Would this solve my problem with Singapore math?

[Tiramisu]

Background: DD10 will not let me teach her math and she is reluctant to use the Singapore textbook. Still, it seems to be working for her. I've given her math assessments to be sure she's okay.

 

For the last two years, I've looked at other programs since I always worry about the self-teaching of a program that's not considered self-teaching, and I keep obsessing about what to do.

 

I just had a thought about what might work to help her to possibly use Singapore better. It might not be the best idea given my organizational skills, but here goes:

 

I buy a cheap used copy of the PM 5A textbook and cut the binding off. I do the same with the workbook and Intensive Practice book I just bought.

 

Then I make a packet for each lesson/topic with textbook pages first, workbook pages next, and then the Intensive Practice pages.

 

I could staple them or bind them together in some way for her to work through sequentially. I wouldn't mind ideas about how to do that.

 

This might not really solve the problem, but do you think it's worth trying?

[PeterPan]

Do you actually write in the textbook?  If you don't, I would probably paperclip those pages or put a post-it flag or something and then only staple the bundle of the consumable pages.

 

I definitely like your idea.  It's how we work with our tutor.  You can use paperclips if you want, so she can use single pages.  Some kids do better with paperclips than staples.  The packets can go in order in her vertical file or whatever you use to organize her work for the day/week.

 

I think it's a really good idea.  She's probably an extremely strong vsl person.  Do you hae reason to think you're NOT doing a good job?  I mean, I don't want to miss something here, but she's been doing SM for 2 yeas independently and she's going into 5A.  Sounds kinda like kick butt progress to me!  Maybe this is not an area to worry about?  What is it you're seeing happen that you want to solve?  Anxiety?  Lack of generalization/carryover?  Poor scores on a standardized test?  Anxiety?  Inefficiency?

[wapiti]

I generally like the idea.  Regarding physical logistics, I would worry about different lessons being on back-to-back pages.  Being the lazy person that I am, I'd probably just make a little chart, with a column for the textbook pages to cover, a column for the workbook page numbers, and a column for the IP page numbers.  But, you probably already do something like that if you provide her assignments in some sort of written list.

 

I agree w/Elizabeth that it sounds like it may be working for you all, so if it is, rather than switching now I think you'd be much better off continuing through 5 and then reevaluating at the end (whether to go to 6 or change to a prealgebra).

[PeterPan]

Wapiti, admit it.  We would rip the book apart, scan the pages, and print them so they could be right.   :D  Then we'd throw it away because we don't violate copyright.   :)  I'm just saying fair use let's you do that.  Or throw all the pages onto the ipad as pdf and write on them that way.

Edited July 4, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[kbutton]

I would leave the textbook whole and maybe chop up the WB and IP books. The only problem with the IP is that each activity is not as contained to one page as with the WB, but maybe you could photocopy those little sections that carryover. Or, you could go through and write a number on each page to indicate what order you want pages done--all the pages you want done at one time in any of the three books would have the same number on them. So, you might have 1 page in the TB, 2 in the WB, and 1.5 in the IP (you can draw a line for stopping) that all say 1 or A. The next chunk would all be 2 or B.

 

I did a lot of flipping through stuff and saying, "This looks like it goes with this lesson, do it with your TB work." If my kids are tired of a topic, I sometimes let them pick something else in the WB or IP depending on the difficulty level (my older one didn't use the WB at all).

 

I basically just spot-checked their understanding when they did independent work. My older one started being quite independent with Singapore around level 5, and I'm still feeling out my little guy. He's going to do the IP a little behind rather than on level, so he can basically browse it all he likes, and we'll just date sections as he does them. When he finishes a chunk of pages or has done as much as I want him to in that section for now, I paperclip or binderclip the pages together and tell him to leave those alone for now.

[Tiramisu]

I would leave the textbook whole and maybe chop up the WB and IP books. The only problem with the IP is that each activity is not as contained to one page as with the WB, but maybe you could photocopy those little sections that carryover. Or, you could go through and write a number on each page to indicate what order you want pages done--all the pages you want done at one time in any of the three books would have the same number on them. So, you might have 1 page in the TB, 2 in the WB, and 1.5 in the IP (you can draw a line for stopping) that all say 1 or A. The next chunk would all be 2 or B.

 

I did a lot of flipping through stuff and saying, "This looks like it goes with this lesson, do it with your TB work." If my kids are tired of a topic, I sometimes let them pick something else in the WB or IP depending on the difficulty level (my older one didn't use the WB at all).

 

I basically just spot-checked their understanding when they did independent work. My older one started being quite independent with Singapore around level 5, and I'm still feeling out my little guy. He's going to do the IP a little behind rather than on level, so he can basically browse it all he likes, and we'll just date sections as he does them. When he finishes a chunk of pages or has done as much as I want him to in that section for now, I paperclip or binderclip the pages together and tell him to leave those alone for now.

Does your older guy work through textbook lessons alone?

 

I wonder if my DD would do that.....hmmm.... But it doesn't have the white space of the wb...

[Tiramisu]

Do you actually write in the textbook?  If you don't, I would probably paperclip those pages or put a post-it flag or something and then only staple the bundle of the consumable pages.

 

The problem is dd wouldn't use the textbook at all and go straight to the workbook.

 

I definitely like your idea.  It's how we work with our tutor.  You can use paperclips if you want, so she can use single pages.  Some kids do better with paperclips than staples.  The packets can go in order in her vertical file or whatever you use to organize her work for the day/week.

 

I think it's a really good idea.  She's probably an extremely strong vsl person.  Do you hae reason to think you're NOT doing a good job?  I mean, I don't want to miss something here, but she's been doing SM for 2 yeas independently and she's going into 5A.  Sounds kinda like kick butt progress to me!  Maybe this is not an area to worry about?  What is it you're seeing happen that you want to solve?  Anxiety?  Lack of generalization/carryover?  Poor scores on a standardized test?  Anxiety?  Inefficiency?

 

This is a good question. She's fast and sloppy. She usually get things correct but not always. It's probably not much different than it would be in another program. I guess I have this ideal of her getting thorough instruction and deep understanding. She just kind of flies through things as quickly as she can without any care. I guess it doesn't feel like a real education. But she does apply math to real life. I haven't given her a standardized test yet, but I've given her various placement tests from different programs and she knows what she should besides the little gaps you'll have between different curriculum.

 

The reality is that she's who she is. She's bright but doesn't like school work, doesn't want to put effort into anything or do anything that's not necessary, and tends to be sloppy and careless. That won't change with any program. It's kind of how she's hardwired.

 

And I was going through all her work from last year and thinking about her OT evals. I'm rather convinced she has spatial dysgraphia and ADHD-type stuff going on. What her work looks like just doesn't reflect her abilities. But she's 10 and she can get correct answers before I can.

 

At least she does her work every day.

 

Last year, writing was our goal. Her printing is automatic now, I think, and it's more legible than before. But it's still not easily understandable and the spacing is far out.

 

I think this year, I'd like to make following directions a goal. It might not be perfect but maybe we can make it better.

[MerryAtHope]

I like the idea, and think I'd try it. I don't know what it is about having the separate books--that was one of the things that made my oldest dislike Singapore. I think he wanted everything in one place.

 

Do you correct her work each day? I wonder if you could treat this like a "workbox" kind of scenario--where you simply have only the book she'll be using that day in her "to-do" pile, with the pages marked?

 

I wonder if you could also sit down with her at the beginning of the school year, and let her know that both books have to be done--she can choose whether to do the text on her own, or together with you, but it has to be done. Which way would she prefer? Sometimes framing things in this kind of way helped (we don't have a choice as to whether to do something, but we do have a choice with regard to how). 

[kbutton]

Does your older guy work through textbook lessons alone?

 

I wonder if my DD would do that.....hmmm.... But it doesn't have the white space of the wb...

 

Yes, he does work through the TB lessons alone. Sometimes I ask him some questions or spot check him, but he does the examples and stuff like that to be sure he's doing it "their way" for the most part.

 

He used a notebook for TB answers, and he often did his scratch work on a white board.

 

We kind of made a truce/compromise that he had to sometimes work some problems with me or agree to some sort of checks and balances in his work. It was very much a "If you want to be independent in a, you must check in on x." We also found that he might initially prove himself and then sort of slowly back off his good habits and not do the examples and things like that. We'd have to kind of regroup and make sure we really did check. It worked out pretty well. Kids just may not always see that doing a problem a specific way teaches them more of different skills in the long run. Singapore tends to kind of build in some deceptively powerful strategies that are not to be missed. There are books you can read that kind of tell you the progession without you having to be super familiar with individual lessons in all the books. I can look up a title if you need one. It's written for teachers, and it refers to the US edition of Primary Mathematics for practice work for the teacher. It basically goes through all elementary concepts by topic and demonstrates the progression. If you "get it," you don't necessarily have to work the problems. It's kind of nice to be able to see though where the concepts in the book overlap with the program so that you can monitor if she's getting what she's supposed to at the spot she's in.

 

I think maybe also insisting on doing something together maybe for 7th grade (or whenever pre-a comes up for her) where you insist she does it together with you. You could work that into the agreement starting soon--let her get the idea over time. Let her know it's a trade-off for being independent now. This way, you can spot any major conceptual problems before it's too late, and she probably will have a bit more maturity to handle some feedback.

[Milknhoney]

My son self teaches himself with Singapore. Not quite as young as your daughter - we started at the tail end of 5B. But I think the textbook is quite self-explanatory. If the problem is hurrying through too fast and skipping the textbook, then my solution would probably be to stash away the workbook and tell her that she can have it after she comes to me with the textbook and can tell me she understands. Maybe do a sample problem to prove it. I had to start doing that with the solutions manual - he has to come tell me that he checked his work to try to find his errors on his own first before I give him the answers. He was making way too many careless mistakes. 

[Arcadia]

You can just post it the pages you want her to do. Then hand them to her one at a time. That works for my younger who gets distracted and whine for the sake of whining if he sees a stack. He did SM2A to SM5B.

For my older, I can just give him a stack of books with post its and he can sequentially work through. He did SM2A to SM6B.

[Janeway]

Background: DD10 will not let me teach her math and she is reluctant to use the Singapore textbook. Still, it seems to be working for her. I've given her math assessments to be sure she's okay.

 

For the last two years, I've looked at other programs since I always worry about the self-teaching of a program that's not considered self-teaching, and I keep obsessing about what to do.

 

I just had a thought about what might work to help her to possibly use Singapore better. It might not be the best idea given my organizational skills, but here goes:

 

I buy a cheap used copy of the PM 5A textbook and cut the binding off. I do the same with the workbook and Intensive Practice book I just bought.

 

Then I make a packet for each lesson/topic with textbook pages first, workbook pages next, and then the Intensive Practice pages.

 

I could staple them or bind them together in some way for her to work through sequentially. I wouldn't mind ideas about how to do that.

 

This might not really solve the problem, but do you think it's worth trying?

You could cut the binding off. But that seems like a lot of work.

 

Here is what I would do..just because I am too lazy and whatever else to cut binding off and re put together.

 

I would give her the textbook and let her write straight in it. Have her do 2-3 sections. Maybe have her do 2 sections and then give her the workbook to do one section. And the next day, repeat. On days with reviews or whatever, then make that the only assignment for the day. But basically, use the textbook as a workbook. And make sure you assign the pages from the textbook before the workbook.  I have done this before. 

[MeganW]

The problem I ran into doing that was that sections would "get lost" by the kiddo.  I now cut off bindings and scan so that I have a backup!