So, what do you all think about all the voter fraud we're seeing BEFORE

[6packofun]

Please provide a link, particularly regarding "vote numerous times."

 

Most people are talking about registering to vote numerous times, not voting numerous times, BUT here in Ohio the last day to register was also a day on which people could VOTE in the election as well. I think that's the first time it's been done this way--so people were registering and voting at once.

 

I'm sure you've seen the story about the young man who registered 73 times, but here is the local video from one of our Cleveland stations: http://www.newsnet5.com/video/17704400/index.html (video takes a few seconds to load and there's a short commercial first) Again, I don't know that he also voted with these registrations and have no idea what one does with 72 false registrations if someone else does not attempt to use them to VOTE--why do this at all? It's bizarre to me. But also fraudulent.

[lovemyboys]

Large scale fraud would require many warm bodies as the only way to do same-day registration and voting is in person, and there is only one office per county in which to do this.]

 

except in Chicago in the Daley era :tongue_smilie:

 

Part of the issue seems to involve the new election centers which are different than your typical polling place that most of us are used to.

 

[

ACORN press release.

 

It's interesting to read this release, perhaps some of their spokespeople should read it, that's not what they've been saying in interviews. And it's not what their workers have been saying. But I see where you've shared some of this information previously.

 

I think we can all agree that this is an issue not to be taken lightly. Voting is a responsibility that is part of our freedom, it's a shame when it's treated irresponsibly as a joke, a bribe, or a tally on someone's daily sheet.

Edited October 15, 2008 by lovemyboys
obviously haven't figured out the double quote thing...the bold is my comment

[nmoira]

except in Chicago in the Daley era :tongue_smilie:

Fair enough. :D But the requirements for documentation are a bit more stringent than in those day. We also have the advantage of computerized registration to catch multiple single registrations, etc.

 

I think we can all agree that this is an issue not to be taken lightly. Voting is a responsibility that is part of our freedom, it's a shame when it's treated irresponsibly as a joke, a bribe, or a tally on someone's daily sheet.

True, though the voting system in the US is bizarre to me to say the least.

[Jenny in Atl]

Fair enough. :D But the requirements for documentation are a bit more stringent than in those day. We also have the advantage of computerized registration to catch multiple single registrations, etc.

 

True, though the voting system in the US is bizarre to me to say the least.

 

All you have to do is look at the history of voting in the US. They have always wanted to limit who could vote, and still do. :lol:

I spent almost two hours in line shuffling slowly passes numerous voting machines. .. only two people there to confirm registration, and only eight voting booths open for an estimated 400 people. :tongue_smilie:

[astrid]

Well, I can't speak about the laws in Ohio, but I know that in Connecticut, the last day to register to vote is October 28th, for precisely that reason. There are a lot of things that have to happen to prepare for the election. Registrars must hold "Open Registration Sessions" at our office on specific dates and times, whereby anyone who is eligible to vote can come in and register. Then, on the 29th, I believe (don't have my registrar calendar in front of me) we have to prepare and test the machines, then lock them down and seal them until the polls open. Also, we have to print the board lists that the poll workers will have in front of them at the polls. When a voter walks into the polls, they show ID and are checked off the voter list. If their name is not on the voter list, they do not vote.

 

At the end of the night, after the polls close, the poll workers count up the number of names they have crossed off. The number of voters who are checked off the list MUST MUST MUST match the machine totals, plus the number of "spoiled ballots." (Spoiled ballots are those which a voter has, well, spoiled somehow. Either checked the wrong candidate (their choice) or made an errant mark which the machine wouldn't read, etc. A spoiled ballot must be placed in a separate envelope by the moderator and the voter is issued a new ballot.)

 

If the totals do not match, every ballot must be hand-counted by the registrars, overseen by the moderator. If they still do not match, an investigation is begun and potentially, the results are invalidated.

 

Really, it's a pretty fail-safe process, at least hear in CT. We registrars work very hard to ensure it stays that way.

 

astrid

[nmoira]

Astrid, what checks are made in CT on new voter applications. I'm assuming they're checked against the existing voter database, but (when provided) are the driver's license numbers checked, etc?

[nmoira]

Accusations have frequently been made before past elections. These accusations against ACORN turned out to be unfounded during subsequent investigation. With all the money and manpower put on the issue during the Bush administration (and remember, the US Attorney firings scandal centered around the issue of investigation of "voter fraud), only a handful of individuals in the whole country have been found guilty of anything.

 

And one of the fired US Attorneys has spoken out about this ACORN fiasco. Before anyone says "partisan," you might want to know before being inappropriately fired for not bring bogus voter fraud charges right before an election (as per a report from the DOJ's Office of the Inspector General -- the good stuff about voter fraud starts on page 158), that David Iglesias was an up and coming member of the New Mexico Republican Party and had even been the Republican nominee for that state's Attorney General in 1998.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Yes, I was completely appalled by the attempt of the GOP to fraudulently purge voter rolls in Montana. From The Montana Standard newspaper:

 

http://www.mtstandard.com/articles/2008/10/05/opinion/hjjbijjejjigfj.txt

I agree, and I was completely appalled by this: "Michigan GOP Aims to Keep Foreclosure Victims From Polls," and I'm even providing a Fox link:

 

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/16/obama-camp-michigan-gop-aims-to-keep-foreclosure-victims-from-polls/

 

 

Really? Can you provide credible links showing any Republican organization involved with voter fraud?

Here's just one of many:

 

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2005/Diebold_CEO_resigns_after_reports_of_1212.html

 

 

Shall I add that McCain spoke at an Acorn event two years ago?

 

Bertha Lewis, Chief Organizer of ACORN, said, "It has deeply saddened us to see Senator McCain abandon his historic support for ACORN and our efforts to support the goals of low-income Americans. Maybe it is out of desperation that Senator McCain has forgotten that he was for ACORN before he was against ACORN; he was for immigration reform before he was against immigration reform; and he was a maverick before he became erratic. We were thrilled to partner with him to help reform the outdated immigration laws in this country, and were pleased to work closely with him on this issue."

Lewis continued, "We expected Senator McCain to support our efforts to give voice to millions of American's who have never participated in an election before. We are surprised at his efforts to vilify an organization that, until recently, he saw as an ally. Maybe this surprise attack and change of heart is indicative of his state of mind, and the way he would govern."

Senator McCain and his campaign have recently launched a series of coordinated attacks on ACORN, the nation's largest community organization of low-and middle-income families.

Ms. Lewis went on to say that, "We are sure that the extremists he is trying to get into a froth will be even more excited to learn that John McCain stood shoulder to shoulder with ACORN, at an ACORN co-sponsored event, to promote immigration reform."

Senator McCain was joined at the rally by Rep. Kendrick Meek (D-FL), Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart (RFL), leaders from both political parties, immigrant communities, and members of labor, business, and religious organizations.

Great post.

 

 

For motherofjoy, no offense, but this post is odd. Many, if not most, churches are verrry careful about taking stances in political races on any level.

You're kidding, right? Many people have admitted to me that they vote for whom their pastor says. In some cases, they are given names. In other cases, it's less blatant like, "You must not vote for a candidate who (insert whatever)."

 

Let's not forget about the church that Palin attended in Wasilla:

 

"Kalnins has publicly inveighed against Democrats. Pastor Ed Kalnins questioned whether voters for Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry would make it into heaven, "I'm not going tell you who to vote for, but if you vote for this particular person, I question your salvation. I'm sorry."[28] Pastor Ed Kalnins says that God put President George W. Bush in office, and that critics of President Bush, will go to hell."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasilla_Assembly_of_God

 

 

EXACTLY my point! As a Democrat, I'm tired of being characterized as a godless, liberal whackjob. It hurts both ways. Painting with a broad brush is never a good idea.

I'll take "liberal" and "godless." Just leave off "whackjob." ;)

[ma23peas]

Accusations have frequently been made before past elections. These accusations against ACORN turned out to be unfounded during subsequent investigation. With all the money and manpower put on the issue during the Bush administration (and remember, the US Attorney firings scandal centered around the issue of investigation of "voter fraud), only a handful of individuals in the whole country have been found guilty of anything.

 

:lol: Accusations against ACORN for directing their employees to do these illegal actions have been not 'unfounded' but unproven...many ACORN employees in past elections have faced criminal charges but they could not tie it back to ACORN...it's called not getting your hand caught in the cookie jar...what is amazing is the number of ACORN employees even district managers who are repeatedly caught dispersing thousands upon thousands of illegal registrations and votes...these mail in ballots have already been cast..we have no idea how many of those will be thrown out.

 

Again, the facts speak for themselves..any 'non-partisan' organization who is for the right to vote for ALL people especially those 'disenfranchised' and focuses 95% of their funds on the top 10 swing states...says volumes about their intent...here is an article from 2006, indictments brought, but just read what ACORN is tied to...trying to push legislation that will disallow picture ID's for voting? And isn't it timely that their funding comes from earmarks from Fannie and Freddie.

The Acorn Indictments

A union-backed outfit faces charges of election fraud.

 

Friday, November 3, 2006 12:01 A.M. EST

So, less than a week before the midterm elections, four workers from Acorn, the liberal activist group that has registered millions of voters, have been indicted by a federal grand jury for submitting false voter registration forms to the Kansas City, Missouri, election board. But hey, who needs voter ID laws?

We wish this were an aberration, but allegations of fraud have tainted Acorn voter drives across the country. Acorn workers have been convicted in Wisconsin and Colorado, and investigations are still under way in Ohio, Tennessee and Pennsylvania.

The good news for anyone who cares about voter integrity is that the Justice Department finally seems poised to connect these dots instead of dismissing such revelations as the work of a few yahoos. After the federal indictments were handed up in Kansas City this week, the U.S. Attorney's office said in a statement that "This national investigation is very much ongoing."

Let's hope so. Acorn officials bill themselves as nonpartisan community organizers merely interested in giving a voice to minorities and the poor. In reality, Acorn is a union-backed, multimillion-dollar outfit that uses intimidation and other tactics to push for higher minimum wage mandates and to trash Wal-Mart and other non-union companies.

 

 

 

 

 

Operating in at least 38 states (as well as Canada and Mexico), Acorn pushes a highly partisan agenda, and its organizers are best understood as shock troops for the AFL-CIO and even the Democratic Party. As part of the Fannie Mae reform bill, House Democrats pushed an "affordable housing trust fund" designed to use Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac profits to subsidize Acorn, among other groups. A version of this trust fund actually passed the Republican House and will surely be on the agenda again next year. Acorn and its affiliates have pulled some real stunts in recent years. In Ohio in 2004, a worker for one affiliate was given crack cocaine in exchange for fraudulent registrations that included underage voters, dead voters and pillars of the community named Mary Poppins, Dick Tracy and Jive Turkey. During a Congressional hearing in Ohio in the aftermath of the 2004 election, officials from several counties in the state explained Acorn's practice of dumping thousands of registration forms in their lap on the submission deadline, even though the forms had been collected months earlier.

"You have to wonder what's the point of that, if not to overwhelm the system and get phony registrations on the voter rolls," says Thor Hearne of the American Center for Voting Rights, who also testified at the hearing. "These were Democratic officials saying that they felt their election system in Ohio was under assault by these kinds of efforts to game the system."

Given this history, it's not surprising that Acorn is so hostile to voter identification laws and other efforts to ensure fairness and accuracy at the polls. In Missouri last month, the state Supreme Court held that a photo ID requirement to vote was overly burdensome and a violation of the state constitution. Acorn was behind the original suit challenging the statute, and it has brought similar challenges in several other states, including Ohio.

A recent Pew Research Center survey found that blacks today are almost twice as likely as they were in 2004 to say they have little or no confidence in the voting system. Such a finding would seem like a powerful argument for voter ID laws, which consistently poll well among people of all races and incomes and would increase confidence in the voting process. Of course, voter ID laws would also cut down on fraud, which, judging from the latest indictments, would put a real crimp in Acorn's style.

[astrid]

Astrid, what checks are made in CT on new voter applications. I'm assuming they're checked against the existing voter database, but (when provided) are the driver's license numbers checked, etc?

 

Our registrar computer is provided by the Secretary of State's office, and serviced by them, and linked ONLY to their database and network. DL numbers are put into the computer system in the appropriate "box" on the form. The system checks them against state DMV lists and will return an "invalid number" message box if they've written down any old thing, or copied it down wrong (as most often happens; transposition of numbers, etc.) If we run into a problem, we usually call the applicant. Remember, we're a small town. Also, all 169 towns in Connecticut are linked via this system, so if I put in a person's application and he's registered in another town, I get a pop-up message telling me that. Quite often, it's because he or she just moved to town and the registrar in the other town hasn't gotten into the office yet to take him off their list, so we just call the person, confirm that they've moved, call the other town, and they take the person off their list.

 

Now, I'm headed down to the Registrar's office to continue processing the gazillion new voter registrations we've gotten in. Literally, it's been impossible to keep up. Our Town Hall closes at noon on Fridays, and I know I'll be there until at least 4 pm.

 

Astrid

[nmoira]

:lol: Accusations against ACORN for directing their employees to do these illegal actions have been not 'unfounded' but unproven...many ACORN employees in past elections have faced criminal charges but they could not tie it back to ACORN...it's called not getting your hand caught in the cookie jar...what is amazing is the number of ACORN employees even district managers who are repeatedly caught dispersing thousands upon thousands of illegal registrations and votes...these mail in ballots have already been cast..we have no idea how many of those will be thrown out.

Proof? There's not a shred of evidence to support this supposition.

 

Again, the facts speak for themselves..any 'non-partisan' organization who is for the right to vote for ALL people especially those 'disenfranchised' and focuses 95% of their funds on the top 10 swing states...says volumes about their intent

The facts must be speaking directly to you. This is completely within ACORN's rights.

 

...here is an article from 2006, indictments brought, but just read what ACORN is tied to...trying to push legislation that will disallow picture ID's for voting? And isn't it timely that their funding comes from earmarks from Fannie and Freddie.

It's not just ACORN who is fighting this.

 

Brennan Center for Justice

NAACP and teachers

The ACLU

numerous community organizations

often the Democratic Party

 

And here's an Op-ed piece by Jimmy Carter and James Baker. Yes, they are for a voter ID, but there's more if you remember the findings of their bi-partisan commission on federal election reform. If not, read the article.

The Acorn Indictments

A union-backed outfit faces charges of election fraud.

 

Friday, November 3, 2006 12:01 A.M. EST

So, less than a week before the midterm elections, four workers from Acorn, the liberal activist group that has registered millions of voters, have been indicted by a federal grand jury for submitting false voter registration forms to the Kansas City, Missouri, election board. But hey, who needs voter ID laws?

A registration is not the same as a vote.

 

All these people in a tizzy about getting elections stolen cannot point to other than isolated incidences (and not even to do with ACORN) of illegal voting. Aren't the votes the issue.

 

What exactly are you imagining ACORN's vote fraud mechanism to be?

 

We wish this were an aberration, but allegations of fraud have tainted Acorn voter drives across the country. Acorn workers have been convicted in Wisconsin and Colorado, and investigations are still under way in Ohio, Tennessee and Pennsylvania.

I don't have time to fact check this, but if they were, it's only relevant to the election stealing argument if they were convicted of submitting false votes.

 

The good news for anyone who cares about voter integrity is that the Justice Department finally seems poised to connect these dots instead of dismissing such revelations as the work of a few yahoos. After the federal indictments were handed up in Kansas City this week, the U.S. Attorney's office said in a statement that "This national investigation is very much ongoing."

Do you know what the results were? Nothing. They found nothing other than a few isolated incidences. Remember, the AG office made this a huge priority... and they still come up with nothing.

 

If we're going to run with supposition and let "facts speak for themselves," don't you think it's a bit odd that in a hotly contested election year, politically chosen US Attorney generals are choosing to open investigations in battleground states only a few weeks before the election? Don't you think it's a bit suspect (and unethical) that "leaks" of a supposed FBI investigation have happened?

 

"You have to wonder what's the point of that, if not to overwhelm the system and get phony registrations on the voter rolls," says Thor Hearne of the American Center for Voting Rights, who also testified at the hearing. "These were Democratic officials saying that they felt their election system in Ohio was under assault by these kinds of efforts to game the system."

IN MOST STATES, ACORN IS REQUIRED TO SUBMIT ALL FORMS THEY RECEIVE FROM CANVASSERS. Sorry for the all caps, but you seem to have missed this earlier. I have seen no statistics indicating how many of the registration forms in question were actually flagged as ACORN as suspicious. This would be an interesting factoid for investigators to release, no?

[nmoira]

 

Letter from Obama campaign's General Counsel to Attorney General Mukasey concerning voter fraud probe.

[nmoira]

Yesterday, news was "leaked" that the FBI was getting involved with various ACORN investigations. With respect to the involvement of the FBI and US Attorneys in the ACORN "scandal." It is clear that the DOJ's own manual is not being followed. What other reason for the "leaks" and the involvement of US Attorneys as a driving force in the "investigations" than for political purposes? Highlights are mine.

 

Excerpts from the Seventh Edition of Federal Prosecution of. Election Offenses (warning, large PDF document). This document is public domain, so large quotes are OK:

 

Pages 11-12: Chapter 1 Part G: Investigative Considerations in Election Fraud Cases

 

When investigating election fraud, three considerations that are absent from most criminal investigations must be kept in mind: (1) respect for the primary role of the states in administering the voting process, (2) an awareness of the role of the election in the governmental process, and (3) sensitivity to the exercise of First Amendment rights in the election context. As a result there are limitations on various investigative steps in an election fraud case.

 

 

 

In most cases, election-related documents should not be taken from the custody of local election administrators until the election to which they pertain has been certified, and the time for contesting the election results has expired. This avoids interfering with the governmental processes affected by the election

 

 

 

Another limitation affects voter interviews. Election fraud cases often depend on the testimony of individual voters whose votes were co-opted in one way or another.

But in most cases voters should not be interviewed, or other voter-related investigation done, until after the election is over. Such overt investigative steps may chill legitimate voting activities. They are also likely to be perceived by voters and candidates as an intrusion into the election. Indeed, the fact of a federal criminal investigation may itself become an issue in the election.

Pages 9-10: Chapter 1 Part E: Federal Role: Prosecution, Not Intervention

 

The principal responsibility for overseeing the election process rests with the states.

With the significant exception of violations of the Voting Rights Act involving denigration of the right to vote based on race, ethnicity, or language minority status, the federal government plays a role secondary to that of the states in election matters. It is the states that have primary authority to ensure that only qualified individuals register and vote, that the polling process is conducted fairly, and that the candidate who received the most valid votes is certified as the winner.

 

 

 

The federal prosecutor's role in matters involving corruption of the process by which elections are conducted, on the other hand, focuses on prosecuting individuals who commit federal crimes in connection with an election. Deterrence of future similar crimes is an important objective of such federal prosecutions. However, this deterrence is achieved by public awareness of the Department's prosecutive interest in, and prosecution of, election fraud * not through interference with the process itself.

 

 

 

Because the federal prosecutor’s function in the area of election fraud is not primarily preventative, any criminal investigation by the Department must be conducted in a way that minimizes the likelihood that the investigation itself may become a factor in the election.

The mere fact that a criminal investigation is being conducted may impact upon the adjudication of election litigation and contests in state courts. Moreover, the seizure by federal authorities of documentation generated by the election process may deprive state election and judicial authorities of critical materials needed to resolve election disputes, conduct recounts, and certify the ultimate winners.

Accordingly, it is the general policy of the Department not to conduct overt investigations, including interviews with individual voters, until after the outcome of the election allegedly affected by the fraud is certified.

 

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

Because the federal prosecutor’s function in the area of election fraud is not primarily preventative, any criminal investigation by the Department must be conducted in a way that minimizes the likelihood that the investigation itself may become a factor in the election. The mere fact that a criminal investigation is being conducted may impact upon the adjudication of election litigation and contests in state courts. Moreover, the seizure by federal authorities of documentation generated by the election process may deprive state election and judicial authorities of critical materials needed to resolve election disputes, conduct recounts, and certify the ultimate winners. Accordingly, it is the general policy of the Department not to conduct overt investigations, including interviews with individual voters, until after the outcome of the election allegedly affected by the fraud is certified.

 

 

Well, on the bright side, here's this. Good to know the high courts are upholding the law as it is written.

[nmoira]

Well, on the bright side, here's this. Good to know the high courts are upholding the law as it is written.

Well, here's some more Republican Voter Fraud.

 

Excerpt (244 words):

 

 

Election officials and lawmakers have launched investigations into the activities of YPM workers in Florida and Massachusetts. In Arizona, the firm was recently a defendant in a civil rights lawsuit. Prosecutors in Los Angeles and Ventura counties say they are investigating complaints about the company.

 

 

 

The firm, which a Republican Party spokesman said is paid $7 to $12 for each registration it secures, has denied any wrongdoing and says it has never been charged with a crime.

 

 

 

The 70,000 voters YPM has registered for the Republican Party this year will help combat the public perception that it is struggling amid Democratic gains nationally, give a boost to fundraising efforts and bolster member support for party leaders, political strategists from both parties say.

 

 

 

Those who were formerly Democrats may stop receiving phone calls and literature from that party, perhaps affecting its get-out-the-vote efforts. They also will be given only a Republican ballot in the next primary election if they do not switch their registration back before then.

 

 

 

Some also report having their registration status changed to absentee without their permission; if they show up at the polls without a ballot they may be unable to vote.

 

 

 

The Times randomly interviewed 46 of the hundreds of voters whose election records show they were recently re-registered as Republicans by YPM, and 37 of them -- more than 80% -- said that they were misled into making the change or that it was done without their knowledge.