G5052 Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 This is related to an earlier question I had about Al-Anon. It's looking as though my friend who is attending Al-Anon is heading for separation. She has an appointment with a lawyer in two weeks to get acquainted and see what the parameters are even though he hasn't moved out yet. She and the children are getting professional counselling, and I've been keeping in touch. Once a child turns 18, is contact with the parent they don't live with entirely up to the child? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Elf Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Yes, they are a legal young adult. Even my child support stopped on my dd's 18th birthday. I've heard of the non-custodial parent paying child support for up to age 21 for a student but I don't know if that is automatically done or is an extenuating circumstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoobie Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Yes. In some states, it can be prior to that point. Or at least practically speaking if not legally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Yes after age 18 they get to decide if they want to see the parent. That is the legal part of it even if child support is extended beyond that because visitation and cs are not connected. And as a practical matter it is very very difficult to get a teen to see a parent they dont want to see. My son16 has to be forced to see his dad and my ss19 hasn't been to see Dh since he was 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Yes, but I am still allotted child support until ds turns 24 (I think) as long as he is in school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Yes, but I am still allotted child support until ds turns 24 (I think) as long as he is in school. Is that something you and your Xh agreed to or is it the state law where you live? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 Yes after age 18 they get to decide if they want to see the parent. That is the legal part of it even if child support is extended beyond that because visitation and cs are not connected. And as a practical matter it is very very difficult to get a teen to see a parent they dont want to see. My son16 has to be forced to see his dad and my ss19 hasn't been to see Dh since he was 15. That's what we thought. Two are in college and one is 17 and planning to go to college, so they're going to be deciding themselves at one point or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 That's what we thought. Two are in college and one is 17 and planning to go to college, so they're going to be deciding themselves at one point or another. Like now. If the divorce is final before the 17 year old turns 18 the judge may order visitation.....but really it will be meaningless. Even if the dad tried to force it the kid will age out before anything could be accomplished. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) nm Edited November 30, 2016 by cathey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Dss15 has said he is coming to live with us. No way we would not do it through the courts though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Even custody can become meaningless under certain circumstances. Right before my oldest ds's 16th birthday, he left to visit his bio father and the 2 of them decided ds would stay there. I decided not to fight it since we had just moved to Idaho and ds was living in SC with his bio father. My ex never even got legal custody, but anytime he called me demanding anything, I just said 'No'. Worked both ways, that distance thing. Were you super upset when your son didn't come back? Or did you feel he was in good hands with his father? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) nm Edited November 30, 2016 by cathey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I was very upset at first. But after a few months I realized that it was so much more peaceful without him because he and my dh often clashed. So I wrote to him and told him I though he had made the right decision and wished him well. My parents lived in the same small town, so I knew ds had a place to go should things go bad with bio father. After 6 months of living with his father, he moved in with my parents and finished high school and stayed with them until my brother talked him into joining the Air Force at 18yo. So it all worked out in the end. But, yes, the 'leaving' was handled very badly, IMO. I tell my other 5 kids never to leave 'badly' when they leave somewhere. It can have a negative affect on the relationship for a long time. Dss15 told his mom a full 4 weeks before he is schedule to leave to be with us. I am really proud of him for doing that because honestly she is so emotionally manipulative I know he is having a hard time dealing with her while he is still there. He has only told us 'she is not taking it well.' Dh said that means she is crying all the time and every time she looks at him. I hope he is wrong but he was married to her for 21 years so he probably knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lllll Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) nm Edited November 30, 2016 by cathey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Well, she probably is upset at losing her son, because that's probably what it feels like - right now. But the son sounds like he's done all he can do to make the move easier on all of y'all. I assume it's all gone through proper legal procedures? My ds just got on the phone with his father and the 2 of them decided a week before ds was scheduled to fly out for his summer visit that ds would not be returning. I had zero time to prepare for it, mentally or emotionally. But that was typical of my ex. She'll probably accept it eventually and calm down? Maybe in a few months .... Our attorney is working on it. Hopefully she wont fight it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) Like now. If the divorce is final before the 17 year old turns 18 the judge may order visitation.....but really it will be meaningless. Even if the dad tried to force it the kid will age out before anything could be accomplished. Sorry to jump back during another conversation, but yes, this is the concern. The older ones will make their own choices, and the last one is nearly there. By the time it all shakes out, they could be 18 or nearly 18. Awkward. Edited June 14, 2016 by G5052 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Sorry to jump back during another conversation, but yes, this is the concern. The older ones will make their own choices, and the last one is nearly there. By the time it all shakes out, they could be 18 or nearly 18. Awkward. I am sorry I thread jacked. :( But I don't think there is much to worry about with a 17 year old. In fact, that would be worth delaying the final divorce decree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tita Gidge Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 This is related to an earlier question I had about Al-Anon. It's looking as though my friend who is attending Al-Anon is heading for separation. She has an appointment with a lawyer in two weeks to get acquainted and see what the parameters are even though he hasn't moved out yet. She and the children are getting professional counselling, and I've been keeping in touch. Once a child turns 18, is contact with the parent they don't live with entirely up to the child? Best wishes to your friend and her children. :grouphug: I was told that at 18 the child is a legal adult and free to chose contact, independent of child support. I was also counseled that there have been some cases where the child was able to speak to the judge and legally break contact earlier - but that it was rare, and not preferable, even in situations with some documented abuse or neglect (the default was supervised visits). If my older kids never saw their dad again, they'd be unaffected. They don't even care enough to hate him, he just ... is a piece of furniture in their lives. He spent years neglecting those relationships and he has reaped what he sowed. The kids will spend the occasional meal with him, and I force them to go with him to amusement parks/fairs a few times each year (mostly to be with their sister and to give me a day off) but they've all unofficially agreed on having this type of relationship. If his family is in town he'll show up to their games, but he's largely uninterested in what is happening with them and in their lives. I do require a minimum level of respect towards the parent-child hierarchy that I enforce (not just the boys, ex-DH also) because they need to exist civilly for the sake of me, his parents and our daughter. We have lots of years and family events left together. But I don't force visitation or a relationship, and fortunately neither does my ex-husband. It'd be futile. It's the complete opposite with our daughter, the youngest. He attends all of her matches and makes a point to see her 3-4 days a week for a few hours. She has a bedroom at his house but only wants to spend the night when his parents or sister are in town visiting. She knows a completely different side to their dad, and feels a fierce loyalty to him. That's another reason why I require my boys to spend small snippets of time with her and their dad; I don't want her to feel the weight of ex-DH's loneliness and empty life. She leans that way by nature (very sensitive, very forgiving) and I want to avoid a codependent relationship between them. She shouldn't, but does and will, absorb the consequences of his choices and the resulting "non"-relationships with her brothers. My kids will get support through college or trade school, per our decree. It's not automatic or otherwise recognized by my state. My first lawyer didn't want to add it in and actively discouraged me by saying it wasn't done here. She said the same for him funding my retirement. I found another lawyer who didn't mind blazing a little trail "here" to get us what we deserved, even if it seemed like a long shot. And it was worth it because I got everything I asked for, including college support and a funded retirement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G5052 Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 My kids will get support through college or trade school, per our decree. It's not automatic or otherwise recognized by my state. My first lawyer didn't want to add it in and actively discouraged me by saying it wasn't done here. She said the same for him funding my retirement. I found another lawyer who didn't mind blazing a little trail "here" to get us what we deserved, even if it seemed like a long shot. And it was worth it because I got everything I asked for, including college support and a funded retirement. The lawyer is indeed a critical decision, particularly for women who have stepped away from the workplace for awhile. She does have a small retirement account and some inherited investments in only her name. But she will need someone to fight for her. I've always worked, but I chose a stepped-down career. In a similar situation, I don't know how that would shake out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tita Gidge Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 The lawyer is indeed a critical decision, particularly for women who have stepped away from the workplace for awhile. She does have a small retirement account and some inherited investments in only her name. But she will need someone to fight for her. I've always worked, but I chose a stepped-down career. In a similar situation, I don't know how that would shake out. I originally took recommendations from women friends and acquaintances - who they used, who they liked. When I looked for my second lawyer, I took a different approach. I started asking who people had gone up against, especially those who were bitter about how their divorces were handled. I searched online, too, for lawyers and divorce in my metro area and found a gold mine of people complaining and warning others about certain judges and lawyers. I used that information in reverse, to CHOOSE my lawyer. I retired from work at about the same time my divorce was taking place. I had committed to a (work) separation date before we began divorce proceedings and it was irreversible. I thought I was screwed but the second lawyer explained that it couldn't be held against me because my husband had been involved in the decision while we were still married. And then he went to bat for me. The first lawyer just told me that I'd have to return to work and figure it out. I worry about women who are emotionally fragile or dealing with outside factors (alcoholism, abuse) and just accept that kind of advice at its word. :sad: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlett Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Best wishes to your friend and her children. :grouphug: I was told that at 18 the child is a legal adult and free to chose contact, independent of child support. I was also counseled that there have been some cases where the child was able to speak to the judge and legally break contact earlier - but that it was rare, and not preferable, even in situations with some documented abuse or neglect (the default was supervised visits). If my older kids never saw their dad again, they'd be unaffected. They don't even care enough to hate him, he just ... is a piece of furniture in their lives. He spent years neglecting those relationships and he has reaped what he sowed. The kids will spend the occasional meal with him, and I force them to go with him to amusement parks/fairs a few times each year (mostly to be with their sister and to give me a day off) but they've all unofficially agreed on having this type of relationship. If his family is in town he'll show up to their games, but he's largely uninterested in what is happening with them and in their lives. I do require a minimum level of respect towards the parent-child hierarchy that I enforce (not just the boys, ex-DH also) because they need to exist civilly for the sake of me, his parents and our daughter. We have lots of years and family events left together. But I don't force visitation or a relationship, and fortunately neither does my ex-husband. It'd be futile. It's the complete opposite with our daughter, the youngest. He attends all of her matches and makes a point to see her 3-4 days a week for a few hours. She has a bedroom at his house but only wants to spend the night when his parents or sister are in town visiting. She knows a completely different side to their dad, and feels a fierce loyalty to him. That's another reason why I require my boys to spend small snippets of time with her and their dad; I don't want her to feel the weight of ex-DH's loneliness and empty life. She leans that way by nature (very sensitive, very forgiving) and I want to avoid a codependent relationship between them. She shouldn't, but does and will, absorb the consequences of his choices and the resulting "non"-relationships with her brothers. My kids will get support through college or trade school, per our decree. It's not automatic or otherwise recognized by my state. My first lawyer didn't want to add it in and actively discouraged me by saying it wasn't done here. She said the same for him funding my retirement. I found another lawyer who didn't mind blazing a little trail "here" to get us what we deserved, even if it seemed like a long shot. And it was worth it because I got everything I asked for, including college support and a funded retirement. Why do you think your dd has such a different relationship with her dad? My ds views his dad like your boys....and I also like you require a minimum of respect. I insist he go to dinner a few times a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantlion Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Is that something you and your Xh agreed to or is it the state law where you live? I don't know if it's the law, but my lawyer suggested I put that in and ex was no in position to debate the issue. He also hasn't paid a dime in child support for a plethora of reasons, but that's another story all together. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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