Obsessing about math again. Talk some sense into me.

[Tiramisu]

This is a re-run of questions I faced at the end of last year.

 

DD10 is heading into fifth grade. The important things to know about her is that writing is difficult for her and she gets frustrated easily due to processing glitches.

 

She has virtually self-taught Singapore PM US edition for a few years. I don't like this set up but she can self-destruct when I try to explain things. She is rather intuitive when it comes to math. At the end of the year, finishing 4B, I gave her various placement tests in different curricula and she performed well. Not spectacularly but at grade level or above.

 

These are my options:

 

CLE. 500 level. I loved this for another child, but I'll miss the visual concept presentation from PM and the word problems. I know she could do this with crossing out repetitive problems and get the instruction she needs on her own. It's a workbook so it's perfect.

 

Saxon. 65 or Intermediate 5. She placed in 76 but couldn't do the amount of problems that Saxon requires at that difficulty level. I think 65 is easy but a better fit, and I have the textbook. The problem is, she looked at it and liked it but told me clearly she needs a workbook. That leaves Intermediate 5 with the adaptations workbook, as an option. This has more conceptual explanations than 65, too. It would be easy for her but she would probably do the workbook without looking at the text book for more detailed explanations.

 

MIF. 5. I really like this, and I want that conceptual instruction. But, again, she'd try to skip the textbook and just do the workbook.

 

MM. 5. Got it last year and she looked at it and said yuck. This could be interpreted as a character flaw but all my kids have diagnosed visual issues so it's not just that.

 

Horizons. 5. The workbook would appeal to her but I'm worried about bad reviews about the instruction. Otherwise, it seems great.

 

I'm leaning toward CLE but I'm still longing for more problem solving without adding another book.

 

Help.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Tiramisu

[wapiti]

Did you already rule out Beast?  The reason it came to mind is the intuitive talent.  I haven't used a lot of Beast but generally speaking, AoPS problems tend to be far, far less tedious than other programs, so any frustration involved would not be related to processing speed stuff.  (difficult does not equal tedious.)  (E.g. my slowest processor has the best fit with that program.)

[ScoutTN]

Why not the next level of SM, if it isworking?

[Janeway]

This is a re-run of questions I faced at the end of last year.

 

DD10 is heading into fifth grade. The important things to know about her is that writing is difficult for her and she gets frustrated easily due to processing glitches.

 

She has virtually self-taught Singapore PM US edition for a few years. I don't like this set up but she can self-destruct when I try to explain things. She is rather intuitive when it comes to math. At the end of the year, finishing 4B, I gave her various placement tests in different curricula and she performed well. Not spectacularly but at grade level or above.

 

These are my options:

 

CLE. 500 level. I loved this for another child, but I'll miss the visual concept presentation from PM and the word problems. I know she could do this with crossing out repetitive problems and get the instruction she needs on her own. It's a workbook so it's perfect.

 

Saxon. 65 or Intermediate 5. She placed in 76 but couldn't do the amount of problems that Saxon requires at that difficulty level. I think 65 is easy but a better fit, and I have the textbook. The problem is, she looked at it and liked it but told me clearly she needs a workbook. That leaves Intermediate 5 with the adaptations workbook, as an option. This has more conceptual explanations than 65, too. It would be easy for her but she would probably do the workbook without looking at the text book for more detailed explanations.

 

MIF. 5. I really like this, and I want that conceptual instruction. But, again, she'd try to skip the textbook and just do the workbook.

 

MM. 5. Got it last year and she looked at it and said yuck. This could be interpreted as a character flaw but all my kids have diagnosed visual issues so it's not just that.

 

Horizons. 5. The workbook would appeal to her but I'm worried about bad reviews about the instruction. Otherwise, it seems great.

 

I'm leaning toward CLE but I'm still longing for more problem solving without adding another book.

 

Help.

I looked over the samples of MM and did not like it myself. It just is not a style that will mix well with us.  Horizon's has very little instruction in the book, but worked well with my child who did not want to learn from me. He asked for help when he did not get a problem. And since it was all workbook, I could tell when I corrected if he was missing a concept. 

[Tiramisu]

Did you already rule out Beast?  The reason it came to mind is the intuitive talent.  I haven't used a lot of Beast but generally speaking, AoPS problems tend to be far, far less tedious than other programs, so any frustration involved would not be related to processing speed stuff.  (difficult does not equal tedious.)  (E.g. my slowest processor has the best fit with that program.)

 

She's actually a quick processor if she's processing one thread but she can't integrate many threads. Does that make sense?

 

If she started with Beast she'd have to start with 3A. Is that right?

[Tiramisu]

Why not the next level of SM, if it isworking?

 

I just don't think it's working as well as it should. Not enough review so I've had to add it in. She's also missed some concepts in fraction because she refuses to work with me or go carefully through the textbook.

 

It's not out of the question but it's not a perfect option as concepts will become more complicated and challenging.

[wapiti]

She's actually a quick processor if she's processing one thread but she can't integrate many threads. Does that make sense?

 

If she started with Beast she'd have to start with 3A. Is that right?

 

I'm not entirely sure.  While I've seen that recommended, I don't know how critical that is in terms of prerequisites.  In a case like this, I might be inclined to try the pretest for 4 or 5.  I also wonder whether each level really takes a whole year - that may depend.  I imagine there might be a couple of stray topics that might be nice to pick up in an earlier level and if that turned out to be the case, I'd just pick up the workbook that covered the topic (I think there are roughly 3 topics per workbook?).

 

I just don't think it's working as well as it should. Not enough review so I've had to add it in. She's also missed some concepts in fraction because she refuses to work with me or go carefully through the textbook.

 

It's not out of the question but it's not a perfect option as concepts will become more complicated and challenging.

 

It may be that you'd need to add review to any mastery program, though that seems simpler than trying to add concept instruction or challenge to a more spiral program.

 

I might wonder if it would be easier to continue with SM5 next year and then look to choose a prealgebra after that.

[almondbutterandjelly]

What about Key to Fractions?  Followed by or mixed in with Key to Decimals and Key to Percents?  (I know they aren't on your list, but they are workbooks and more visual.  And I highlight them to add color for my visual kid.)  

[Meadowlark]

I know you don't want to add another book, but I've found that CLE (or BJU actually) relates well to Singapore's Intensive Practice and CWP. I usually have my kids working through both and it's not too much. I like that it presents math from a few different angles and really has them scratching their head. Note-My oldest is only going into 4th so maybe the workload in CLE or BJU gets heavier...we'll see next year.

[Tiramisu]

I know you don't want to add another book, but I've found that CLE (or BJU actually) relates well to Singapore's Intensive Practice and CWP. I usually have my kids working through both and it's not too much. I like that it presents math from a few different angles and really has them scratching their head. Note-My oldest is only going into 4th so maybe the workload in CLE or BJU gets heavier...we'll see next year.

Are you using CLE or BJU and are you using CWP a grade level below? I have a 3rd grade copy She never completed.

 

BJU wasn't on my radar... uh oh...

[Targhee]

Based on what you're saying - wants independence, needs instruction on the page with problems so text isn't skipped, needs review, need problem solving skills - I think you are describing CLE. Or CLE with some added problems (CWP or maybe puzzle type problems printed up from MEP).

[kbutton]

Could you add the Intensive Practice books? They expand on a concept by changing little bits of the problems here and there, and it's a good check for understanding. If you want more practice, you can do a year behind. If you want more depth as well as more problem sets, do it on level.

[Tiramisu]

Could you add the Intensive Practice books? They expand on a concept by changing little bits of the problems here and there, and it's a good check for understanding. If you want more practice, you can do a year behind. If you want more depth as well as more problem sets, do it on level.

Do you mean add it to PM or something else?

[kbutton]

Do you mean add it to PM or something else?

 

Yes, add it to Primary Mathematics.

[Tiramisu]

OK.

 

I had some time alone and went a little crazy.

 

Since I was ordering CLE Reading I bought one math light unit, 502.

 

Then I bought a Singapore 5A workbook and Intensive Practice Book.

 

Meanwhile, DD says she'll write directly in the Saxon book. I just feel like we'd be spinning wheels with 65. If she wants to do it, I'll test her through until she hits new material. That way we will also have time for the Singapore, which is working for her despite our unusual way of using it.

 

Our coop situation is changing so we'll have more time to play around with math.

[MistyMountain]

She's actually a quick processor if she's processing one thread but she can't integrate many threads. Does that make sense?

 

If she started with Beast she'd have to start with 3A. Is that right?

Saxon may not be the best fit then. It has a lot going on at once.

[Tiramisu]

Saxon may not be the best fit then. It has a lot going on at once.

Good point.

[Pistachio mom]

Hi. I use BJ Math. The 5th grade book is a workbook. The 3rd edition, not the 2nd edition. This is the math I am preparing to use for my middle child this year. My oldest has some digraphia issues and the looking back and forth in upper level math slows her down. We used some brain training exercises that have made a world of difference in her math speeds.

 

Whether or not you pick Saxon or BJ Press or Horizons or CLE etc... do not feel like you have to assign all of the problems. Teachers all over assign even or odd, or whatever is the appropriate sampling.

 

Have you looked at any online math programs? You would probably print out the work, then later key in the answers. CTC math covers all levels, Math mammoth, Thinkwell starts in 6th grade level, Alex or Alexis?? some similar title is another respected online choice. The homeschool buyers coop has a lot of reviews from these online programs. There are many more too. That might also be a workbook style option so your student doesn't have to slow down to copy the problems.