I really need help with maths for my 11 yr old

[mumto3girls]

I really need advice and ideas on where to go with math for my 11yr old. She is nearly finished with Singapore 5B and still struggles with some basic facts. I do have 6A in the cupboard that I was planning on moving onto.

 

Today for instance, we were working on graphs and she was unsure of what the difference was between 225 and 300. She even wrote the problem out and still came up with 315. 

 

A few weeks ago, I asked her what half of 70 was. Her answer "you can't halve 70". Her 7yr old sister called out "Half of 70 is 35". This happens quite regularly. My younger two seem to get math. Whereas my oldest is more linguistically minded and loves language.

 

Some days I see her counting on her fingers. Is all this still normal for a child nearing the end of grade 6?

 

I am not naturally mathy myself, so I have really struggled with thinking of other ways to help explain a concept to her. I have found Singapore to be very helpful with the HIG and textbook. They really help me. Even if my daughter still doesn't understand it properly, I feel like I have enough guidance.

 

Most days, there are tears. I wonder if it is worth continuing with Singapore or if there is another program that may be better suited to her. Perhaps Math U See or Teaching Textbooks as I wouldn't have to teach it?! Or do I need to back up somewhere, like to level 2A (that would be humiliating though). She does use Xtramath most days.

 

I feel like she could really use a remedial sort of program, but have no idea what...

 

Oh and just the other day she told me that she really likes Singapore. She likes how the pages are not filled with problems like some other maths programs.

[EKS]

You might want to consider doing a quick run through Math U See.  I did this with my son who was having some conceptual issues after getting halfway through Saxon 7/6.  We spent about a month on each book from Beta-Zeta, and after that, he was solid on arithmetic.

 

Regardless of whether you decide to use MUS or not, I think it is really important that you stay involved.  IMO one of the worst things you can do for a struggling math student is to expect them to learn independently.  She needs a human to work with--and if it can't be you, you need to find a tutor.

[Kiara.I]

I definitely agree you need to be teaching it!

 

For a remedial program, what about Activities for the Abacus by Rightstart? Or give Rightstart a call and see if they suggest something else instead.

 

But one of the cool parts there is that you could mask backing up as far as you need to with "well we need to figure out how all this works on the Abacus, it's a new system for us."

 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[EndOfOrdinary]

Have you done an LD check? This sounds a bit like she is either extremely visual (and is not recieving the information that way) or that she is haveing significant concept issues. To me, it does not sound like a math facts problem. By 11 most kids have a decent number sense, and hers appears to still be quite wonky.

 

Positive side is that you are catching it early. Anything before PreA means you can really shore up skills. Once you start talking abstraction, then everyone is in a world of hurt.

 

I would definitely see if you could get ahold of MUS (which has very "clean" pages also). Even if you did ever other day and alternated the two programs, it might be enough of an aha! moment that things click. MUS is kinethetic and visual. Some kids need that to understand and the pieces come together. If they don't, I would get her tested.

[mumto3girls]

You might want to consider doing a quick run through Math U See.  I did this with my son who was having some conceptual issues after getting halfway through Saxon 7/6.  We spent about a month on each book from Beta-Zeta, and after that, he was solid on arithmetic.

 

Regardless of whether you decide to use MUS or not, I think it is really important that you stay involved.  IMO one of the worst things you can do for a struggling math student is to expect them to learn independently.  She needs a human to work with--and if it can't be you, you need to find a tutor.

 

 

Kai just wondering, did you just purchase the student books from MUS to do this or did you have the DVD's and teacher manuals also?

[mumto3girls]

Yes okay, I probably do need to stay involved with her work. 

 

Just looked at Math Mammoth. That is way cheaper than the likes of MUS. Would something from the blue series be helpful to go along with 5B and 6A? And then move onto MUS after that? I am just not sure about using MUS and Singapore at the same time (mainly due to the cost of MUS).

 

Thanks

[EKS]

Kai just wondering, did you just purchase the student books from MUS to do this or did you have the DVD's and teacher manuals also?

 

I got everything.  You'll also need the blocks.  

 

It was expensive (and this was 10 years ago--it's probably more expensive now) but it was worth it.

[Pistachio mom]

Hello,  Do you have a base 10 set? It makes a huge difference in conceptual understanding in math. Also fraction tiles. Also just learning even/odd number basics visually with 3D objects, or even felt numbers combined with unifix cubes or base 10 set.  All of these ideas will help with any curriculum you choose. You might need to go back to teach with manipulatives, then pictures of objects, then the abstract numbers until she is comprehending the meaning of abstract numbers. Have you worked with her to memorize lists of math multiples? It will make learning multiplication so much easier. I use music to teach them to my children. (the 3's to the tune of Row, Row, Row Your Boat, 7's to the tune of happy Birthday, 12's to the tune of Amazing Grace, etc.) You might consider reviewing math concepts with a general math book like one from DK or Usborne for the sake of ideas and an order in which to review these conceptual gaps. For a child struggling with a specific concept, I like the little math books you can find at the grocery store or a book store, Evan Moore publisher has lots to choose from. A struggling learner might benefit from reviewing one kind of math at a time, rather than the usual spiral approach of many publishers.

 

Dianne Craft's website has some checklists for possible learning issues and specific math helps ideas. I have taken one teacher class through her, and am working on another right brain learning class. Her information has helped me pinpoint the learning needs/weaknesses of my children. The link below is open to Dianne's lesson plans tab for right brain ideas for teaching math. Also, Dr. Ruth Beechick has some resources still in print that used to be individual books: My little yellow one is called An Easy Start in Arithmetic. Since then ( I have used mine for about 15 years) editors have combines this book with the others from the series into one volume that has a title that sounds something like the 3 R's. Even though your daughter is older, if you need ideas with how to teach progression of math concepts, that might also be worth looking at for ideas. I have also used Times Tales to help my right brained learner with an audio processing issue learn her multiplication and division facts.

 

I also really like the math mammoth website. I am still learning all the stuff there. Maria offers 400 pages of free review PDFs if you sign up  for her newsletter. It is one of the many sources to gain teaching knowledge.

 

http://www.diannecraft.org/math-program/

http://www.timestales.com/TTDVDPage.html

 

I use BJ Press for Math and have been very happy with the teaching of "understanding first" before "performance."  It has been a good fit for my family. Any curriculum will involve you teaching the material to your child. That is why sometimes even a great curriculum with a solid teacher's manual might be one of a few tools that you use to help you child learn.

 

I wish you well! I hope some of these ideas will be useful to you or act as a springboard to lead you to better useful ideas of your own. Be encouraged, so much good teaching information is available these days!

[Pistachio mom]

Hi. It's me again....I just re- read your original post. It sounds like your girl does not understand place value. I would definitely recommend a Base 10 set.

 

If you do not want to teach this yourself, the online animated videos at CTC math are very well done. Students take a placement test. They have a free trial. I have read reviews of children doing very well with this and improving several grade levels in a year because they are finally understanding math. I used one of these free trials to explore the course for lower level elementary. It is well done, and the teacher has an Australian accent, which is just fun to hear.  For middle school level, the Thinkwell online teacher is very good also. I used him as back up for math explanations with my oldest student. Even though the content of our text books was more advanced than his course - we absolutely loved his teaching style. It might be worth looking up once you get her caught up.

 

http://ctcmath.com/ctcmath/

http://www.thinkwellhomeschool.com/

[RootAnn]

My biggest struggler with math hadn't made the transition between concrete math and mental math by 11. If there weren't physical objects involved (whether blocks or just a mental image of hay bales), she struggled with the math.

 

I spent more time with manipulatives and the abacus the next year- helping her do each type of problem physically, then a new one if the same type mentally (over and over, rinse, wash, repeat).

 

She got solid on the types of things you mentioned. Now, we still have conceptual issues with decimals, fractions, and percentage. . . But that is a different battle.

[mumto3girls]

Thanks so much Pistachio Mom and RootAnn, your replies were very encouraging. I remembered that sometimes I even count using my fingers :/

 

Yes I do have base 10 blocks. I perhaps go about it the wrong though. I was not familiar with the idea of conceptual before abstract. I would often teach her the lesson using the illustrations in the HIG or textbook. Then if she struggled, I would ask her if she needs me to get the blue blocks out. She doesn't always like that approach, and now I understand why. I will get them out before she comes for her maths lesson. And I will now teach her the concept using whatever manipulatives are necessary, before moving on to the illustrations.

 

I think I will allow half an hour each to work on her maths with her. Previously, I have been trying to cram all my maths time with her into a 20 minute slot. Because I am teaching three, I like to allow 20 minutes per child. Most days, that is not enough for my 11 year old, no wonder she gets frustrated with maths :( I will work with our timetable to give her a full 30 minutes each day. Hopefully that will help.

 

I will go and have a look at Math Mammoth again. I could possibly work on some of these areas on the days that our usual Singapore Math doesn't take a full half hour. 

 

Thanks again so much, I am feeling much about the whole math thing with her :)

[wapiti]

Be prepared that she might not like the look of the MM pages as they may be more crowded than Singapore.  However, I'd definitely allow her to do work on a white board instead.  I'd probably start with the "Blue" topic books at MM, just the one(s) that would deal with place value.  Or, if you have older editions of Singapore, just go over the relevant lessons on place value.

 

It may take a bit of effort to ferret out what the problem is.  It would seem unusual for a student who has been somewhat successful with SM5 to have the types of difficulty you describe.  How does she do with the mental math problems in Singapore?

 

When you asked what half of 70 was, is there a chance that she did not translate that as 70/2 ?  Thinking out loud, I wonder if she has difficulty visualizing the numbers and/or the setup of the problem and/or visualizing the underlying concept such as what it would look like with blocks.  There could be many different possible causes behind that, such as a developmental vision issue that has kept her from using visual memory effectively (and then once such an issue is corrected, the downstream visual memory skill would need to be developed).  Or an odd language/vocab processing issue, though you mentioned that she is good with language.

 

just my two cents - good luck!

Edited July 2, 2016 by wapiti

[MerryAtHope]

I had one that struggled with subtraction and borrowing. We spent several days JUST doing problems with base 10 blocks. First I modeled how to do it, then I made the child a part of the process, then I let the child direct (telling me what to do)--and then after that went smoothly, we walked through how to do this with numbers on paper.

 

For example--for the problem you mentioned, start with 3 hundreds strips. "I want to take 225 away. What do I need to do first?" (You need to exchange one of the 100's for ten 10's.) "Now can I take 225 away? (No, I also need to exchange one of the 10's for ten 1's). Do that. "So far, do I still have 300?" (Make sure she can see that you have two 100's, nine 10's, and ten 1's, and that this does equal 300 still.) "Now can I take 225 away?" (yes). "How much do I have left?" (No 100's, seven 10's, five 1's = 75).  Count them with her as much as needed. Do all kinds of problems where you have to break down larger things into smaller ones. Let her really see how to do this with the blocks before going to paper.

 

When you go to paper, show her how to cross off--The 3 becomes 2 in the 100's column, and the 0 becomes 10 in the 10's column. Then the 10 gets crossed off to leave 9 in the 10's column and 10 goes in the 1's column. Do this on a white board, because it gets messy.  She may be trying to do steps in her head--if she forgets to cross off the 3, and puts a 1 in the 10's column instead of 10, and doesn't cross that off to exchange for ones--she could easily end up with 315 as an answer. She needs to visually see all this with the blocks, then write it all out, before she can get to the short-cut ways we might have of doing it, where we might automatically write a 9 in the 10's column because we know we're exchanging a ten for ones, and so on. 

 

 

[Pistachio mom]

I used the base 10 blocks the same way with my middle child. I did not have a set  with my oldest, just unifix cubes. The base 10 allowed us to physically work the double and triple digit addition and subtraction. I knew when to stop the manipulatives with her when she thought it was just faster to rename the 10 stick as 10 ones  by writing the numbers on paper.  

 

I also just use the base 10 or unifix to make big numbers just for fun. Then we make the same value with felt letters. Then we go up or down 1. Then 10. Then 100. All changing the felt numbers too. My children liked the tactile feel of the felt. I have also used wooden blocks and written a numerical digit on each side. We use 2 or 3 blocks to create numbers. It is fun - like a game. I'm sure there are lots of iPad apps and more "professional" looking products to teach the same concepts. But for us, this worked.

[KSinNS]

MUS could work very well, but I hear the budget issue. Another option is Grubes method. It is more than 100 years old, but I used it with my kid who didn't quite get it, and she now has a solid number sense. It teaches addition, subtraction, multiplication, division and fractions all at once, and can be done orally. It is ideal for the older child. I do supplement with mm worksheets and lots of flash cards, but any worksheets/drill would work. I teach my kids this way now up to 20, then move on to MUS, but you can teach all of arithmetic this way.

 

https://archive.org/details/grubesmethodofte00seelrich

[mumto3girls]

Nearly got all of my planning done. Just been wondering though about the extra maths books for Singapore. I currently only use the HIG, textbook and workbook. I read recently that the Extra Practice book is great for students who need 'extra practice', which I think my daughter definitely falls into. I have also read a little about the CWP and IP.

 

Would the EP work and be beneficial for my DD?

 

Even though she is nearly finished 5B, I would possibly get EP5 for her.

[mumto2]

I am a bit reluctant to even suggest this curriculum because it's a bit old and definitely not talked about often but I thought it worked really well. I used it to accelerate my littles years ago and the author was still alive at that time. When I would call to order new books he would tell me stories of how he taught adults who were basically math illiterate with his method. He had an impressive sucess rate.

 

Professor B http://profb.com/ is set up differently and does teach your child to count on their fingers (the ultimate base 10 ;) ). I just looked and the main book can be purchased for under $20 used on Amazon. The workbook is handy but it is simply problems and not fancy. You could easily make your own pages of problems. It might be the perfect supplement and they look like they are meant for older people which might be an advantage.

 

Just want to add regarding the finger counting. Ds never really took to it so never used it beyond Prof B. Dd18 can still be seen moving her fingers when she is thinking and doing math. :lol: Did not hinder her in the slightist as she is taking University Maths as a major, she simply connected and adapted. No one but her dad an I even notice as she did compete in things like Mathcounts. Both kids are scary quick with mental math probably from those drills.

 

Eta.....extremely teacher intensive. Somewhat scripted. I worked through each lesson with student and a white board. It was mom work too.

 

Btw, also used Singapore all the way through. CWP works best as a supplement. The problems are hard. We used it one or two levels behind the book they were working in.

Edited July 9, 2016 by mumto2