S/O Childhood Food-Safety Scars

[Cecropia]

I'm wondering why you were traumatized if nobody ever got sick? What made you start questioning their practices to such an extent that your "scared for life"?

 

We follow some of those practices (although dh is the cook not me).  Meat thawed on the counter, raw cookie dough, leftovers put away eventually, etc.  Nobody gets sick.

 

I agree on the car thing though - ick.  We don't leave meat or egg based stuff in the car for any length of time at all unless it's the middle of winter (like leftovers from eating out if going to a movie).

 

Well, like I said, my experience of not getting sick is just an anecdote.  My parents' experiences of not getting sick are anecdotes.  It's not data...

 

I'm an analytical person who reads scientific journals for fun.  I've seen enough research on food contamination/bacteria to take it seriously, even if I personally have never gotten sick.  I take it extra seriously when there is an immune-compromised person to feed, such as myself being pregnant or my child under age 3.

 

Honestly, I'm kind of surprised at a lot of the answers to this thread.  I don't know anyone IRL, among my peer-age at least, who prepares or stores food like my parents do.  Of course I don't live with them and know exactly what they do when they cook every time, maybe they act differently with company.  And I wouldn't care quite so much about my parents' choices if they were taking all the risks themselves, to each their own... but these are meals that they are serving to all of us when we visit.

[Guest]

I'm like your parents, but the only food poisoning I've had in my life (3 times) were from restaurants.

[ktgrok]

I have a genunine question about leaving meat to thaw on the counter...

 

If the meat is being cooked, how is thawing on the counter bad?  Like, doesn't the cooking kill any germs that might make you sick?  Now, I am asking that but DO recognize that some people don't always completely cook their meat all the way through, like medium rare steaks, etc.  But, don't most people cook most meats completely?  Ground beef for tacos, chicken breasts, turkey legs, pork chops, etc etc, doesn't all that stuff usually get completely cooked?  And then, that complete cooking would then kill anything, right?

 

Because often it isn't the bacteria itself that makes you sick, it is toxins that the bacteria produce. So, sitting on the counter the edges of the meat come to the dangerous temperature for bacterial growth while the inside is still frozen. That bacteria has a field day, reproducing and making lots of toxins. Which, by the way, you can't taste or smell. Then you cook it, and yes, you kill all the bacteria, but the heat doesn't destroy the toxins, which then make you sick. 

[Cecropia]

I have a genunine question about leaving meat to thaw on the counter...

 

If the meat is being cooked, how is thawing on the counter bad?  Like, doesn't the cooking kill any germs that might make you sick?  Now, I am asking that but DO recognize that some people don't always completely cook their meat all the way through, like medium rare steaks, etc.  But, don't most people cook most meats completely?  Ground beef for tacos, chicken breasts, turkey legs, pork chops, etc etc, doesn't all that stuff usually get completely cooked?  And then, that complete cooking would then kill anything, right?

 

First, you can kill the bacteria, but that does not necessarily destroy the toxins that they have already produced, some of which are heat-resistant.

 

Second, there is a bacterial load limit to cause illness in people.  Say 100 cells of E. coli will cause illness (not sure of exact number).  If you cook meat that has a small colony of E.coli because it's been kept frozen/refrigerated, and bring it to the recommended temperature that will kill over 99% of the bacteria, you'll be safe.  But if you've let that meat sit in conditions that culture a large colony, you might still end up with >100 live cells after the other 99% have died off.

 

Generally, ground meats start out with a much higher contamination # (bacteria found throughout) than solid pieces of meat (bacteria on external surfaces only), so there is more risk.

[mellifera33]

Thanks to this thread, my dreams last night included watching a lady make Caesar dressing with raw eggs.  :laugh:

[AHASRADA]

I have the somewhat opposite situation. My parents are extremely cautious with food prep protocols. No thawing on the counter, different cutting boards for meat and other foods, scrubbing down everything that has come in contact with meat using vinegar, overcooking all meat, never leaving any food out for more than an hour, usually less.

 

I am well aware of safe protocols, I just follow them much more loosely based on what is convenient and practical in my life. No one has ever gotten sick from food I have prepared. I do thaw on the counter or in a bowl of water, and leave food out until it is cool enough to put in the fridge (this could be 4+ hours for a large pot of soup). We each eat dinner at different times due to activities, so if dinner is ready at 7pm, it often stays out until 10pm when the last person has eaten and puts away the leftovers.

 

I do draw the line at raw eggs. We do not eat raw cookie dough (unless storebought pasturized), and I never make any recipes using raw eggs, ever. Maybe if we had our own chickens, but with supermarket eggs, no way. I am also much more stringent about food safety when serving guests (especially my parents) because everyone has different gastrointestinal tolerance levels.

 

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[BarbecueMom]

After I said I don't thaw shrink wrapped meat on the counter... I have venison sitting out next to the sink for fajitas tonight. The package is wider than the plate and I don't want to clean blood drips out of the fridge if it leaks.

 

(Also I'm not eating it.)

[Wheres Toto]

Has anyone ever read Toxin by Robin Cook?   This discussion reminded me about it.  Almost turned me into a vegetarian.

[Catalytic]

The deep-freeze thread got me thinking... My parents scarred me for life with their food handling practices.  I still feel like I take my life into my own hands when I eat a meal at home.  I'm sure that this is a huge reason why I am so paranoid/meticulous about meal preparation and hand washing.

 

When they thaw frozen meat, they just leave it on the counter overnight or longer.  Even a frozen ham or turkey is thawed this way.  After a meal is cooked, it sits out on the stove/counter for hours and hours until someone finally gets around to putting it away.  Or maybe it sits long enough to be used for the next meal.  If the cook is sick, he/she still has no qualms about constantly tasting and getting their germs in the food.  Hand washing means wiping your hands on the dish towel (sometimes a brief few-seconds scrub of soap if you're lucky).  Making cookies or cake?  We'd always eat the raw batter...

 

But my parents are really hardy, they could probably count on one hand the times they've ever gotten sick from a home cooked meal (the majority of meals).  Honestly, I don't remember getting sick from meals at home, and I'm sure they handled food the same way then.  As an adult, I've had some real fights with them when I've been pregnant or my kids were really young and I didn't feel like the food they were being given was safe.  My parents don't understand why I get so worked up about it, and obviously they won't change the way they do things.  Why would they?  They don't ever get sick from it.  It's really quite amazing that they still get away with this, even in their 70's now with various health problems.

 

Exactly what we do, and the *only* time I have ever had a food borne illness was when I was in junior high, from tuna salad at a restaurant salad bar.  The *only* food I have hyper-OCD issues with are potatoes.  Many years ago (25-30!),, I read a story in a Guideposts written by a mom whose son had eaten a foil-wrapped baked potato that had been left on the counter and nearly died.  His struggle to come back (he was deathly ill for a LONG time) stuck in my head and now I'm positively anal about potatoes...any potatoes, french fries, baked, whatever.

[hornblower]

Ok, this is why I hate eating at other people's homes. 

And this is why if you travel, the locals are all fine but you get sick eating the same local food. 

You build your own internal resistance to your own germs but you'll infect newcomers. 

And the whole 'we survived' thing is not funny to people who didn't, or to people who lost kidney function due to ecoli.  This such an extreme form of confirmation bias trumping the measured evidence ....

[hornblower]

Has anyone ever read Toxin by Robin Cook?   This discussion reminded me about it.  Almost turned me into a vegetarian.

 

I already was vegetarian when I read that but dh wasn't.  I'm actually pretty sure a main reason he switched to veg*n with us was that he got tired of decontaminating the kitchen after prepping his own meal. 

[skimomma]

Ok, this is why I hate eating at other people's homes. 

 

And this is why if you travel, the locals are all fine but you get sick eating the same local food. 

 

You build your own internal resistance to your own germs but you'll infect newcomers. 

 

And the whole 'we survived' thing is not funny to people who didn't, or to people who lost kidney function due to ecoli.  This such an extreme form of confirmation bias trumping the measured evidence ....

 

I am MUCH less lax whenever I am feeding anyone outside of my own family.  For me anyway, there is the gray area.  Yes, leaving a pot of cooked beans on the stove to cool is bad bad bad but is it better or worse to put a huge pot of hot beans into the fridge where much more sensitive foods will then become warmer than 40 degrees while the fridge cools down the beans?  And I also think tossing everything past an expiration date when it is still perfectly good is just a waste of money.  I won't feed it to anyone else, but we sure will eat it. 

 

I won't touch the meat thawing thing since I have no experience preparing meat.