounds like original plan will work well, then.

 

In terms of the bolded, then that is who I would ask to write the letter explaining exactly how unusual his achievements are.   :)

 

I'm glad I called too.  I did not even know until this thread that there were questions! :001_smile: Thanks so much for your time and thoughtful analysis.

 

 

In terms of the bolded, then that is who I would ask to write the letter explaining exactly how unusual his achievements are.    :)

 

You and I think alike. We've already asked her.  :)  I was at first worried that with NZ's understated approach that anything she would write would sound like damnation through faint praise. But then she wrote up ds's little blurb for the award's ceremony in December, and as it was read out loud, ds and I turned to each other with big eyes, and I whispered  "I guess we were wrong."  

 

Edited March 6, 2017 by lewelma

[Connections]

Is PAH a state accredited school that legally provides transcripts for all of its students?  (I have no idea.  I didnt think they were.  I didn't request them send transcripts for my ds.  If they are, then I was absolutely incorrect in not having them send one.  We are legally obligated to submit transcripts from all schools attended and that would mean that PAH was a school attended.) 

 

 

 

 I do not want to hijack but I would very much like to see this pursued and answered. 

 

I am going to cut and past and open a new post. I hope that's the right way to do this!

Edited March 6, 2017 by Connections