What DE (or other) Programming courses after AP Comp Sci ?

[mirabillis]

Any ideas on some good post AP Comp Sci classes? I'm thinking DE but if you have other online options, that's fine too.

 

Thanks!

[Mike in SA]

Depends on local unis. What do you have in your area?

 

If you are looking for an online option, there is a bunch of stuff on coursera, edx, and ocw. The typical next step is data structures.

[Joules]

Most universities have a two course Intro to Programming sequence.  AP CS A usually only gives credit for the first one, so the second is a natural choice if you are doing DE.  

[mirabillis]

This is what our local community college offers:

 

CSIS I COMPUTER INFORMATION SYSTEMS (3 units)

CSIS 9 PROGRAMMING FUNDAMENTALS: PYTHON (3 units)

CSIS 10A PROGRAMMING METHODS 1: JAVA (4 units)

CSIS 10B PROGRAMMING METHODS 11: JAVA (4 units)

CSIS 10C BRIDGE TO C AND C++ PROGRAMMING (2 units)

CSIS 11 COMPUTER ARCHITECTURE AND ORGANIZATION (3 units)

CSIS 12 DISCRETE STRUCTURES  (3 units)

CSIS 45 INTRODUCTION TO UNDERWATER ROBOTICS (4 units)

CSIS 55 INTRODUCTION TO PROGRAMMING – VISUAL BASIC (3 units)

CSIS 56 JAVA PROGRAMMING (3 units)

CSIS 62 WEB ANIMATION AND PROGRAMMING (4 units)

CSIS 77 WEB DESIGN AND PUBLISHING (3 units)

CSIS 78 ADVANCED WEB DESIGN AND PUBLISHING (3 units)

CSIS 80 INTRODUCTION TO UNIX AND LINUX (3 units)

CSIS 190 COMPUTER FORENSICS (3 units)

CSIS 198 NETWORK SECURITY FUNDAMENTALS/SECURITY+ PREP (4 units)

 

*eta with credit units

 

Edited December 31, 2016 by mirabillis

[daijobu]

I don't see it on your list, but I would recommend an algorithms course.  My dd just began the class at OCW MIT.

 

ETA:  She's primarily signed up to improve her standing in the USACO.  

Edited December 31, 2016 by daijobu

[Mike in SA]

Algorithms would be great, but they need solid discrete math and data structures.

 

Looking at your list, 10B seems the natural next step. You can check with the department to be sure.

[mirabillis]

And then after 10B - any thoughts what would be the next couple?

 

Thanks!

[dereksurfs]

We will most likely take these as first:

 

CSIS 1 Computer Information Systems (3)

CSIS 9 Programming Fundamentals: Python (3)

CSIS 10A Programming Methods I: Java (4)

CSIS 10B Programming Methods II: Java (4)

CSIS 51C Database Processing (3)

 

Then if time permits and there is interest:

CSIS 80 Introduction to UNIX and Linux (3)

CSIS 12 Discrete Structures (4)

CSIS 192 Virtualization and Cloud Computing Concepts (3)

CSIS 76A Networking Fundamentals (4)

 

Even if he's taken AP CS, there is nothing wrong with taking CSIS 10A at the college level. It may include additional elements covered from another perspective than the high school course.

[Joules]

Quiet morning, so I thought I'd share my thoughts on the classes.  After 10B, so much depends on what the student is interested in.  If it is still completely open, one thing I like is to check ratemyprofessor.com .  Look for comments like "makes the subject fascinating" or "I never thought I'd like X until I took Dr. B's class"  A good prof can make all the difference.  

 

This is just one person's opinion, but looking at the short course descriptions and my knowledge of similar classes, my thoughts on each class are embedded below:

 

This is what our local community college offers:

 

CSIS I COMPUTER INFORMATION SYSTEMS (3 units)

probably too simple for someone in AP CS

CSIS 9 PROGRAMMING FUNDAMENTALS: PYTHON (3 units)

Python is useful to know.  Many, many people learn it on their own without a class.  That would depend on a student's motivation and if one wants credit for learning.

CSIS 10A PROGRAMMING METHODS 1: JAVA (4 units)

This would be a repeat of AP CS A.  I would only recommend if the student feels insecure in their knowledge after the AP class.

CSIS 10B PROGRAMMING METHODS 11: JAVA (4 units)

**I would recommend this second to AP to cement Java and build on the AP class.

CSIS 10C BRIDGE TO C AND C++ PROGRAMMING (2 units)

This is designed as a third class so would be a good next choice.  C and C++ are more specific to STEM and not general purpose languages like Java or Python.  Useful for CS majors and often in science or mathematics.

CSIS 11 COMPUTER ARCHITECTURE AND ORGANIZATION (3 units)

This is a more fundamental under-the-hood class (think engine maintenance vs. driving class).  Unless you are a CS major or particularly interested, not as common a class.

CSIS 12 DISCRETE STRUCTURES  (3 units)

More of a math class, needs a good grasp of pre-calc.  Mathies will love it :-) Others not so much.  I would recommend for potential CS or Math majors

CSIS 45 INTRODUCTION TO UNDERWATER ROBOTICS (4 units)

Just looks like fun!  It's more hands on, so better for a student who loves tinkering than one who prefers sitting at a computer fiddling with a virtual world.

CSIS 55 INTRODUCTION TO PROGRAMMING – VISUAL BASIC (3 units)

VB is a business language for business applications.  It's easy to pick up and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone until they knew they had a need or application (spoken as someone who used to teach VB.)

CSIS 56 JAVA PROGRAMMING (3 units)

This would be a repetition of the early series 10A and 10B.  It's for someone who learned another language first and understands programming but needs to learn Java now.

CSIS 62 WEB ANIMATION AND PROGRAMMING (4 units)

CSIS 77 WEB DESIGN AND PUBLISHING (3 units)

CSIS 78 ADVANCED WEB DESIGN AND PUBLISHING (3 units)

These will be interesting and enjoyable for anyone looking to do web work.

CSIS 80 INTRODUCTION TO UNIX AND LINUX (3 units)

Excellent choice for CS major or anyone working with large computer systems like STEM majors.  Unix is a must-know.

CSIS 190 COMPUTER FORENSICS (3 units)

CSIS 198 NETWORK SECURITY FUNDAMENTALS/SECURITY+ PREP (4 units)

These would be interesting, but check the pre-reqs.

 

 

 

 

[Mike in SA]

Quiet morning, so I thought I'd share my thoughts on the classes.  After 10B, so much depends on what the student is interested in.  If it is still completely open, one thing I like is to check ratemyprofessor.com .  Look for comments like "makes the subject fascinating" or "I never thought I'd like X until I took Dr. B's class"  A good prof can make all the difference.  

 

This is just one person's opinion, but looking at the short course descriptions and my knowledge of similar classes, my thoughts on each class are embedded below:

 

That was a great summary.  Pretty much spot-on, though C++ is poised for a resurgence in business applications, as well.  Newer databases such as HANA are designed for native C++ development for performance and functionality.  Likewise for discrete structures, as graph theory and statistics are key elements of modern analytics.

[mirabillis]

Thank you Joules for taking the time! I leave the programming to my ds - so your knowledge is imminently helpful.

 

I am looking for a post AP Calc math class DE for Sr. year - perhaps Discrete Structures or the like would be good? He is a mathy kid.

 

 

Dereksurfs - thought you'd weigh in. Happy to hear your thoughts, local as you are. ;-)

Edited January 1, 2017 by mirabillis

[Lilaclady]

 

 

I am looking for a post AP Calc math class DE for Sr. year - perhaps Discrete Structures or the like would be good? He is a mathy kid.

 

 

Dereksurfs - thought you'd weigh in. Happy to hear your thoughts, local as you are. ;-)

If he is going to take discrete structures in computing, it will be better if he does linear algebra or multivariable calculus for math

[quark]

A post AP Calc BC class would probably be Calc III (multivariable at my DS's CC).

A post AP Calc AB class might be Calc II and there might be some overlap in that class depending on prof and textbook.

ETA: watch closely for prerequisites...at DS's CC, I believe Calc III is a prereq for Linear Algebra. Some profs might allow challenging those prerequisites.

 

DS did not do AP CS but if he had, he would have skipped the 10A equivalent completely and gone to 10B. In fact, he did one CS programming class (C++) and his prof suggested to DS that for a another programming class, to skip the 10A equivalent anyway which indirectly told us that 10A was probably a lot of review/ basic stuff he could have learned quickly on the fly.

 

Good luck deciding on next steps!

Edited January 1, 2017 by quark

[Joules]

Thank you Joules for taking the time! I leave the programming to my ds - so your knowledge is imminently helpful.

 

I am looking for a post AP Calc math class DE for Sr. year - perhaps Discrete Structures or the like would be good? He is a mathy kid.

 

 

Dereksurfs - thought you'd weigh in. Happy to hear your thoughts, local as you are. ;-)

 

Linear Algebra would be the closest corresponding math class; if he needs actual math credits, it would be a good choice.  I'm not sure if he is DE full time, but he could take both Linear Algebra and Discrete Structures and they would complement each other.  If he has all of the "Math" credits that he needs, it would be good to take something like Discrete Structures to always have something mathy on the schedule.

 

But I usually recommend that if calculus may be in the future that all three semesters be taken pretty close together.  My general recommendation, but must be individually adjusted for how well the student tests in general:

3 or lower on AB test, take Calc I

4 or 5 on AB test, take Calc II

3 or lower on BC test, Calc I or Calc II depending on how confident he feels with the first part of the material (there is a subtest score for AB)

4 on BC test, consider taking Calc II again, but probably fine in Calc III unless at a competitive STEM university

5 on BC test, take Calc III

If he waits a year between Calc classes with no practice (like calc-based physics or the like), dropping back down might be a good idea.  

 

Statistics and Finite Mathematics are also good choices if he just can't get enough math!  I'm biased, but I think every student should have basic statistics in high school.

[Joules]

That was a great summary.  Pretty much spot-on, though C++ is poised for a resurgence in business applications, as well.  Newer databases such as HANA are designed for native C++ development for performance and functionality.  Likewise for discrete structures, as graph theory and statistics are key elements of modern analytics.

 

Oh definitely!  I think I may have misspoke.  When I mention CS majors I'm including those that work in business applications, not just those that work in STEM.  I included math and science specifically because in research you often need those more intensive languages even if you aren't a CS person.

 

My thought was: If you are a business major, it's helpful to know things like web development, VB, Java, Python and UNIX, but you are not likely to be doing programming to the C++ level.  If you want that level of programming work, you are likely majoring in CS.  Though times are a-changing: several business schools now have more math/CS based analytics degrees.  

[Arcadia]

Bumping the thread because I'm trying to figure out the same thing for both my kids. Have your son decide on which course he want?

 

ETA: watch closely for prerequisites...at DS's CC, I believe Calc III is a prereq for Linear Algebra. Some profs might allow challenging those prerequisites.

Calculus III is a prerequisite for the three closest community colleges to me. Older boy is more interested in LA than MVC currently. AP score reports by mail are only getting mailed out mid-August. We called CollegeBoard and asked since we received our kids June SAT score reports by mail already. Edited August 1, 2017 by Arcadia